mk3_escort

Hi guys,

I could do with swapping my 1.3CVH 4 speed to a 1.6 with 5 speed box due to a recent cam belt f**k up, my garage says it wont happen as the 5 speed box will foul the cross member and this part was curved to allow the 5 speed box on 1.6 models, is this true?

I thought that early XR3's came with a 4 speed box so could be an option?

Any help greatly appreciated

liam-rst

iTrader: (1)

i wouldnt say for deinate mate but i think your man may be chattin breeze m8, i could be wrong tho

xr2wishy

iTrader: (2)

i'm almost certain it'll fit pal.
only on the mk1 fiesta's the innerwing cutting was required.
as for crossmember, bollocks, all shells are identical, 4 speed box was chosen for smaller enginnes and to keep costs down a little.

tabetha

Lots of misinfo here, assuming you are talking escort and not fiesta.
The early shells were 100% definitely different, I have welded and cut box section on these to clear more times than I can remember, when fitting 5 speed box in early cars.
The box was never chosen to suit 1.6 or 1.3 or had anything to do with costs.
In the early days even the xr3 only had a 4 speed box, 5 speed did not exist, so was not even a cost option.
So mostly depends on year of car, but is easily identifiable by simply looking, looking at the chassis member where it is closest to the end of the box, see how much space there is, another thing to look for is how the box is held up, if it has a girder type affair going from front to rear of the engine and the mount sits on this 5 speed should be ok.
Defo by mk4 escort all should ok for 5 speed, but mk3 I've never seen one that didn't need chopping welding.
The 5th gear was simply stuck on the end of the box, making it longer.
I know for a fact the xr3 never had a 5 speed as my pops had one, in 1980, April before they were even released here in the uk, a stratos silver one.
tabetha

mk3_escort

Many thanks for the reply.

Car is a 1982 MK3 Escort, Am I right in thinking the XR3 with 4 speed box is an option then? or buy a late low mile 1.6CVH and bolt a 4 speed XR3 box to it?

Mechanics arent my strongest subject

MarkN

You can fit a five speed in an early car but, you have to bash the passenger inner chassis rail with a club hammer. The gearbox will then just slip in without touching in the inner wing. The reason for this is not because the shells are different, but because the engine was mounted in a slightly different position on early cars.

Before Feb 1982 the engine is mounted an inch closer to the passenger side, which essentially takes up all of the room that the five speed box needs. The shells themselves are not different, - its the drive shafts and engine mounts that are. On an early car the right hand driveshaft is an inch longer and the passenger side an inch shorter to allow the engine to be mounted more centrally. If you got the mounts and shafts off a later Mk3 and used these to shift the engine an inch further across to the drivers side then the five speed box will go in without bashing.

You can't swap individual shafts between pre and post feb 1982 cars as the shafts will either be under tension and pull the joints apart the first time you go over a bump, or under compression in which case the suspension won't behave properly. You must change the whole lot at once.

After Feb 1982 when the 5 speed became an option the engines were moved in all cars to create room. That's why if you look at any later Mk3 - XR3is, turbos etc, you won't see a gearbox cut out in the chassis rail.

phil_rs

iTrader: (3)

A friend of mine had an X reg xr3 with a factory option 5 speed box so it's definately possible

tabetha

The 4 speed box fitted to the carb xr3 was a boggo std 1300cc box and diff, from memory.
There was a dutch tuning firm offering 6 speed boxes that fitted in the pre 82 mk3's without mods, other than bolting a few brackets here an there, seen a few racing in 1980 in Hillegom think it was.
tabetha

iansoutham

What is this about "bashing chassis rails" from everyone?

On post 1982 cars (single-bolt strut top) the fit straight in.

On pre 1982 cars (twin-bolt strut top) you just fit the later mount and put the later shafts on (suspension geometry was set more "positive camber an castor" on early cars so shafts were different length).

My father used to run a Ford dealer when the MK3 and MK4 Escorts were NEW and when their bodyshop got a 6 month old W-reg Escort 1.3 CVH GL-spec in which had been crashed, he bought it off the owner, repaired it and put it all back together. The 5-speed gearbox had just been released @ this point and he put one of them in brand new out the crate. No cutting anything, just what I put above. The gearbox was a specific 1.3 one, so they were also available on the 1.3 as well as 1.6 models (rare on the 1.3 I will admit).

Over the years, both myself and my father have put 5-speeds in MK3 Escorts and never had to "adapt" any metalwork other than 1 where we had to elongate one of the holes on the drivers inner wing where the engine mount went through.

Hell, I've even still got a brand new "crate" 1.3 CVH engine and a new "crate" gearbox (1.6 ratios) in the garage somewhere. Supply a gear linkage and I'd have enough to put it all straight into a post 1982 Escort with no mods.

Your father was lucky to have one in April, especially as they didn't release the MK3 to the public in ANY market until August 1980. The only people who had them were Ford employees do demonstrations to dealerships. Those cars were all registered to Ford Motor Company and they did not go round dealerships until June 1980. I actually have a model CVH engine paperweight as given to dealership managers as souvenirs when the demo cars came round.

iansoutham

Interesting, the 5-speed box was not released until February 1982. Must have been one of the first.

MarkN

As I said, - you don't need to bash the chassis rail if you fit the later mounts and shafts. If you don't bother fitting these and use the pre 82 ones, it will just slip in without touching if you give it a bash - I've done it myself, but the best way is defintely to swap the shafts etc over and fit it properly.

Interestingly this change did not co-incide with the swap from two bolt to single bot strut tops. The struts changed in May '83. The mounts and shafts changed in Feb 1982.