but Chip you got away from the wankhole which is great and fair play but a lot dont/cant. im sure the one you grew up on one its very different to what it was then to now? just out of curiousity where was it roughly? was it a typical 70's / 80's council estate which werent great but werent bad or was it an over populated somali knife weilding kosovon all in one estate crime hole (bar a few of the nice genuine ones )

i wouldnt say the ones at the top are so clever more good with words. are you meaning just islamic groups or groups in general? i mean would you in your view say Nick Griffin is clever or Hitler was clever or just good public speakers?