Had my cossie on the rollers at the weekend...
02-12-2016, 07:09 PM
#201
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02-12-2016, 10:17 PM
#202
Too many posts.. I need a life!!
03-12-2016, 08:55 AM
#203
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So in that respect I'm gonna say yes it has helped me but people ain't gonna like it and yes I'm gonna get shot down by all the haters ha ha!
But I'm not worried, everyone is entitlied to an opinion and as long as I'm happy with my car thats all that matters.
I don't wanna go aftermarket management or change the exhaust manifold really.... based on that I'm staying old school and gonna go either some kind of gt35r or possibly gt40.
I'll await the abuse lol
I'm am happy with my car as it is even though it's laggy, if I go GT35 it will be less laggy but gonna struggle past 600hp, GT40 will give me similar lag as I have now but aroumd 700hp.
I would like to go in a big power efr car still but one way I've been looking at it is it's an awesome idea if you wanna stay around 500hp as the 7064 is so good but when you get to 9180 territory they appear no worse for lag than say a good Gt40 so for the extra cost of management and a manifold all for a fun car I do a few thousand miles in a week I don't think I'd gain a that much by having to spend a lot more....
Cheers Paul
03-12-2016, 08:57 AM
#204
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here you go trev
rb26, worked head, stage 2 cams, gt40 o.85 ar
I wasn't happy it was making the numbers it should and it wasn't as fast as I expected it to be it felt like 600 hp because that's all it was
so when mark confirmed theres a good chance it will help, I went straight to a 1.06ar, I did drive it after fitting housing could instantly feel the difference and was way lean as soon as I got on boost on my wideband, so I got it mapped of hub dyno at same boost
dyno showed over 100 hp extra, and that was confirmed with my 30-130 mph times, and 1/4 mile mph went from iirc 123 mph upto 129 mph
and I only lost 300 rpm, it just felt so much better, the only difference I noticed was harder making boost of the line, once in gear moving it was much better, I was in the middle of sorting some boost build launch control on hks gear but then I had diff and 4wd issues and bought the r35 so the r33 got broke up for parts.
rb26, worked head, stage 2 cams, gt40 o.85 ar
I wasn't happy it was making the numbers it should and it wasn't as fast as I expected it to be it felt like 600 hp because that's all it was
so when mark confirmed theres a good chance it will help, I went straight to a 1.06ar, I did drive it after fitting housing could instantly feel the difference and was way lean as soon as I got on boost on my wideband, so I got it mapped of hub dyno at same boost
dyno showed over 100 hp extra, and that was confirmed with my 30-130 mph times, and 1/4 mile mph went from iirc 123 mph upto 129 mph
and I only lost 300 rpm, it just felt so much better, the only difference I noticed was harder making boost of the line, once in gear moving it was much better, I was in the middle of sorting some boost build launch control on hks gear but then I had diff and 4wd issues and bought the r35 so the r33 got broke up for parts.
Good stuff!
I see you've ran your car at abbey motorsport too
Cheers Paul
03-12-2016, 09:12 AM
#205
cossie fan (unluckerly)
Basically you haven't taken anything on bored lol I think the biggest advantage of the new set ups is the lower down huge torque you make don't think your ever get that with an older set up very easy on a yb. The cars that do have that on the big gt turbos don't just have the turbo bolted on lol. The ecu the mapping the engine spec and its internals all pay there roll
Last edited by ajamesc; 03-12-2016 at 09:25 AM.
03-12-2016, 09:56 AM
#206
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03-12-2016, 09:58 AM
#207
cossie fan (unluckerly)
That car had serious engine work stroker kit the works on marks set up. You won't get results like that without spending a hell of a lot more money than you would fitting a Borg set up I bet lol
03-12-2016, 09:59 AM
#208
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I also have one of these flow charts for my engine from when I bought the car.
Slightly different spec engine but the graph read 544hp so even more!!
I'll put it up.
I always found power was down from these charts once the engine is actually put in a car though?
Cheers Paul
Slightly different spec engine but the graph read 544hp so even more!!
