that too is true and I wasn't knocking anyone in particular, just a general observation. I think I was training a good 4 years before I touched gear. Admittedly I will never be a Dorian but I feel most people that start up and go on the juice quickly don't have their hearts in it anyhow. It's just another fad.

However if someone is intent on using then good advice is needed. Preferably before anything is purchased.