I'll put it up.
I always found power was down from these charts once the engine is actually put in a car though?
Cheers Paul
03-12-2016, 10:01 AM
#209
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This came with the car when I bought it....
03-12-2016, 10:02 AM
#210
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I also have one of these flow charts for my engine from when I bought the car.
Slightly different spec engine but the graph read 544hp so even more!!
I'll put it up.
I always found power was down from these charts once the engine is actually put in a car though?
Cheers Paul
Slightly different spec engine but the graph read 544hp so even more!!
I'll put it up.
I always found power was down from these charts once the engine is actually put in a car though?
Cheers Paul
power will be lower and boost threshold later on the rollers as there more losses and engine is under more load on engine dyno so will bring the boost in quicker.
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turbotrev (03-12-2016)
03-12-2016, 10:04 AM
#211
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I wouldn't even think about putting a gt35 or a gt40 on that motor, it will be so lazy it will just ruin it imo. its lazy enough on the gt30
what size turbine housing do you currently have on there ? im guessing its big as your making massive power for a gt30
you need a lot more revs which none of plots are running to ?
Last edited by scoooby slayer; 03-12-2016 at 10:05 AM.
03-12-2016, 10:07 AM
#212
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Basically you haven't taken anything on bored lol I think the biggest advantage of the new set ups is the lower down huge torque you make don't think your ever get that with an older set up very easy on a yb. The cars that do have that on the big gt turbos don't just have the turbo bolted on lol. The ecu the mapping the engine spec and its internals all pay there roll
It's my choice and against nearly everyone's opinion but at the end of the day it's my car.
I can't compare setups as I have not been in a huge power yb or in one with modern equipment.
But I think I'll be happy with a setup similar to what I have with just more power.
It may not be as good as an mad spec/setup but I may also never find out....
Cheers Paul
03-12-2016, 10:10 AM
#213
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But it is always good to know all options and get advise too wether I choose to put it in practice is up to me
Cheers Paul
03-12-2016, 10:12 AM
#214
cossie fan (unluckerly)
I have taken it all on board mate it's just I'm choosing to go a different route.
It's my choice and against nearly everyone's opinion but at the end of the day it's my car.
I can't compare setups as I have not been in a huge power yb or in one with modern equipment.
But I think I'll be happy with a setup similar to what I have with just more power.
It may not be as good as an mad spec/setup but I may also never find out....
Cheers Paul
It's my choice and against nearly everyone's opinion but at the end of the day it's my car.
I can't compare setups as I have not been in a huge power yb or in one with modern equipment.
But I think I'll be happy with a setup similar to what I have with just more power.
It may not be as good as an mad spec/setup but I may also never find out....
Cheers Paul
03-12-2016, 10:13 AM
#215
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I wouldn't even think about putting a gt35 or a gt40 on that motor, it will be so lazy it will just ruin it imo. its lazy enough on the gt30
what size turbine housing do you currently have on there ? im guessing its big as your making massive power for a gt30
you need a lot more revs which none of plots are running to ?
what size turbine housing do you currently have on there ? im guessing its big as your making massive power for a gt30
you need a lot more revs which none of plots are running to ?
It is a very lazy gt30 which is why I've always planned to change it
Cheers Paul
03-12-2016, 11:27 AM
#217
What exhaust manifold are you using ? and is it an open or divided housing ?
Whilst I always distrust dyno graphs....a friend who races here recently made some changes ( and some poor ones through a seemingly naive "tuner" ).
But he went from an open scroll 0.82 GTX3076 to a 0.63 divided and new twin scroll setup, OEM 2wd manifold but same turbo.
This dropped him from around 650hp to 580hp, but made huge improvements at the low end.
He'll be putting a bigger turbine housing onto it again though to restore top end, and TBH I really dont see it hurting the bottom end very much at all.
Even assuming some dynos are a bit fairytale, 500hp for such a laggy build just seems bad.
But will depend exactly what turbo it is, manifold, boost control, engine etc etc
And seemingly the brand new Garrett GTX30's can extend power to a potential 700+
You say it's a GT30 hybrid....hybrid of what exactly ? Is it a proper GT30 with ext w/g or is it a mix/match in a Cossie housing or something ?
Whilst I always distrust dyno graphs....a friend who races here recently made some changes ( and some poor ones through a seemingly naive "tuner" ).
But he went from an open scroll 0.82 GTX3076 to a 0.63 divided and new twin scroll setup, OEM 2wd manifold but same turbo.
This dropped him from around 650hp to 580hp, but made huge improvements at the low end.
He'll be putting a bigger turbine housing onto it again though to restore top end, and TBH I really dont see it hurting the bottom end very much at all.
Even assuming some dynos are a bit fairytale, 500hp for such a laggy build just seems bad.
But will depend exactly what turbo it is, manifold, boost control, engine etc etc
And seemingly the brand new Garrett GTX30's can extend power to a potential 700+
You say it's a GT30 hybrid....hybrid of what exactly ? Is it a proper GT30 with ext w/g or is it a mix/match in a Cossie housing or something ?
03-12-2016, 11:40 AM
#218
Advanced PassionFord User
Thread Starter
Absolutely it's totally your choice and others can only offer advice on what there doing or have seen or in some cases have built as there the people who are the ones that create these results. But I don't think your going to improve your engine by bolting a yet bigger turbo on it don't work like that from my experience with what I'm having built rods Pistons cams head fuel system injectors manifolds inlet and exhaust intercooler mapping all play there part to make up what you want
I bet Mark and Rob are reading this thinking 'oh no' ha ha
Cheers Paul
03-12-2016, 11:42 AM
#219
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Thread Starter
I believe from what I was told there is some surge that has been mapped around, but that's not gospel as I can't quite remember tbh
Cheers Paul
03-12-2016, 11:44 AM
#220
Advanced PassionFord User
Thread Starter
What exhaust manifold are you using ? and is it an open or divided housing ?
Whilst I always distrust dyno graphs....a friend who races here recently made some changes ( and some poor ones through a seemingly naive "tuner" ).
But he went from an open scroll 0.82 GTX3076 to a 0.63 divided and new twin scroll setup, OEM 2wd manifold but same turbo.
This dropped him from around 650hp to 580hp, but made huge improvements at the low end.
He'll be putting a bigger turbine housing onto it again though to restore top end, and TBH I really dont see it hurting the bottom end very much at all.
Even assuming some dynos are a bit fairytale, 500hp for such a laggy build just seems bad.
But will depend exactly what turbo it is, manifold, boost control, engine etc etc
And seemingly the brand new Garrett GTX30's can extend power to a potential 700+
You say it's a GT30 hybrid....hybrid of what exactly ? Is it a proper GT30 with ext w/g or is it a mix/match in a Cossie housing or something ?
Whilst I always distrust dyno graphs....a friend who races here recently made some changes ( and some poor ones through a seemingly naive "tuner" ).
But he went from an open scroll 0.82 GTX3076 to a 0.63 divided and new twin scroll setup, OEM 2wd manifold but same turbo.
This dropped him from around 650hp to 580hp, but made huge improvements at the low end.
He'll be putting a bigger turbine housing onto it again though to restore top end, and TBH I really dont see it hurting the bottom end very much at all.
Even assuming some dynos are a bit fairytale, 500hp for such a laggy build just seems bad.
But will depend exactly what turbo it is, manifold, boost control, engine etc etc
And seemingly the brand new Garrett GTX30's can extend power to a potential 700+
You say it's a GT30 hybrid....hybrid of what exactly ? Is it a proper GT30 with ext w/g or is it a mix/match in a Cossie housing or something ?
I'll get some pics
Cheers Paul
03-12-2016, 11:50 AM
#221
Advanced PassionFord User
Thread Starter
What exhaust manifold are you using ? and is it an open or divided housing ?
Whilst I always distrust dyno graphs....a friend who races here recently made some changes ( and some poor ones through a seemingly naive "tuner" ).
But he went from an open scroll 0.82 GTX3076 to a 0.63 divided and new twin scroll setup, OEM 2wd manifold but same turbo.
This dropped him from around 650hp to 580hp, but made huge improvements at the low end.
He'll be putting a bigger turbine housing onto it again though to restore top end, and TBH I really dont see it hurting the bottom end very much at all.
Even assuming some dynos are a bit fairytale, 500hp for such a laggy build just seems bad.
But will depend exactly what turbo it is, manifold, boost control, engine etc etc
And seemingly the brand new Garrett GTX30's can extend power to a potential 700+
You say it's a GT30 hybrid....hybrid of what exactly ? Is it a proper GT30 with ext w/g or is it a mix/match in a Cossie housing or something ?
Whilst I always distrust dyno graphs....a friend who races here recently made some changes ( and some poor ones through a seemingly naive "tuner" ).
But he went from an open scroll 0.82 GTX3076 to a 0.63 divided and new twin scroll setup, OEM 2wd manifold but same turbo.
This dropped him from around 650hp to 580hp, but made huge improvements at the low end.
He'll be putting a bigger turbine housing onto it again though to restore top end, and TBH I really dont see it hurting the bottom end very much at all.
Even assuming some dynos are a bit fairytale, 500hp for such a laggy build just seems bad.
But will depend exactly what turbo it is, manifold, boost control, engine etc etc
And seemingly the brand new Garrett GTX30's can extend power to a potential 700+
You say it's a GT30 hybrid....hybrid of what exactly ? Is it a proper GT30 with ext w/g or is it a mix/match in a Cossie housing or something ?
normal as well as a strange sized billet comp wheel.
I'm on a tial 44mm ext waste gate with air injectors. I've already put up the boost plot from my hub dyno run and it's spot on.
I have only been making do with this turbo.
It was never specced by me of my tuner for this car
Cheers Paul
03-12-2016, 12:02 PM
#222
A cheapish change would be throw a divided housing on and sort the wastegates accordingly.
Although some of the EFR's already have a built in gate on the twin scroll...so probably more cost effective upgrade overall, even on the standard manifold
Although some of the EFR's already have a built in gate on the twin scroll...so probably more cost effective upgrade overall, even on the standard manifold
03-12-2016, 12:10 PM
#223
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They guy who had it all built and specced originally was off here (paul500) I'll find the old build thread, I have been told it's a hybrid gt30 as it has a bigger compressor housing than
normal as well as a strange sized billet comp wheel.
I'm on a tial 44mm ext waste gate with air injectors. I've already put up the boost plot from my hub dyno run and it's spot on.
I have only been making do with this turbo.
It was never specced by me of my tuner for this car
Cheers Paul
normal as well as a strange sized billet comp wheel.
I'm on a tial 44mm ext waste gate with air injectors. I've already put up the boost plot from my hub dyno run and it's spot on.
I have only been making do with this turbo.
It was never specced by me of my tuner for this car
Cheers Paul
Mark
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turbotrev (03-12-2016)
03-12-2016, 12:12 PM
#224
PassionFord Post Whore!!
What exhaust manifold are you using ? and is it an open or divided housing ?
Whilst I always distrust dyno graphs....a friend who races here recently made some changes ( and some poor ones through a seemingly naive "tuner" ).
But he went from an open scroll 0.82 GTX3076 to a 0.63 divided and new twin scroll setup, OEM 2wd manifold but same turbo.
This dropped him from around 650hp to 580hp, but made huge improvements at the low end.
He'll be putting a bigger turbine housing onto it again though to restore top end, and TBH I really dont see it hurting the bottom end very much at all.
Even assuming some dynos are a bit fairytale, 500hp for such a laggy build just seems bad.
But will depend exactly what turbo it is, manifold, boost control, engine etc etc
And seemingly the brand new Garrett GTX30's can extend power to a potential 700+
You say it's a GT30 hybrid....hybrid of what exactly ? Is it a proper GT30 with ext w/g or is it a mix/match in a Cossie housing or something ?
Whilst I always distrust dyno graphs....a friend who races here recently made some changes ( and some poor ones through a seemingly naive "tuner" ).
But he went from an open scroll 0.82 GTX3076 to a 0.63 divided and new twin scroll setup, OEM 2wd manifold but same turbo.
This dropped him from around 650hp to 580hp, but made huge improvements at the low end.
He'll be putting a bigger turbine housing onto it again though to restore top end, and TBH I really dont see it hurting the bottom end very much at all.
Even assuming some dynos are a bit fairytale, 500hp for such a laggy build just seems bad.
But will depend exactly what turbo it is, manifold, boost control, engine etc etc
And seemingly the brand new Garrett GTX30's can extend power to a potential 700+
You say it's a GT30 hybrid....hybrid of what exactly ? Is it a proper GT30 with ext w/g or is it a mix/match in a Cossie housing or something ?
Mark
03-12-2016, 12:43 PM
#225
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03-12-2016, 12:43 PM
#226
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03-12-2016, 12:54 PM
#227
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if its surgeing now and has capped boost you certainly don't want a bigger turbo as it will make it worse and boost will be reduced again, if your surgeing the engine cant consume the air its getting now so no point shoving more in there with a bigger turbo, engine needs to use more air which will all be in the head
Last edited by scoooby slayer; 03-12-2016 at 12:56 PM.
03-12-2016, 01:03 PM
#228
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the problem is if you have surge now there is no point trying to move the boost threshold left on the plot as your in the surge area, what is the spec of the head and cams ?
my yb I was told was all singing and dancing but in reality it was a virtually standard head with bd14s in it, which gave me this on a rs500 t4 turbo
bear in mind its a shonky old journal t4 9 years ago lol
was still a quick car though just had to be nailed to the limiter all the time
Last edited by scoooby slayer; 03-12-2016 at 01:06 PM.
03-12-2016, 01:03 PM
#229
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boost capped in the midrange to reduce surge, my old yb was capped to 22 psi upto 5500 rpm, the 32 psi upto 7800 rpm
if its surgeing now and has capped boost you certainly don't want a bigger turbo as it will make it worse and boost will be reduced again, if your surgeing the engine cant consume the air its getting now so no point shoving more in there with a bigger turbo, engine needs to use more air which will all be in the head
if its surgeing now and has capped boost you certainly don't want a bigger turbo as it will make it worse and boost will be reduced again, if your surgeing the engine cant consume the air its getting now so no point shoving more in there with a bigger turbo, engine needs to use more air which will all be in the head
Mark
03-12-2016, 01:08 PM
#232
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scoooby slayer (03-12-2016)
03-12-2016, 01:10 PM
#233
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sounds good and if it revs to 7500 rpm gives a 4000 rpm power window like my gtr which is piss easy to drive and stay in the power all the time without giving it death constantly lol
03-12-2016, 01:22 PM
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03-12-2016, 01:25 PM
#236
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scoooby slayer (03-12-2016)
03-12-2016, 01:26 PM
#237
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Caddyshack (03-12-2016)
03-12-2016, 01:34 PM
#238
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fair point mark I hadnt thought about that, im sure its fair to say that if paul bought the car to you it wouldn't cost the earth to tweek what he has wherever the issue is to make what hes got a better working motor
ive seen some of your gt30 plots on fairly stock motors showing almost as much hp with much much more response low down
03-12-2016, 01:48 PM
#239
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fair point mark I hadnt thought about that, im sure its fair to say that if paul bought the car to you it wouldn't cost the earth to tweek what he has wherever the issue is to make what hes got a better working motor
ive seen some of your gt30 plots on fairly stock motors showing almost as much hp with much much more response low down
ive seen some of your gt30 plots on fairly stock motors showing almost as much hp with much much more response low down
Mark
03-12-2016, 01:58 PM
#240
Happily retired
Now a graph from 1999 & a lazy old T4 but just look at the Torque spread. This was Marks early attempt at this high boost (42psi) hence high torque engine. It held the Topspeed record for a while with around 40bhp less than all the others trying for it just shows what Torque spread can do. Imagine that with an efr.
