FAST FORD

Recently ive had a very strange starting issue with my old girl. It started a few days back pulling up to fill up with petrol , came to restart and it turned over but wouldnt fire up , tried once or twice and it was the same. Pushed her out the way and checked the dizzy cap the points were a touch " chalky " so i scratched them clean with a screwdriver and also touched the rotar arm while i was there , put it back on started first time !

This weekend ive bought a new dizzy cap and rotar arm and had them fitted beliving the olds items to have been tired (addmitedly they didnt look good !) alls been fine all weekend , drove to the missis and run about , went to work in her today , come to start up going home from work and its done the same thing again, tried bump starting it and it wouldnt have it , it was turning over just not sparking up.

Popped the bonnet took a look inside the dizzy all was ok as you would expect , replaced the dizzy tried again and it started sweet as a nut ! lol

Ive had my spark plugs out tonight and they look ok if not a touch worn but when its running its running nice and smoothly (engine has only 75k) so cant be a problem there , cleaned them and checked the gaps just to be sure tho and all was ok.

Put plugs back in , fired up brilliant ! had to adjust the gaps a touch so i thought that could have been it ... switched off gave it a minute or two tried again , and the same problem ! couldnt belive it , gave it a minute or so again and tried and it started brilliant again ! , waited again ... no go .... gave it 30 seconds this time and it started ok !

Could anyone pleaseeee explain this to me as iam out of ideas and obviously dont want to go to far in the car as it is at the momment.

For note , plugs and leads are back on in correct order and it isnt the old " temporaily flooded " thing you some times also get from the XR3i , when you miss slip the ignition and have to wait a minute or so before restarting ... as ive had this also in the past , when this happens you dont even get it turning over , just all your red dash lights up and not a sound , until its been stood a min or two then it restarts ok. This is a diffrent problem ( been owning Mk4 XR3is for 12 years ) but this problem escapes me, any help is really appreciated ! Thanks in advance

FAST FORD

Just for note btw , a week or two previous to the starting problem , i was on my way to work and all of a sudden i felt a loss of power as if the car had jumped out of gear , i dipped the clutch as if to put it back in 4th , was only doing 30-40 normal road, and the engine stalled ( it hadnt jumped out of gear btw) , i pulled up and gave it a momment racking my brain and tried restarting and it did so just fine straight away. I put some fuel treatment in , designed to clean your jets beliving it to be a peice of shite coming through mommentarly making it miss a beat and stalling it.

Thought id mention it not sure if it has any relevance to the starting problem.

haz87

it 'could' be the ignition amplifier? are the wires a bit worn going to it? as removing the distributor cap etc could disturb them. Its a real long shot. If not it could be the unit itself. Is it definitly lacking a spark? Not a lazy starter or anything like that no?

tabetha

The "chalky", you describe is nothing to worry about and does NOT affect performance.
I would check the earths especially on the ignition amp, and also make sure it is stuck on where necessary with heat sink compound, check all connectors also, but it does sound like something overheating, or a dodgy wire being disturbed.
tabetha

SafeChav

when the fautl happens does the fuel pump run while you are cranking.

Not interested in priming what so ever so dont even mention it

FAST FORD

Thanks for the input folks ...

Speaking to a mate of mine who owns a garage ( altho isnt an auto electrician ) thinks the problem could possible start at the Ignition Coil , ive got a spare in the shed ive just dug out , so ill fit that and see if it happens again. Failing that it could be the HT lead from the coil to the dizzy ... possibly. Im a mechanical fitter for a living and ive been speaking to some of the other fellas at work as well as my mechanic mate and were all scratching our heads other than that , i did think that possible the fuel pump wasnt working but yesterday after regaping and cleaning the spark plugs my mate said he could hear the exhaust pur slightly for a momment , as it was trying to kick up but there was something holding it back ... ie: no spark, so i belive the fuel pump to be working fine. When it didnt start the other night coming out of work , when it did start it ran perfectly sweet as a nut , so again i dont think it is the fuel pump.

Keep the ideas surgestions coming please folks and thanks again ! all appreciated

SafeChav

you NEED to listen for the fuel pump next time when you are cranking the engine, it will tell you a lot about where to be looking.

FAST FORD

Ok tried my spare coil and the same thing again , starts then it dosnt.

Refitted old one , got it running then had a woddle with all the spark plug leads , HT lead and the coil positive and negitive wires... in the hopes that a loose/broken connection would be found ... but the engine kept purring sweet as anything.

All the times it started i heard the fuel pump prime , the electronic buzz as it kicked in. Also tried turning the ignition just before it should fire up and the pump also primed again, without turning the key full for it to fire up.

After running it , i tried again to hear the pump by turning it again all the way without atempting to fire up and i didnt hear the buzz of the fuel pump come in , but when turning all the way it still fired up.

Ive just tried several stop starts giving approx 2-3 mins in between and its started each and every time. Altho the engine is now warm.

Which is leading me to think it could possibly be a cold starting problem ?

Is there anyway of identifying this ? .... any other ideas welcome as im only guessing now.

Thinking of giving Pro Tune at Jacksdale a ring tomorrow , as ive had tune ups and other injection faults identified from them and sorted before. Last one being the anti stall valve under the dash.

SafeChav

Seriously trying to help here mate but you need to read what im saying.....

FAST FORD

Listern for the priming " buzz " sound when its turning over but NOT firing up ???

Tbh i dont think i did hear it Buzz whilst it wasnt firing up ill have to try and get it to " fault " and not start again , and have a listern.

Do you mean the BUZZ as it primes ? or are you reffering to another noise as its trying to fire up ?

FAST FORD

Ok had a good chat with Safe Chav on MSN and the finger seems to be pointing at the IGNITION MODULE.

Ill be sourcing one this week , hopefully a new one from Just Fords ( brand new , old stock items ) , fingers crossed it works !

Thanks for your time and input Safe and nice Orion btw

FAST FORD

Had a word with the fellas at Pro Tune in Jacksdale today and he says it could be the ignition module OR the Pink Injection Relay underneath the dash , any ideas input on that folks ?

Im not going to be able to acctually do anything till the weekend so still weighing up what parts ill need to get in.

Cheers !

rigwrecker

had same problem a few years ago wi an orion 16i mfi tried new plugs new leads new dizzy cap fuel filter still made no difference turned out to be dodgy connections on fuel pump

FAST FORD

By that do u mean the EARTH connections ? or the electric connections from the ignition ?

FAST FORD

Had a play around with the pink relay and checked the fure in the fuse box under the bonnet , gave the Pinkie a wodell and nothing a miss kept running fine , always tweaked all the wires in that area checking from broken connections whilst running , and again all ok.

I think SafeChav may have hit it on the head with the Ignition Module ( black box on the underside front of the distributor ) Is that what u fellas were reffering to as the Ignition Amp(lifier) ? or did you mean the Ignition Coil ? ( the pack the HT lead runs too, on the right of the engine bay) just out of intrest.

Taking the car down to Pro Tune friday evening , as he has a Pink relay and a Ignition Module already , so we can have a change around and see if anything happens.

SafeChav

got your MSN message yesterday mate, without being rude you need to try what ive suggested, theres no point playing around with fuel pump relays and alike, that wont stop it sparking!!!

And this fuse you got suggested to try, be interested to know which one that was because there aren't any fuses that intervene running on the N/A engines

FAST FORD

Check your fuse box mate , its a 20A fuse ( yellow ) the icon in its postion which is the one the fella surgested i check is a circle with " INJ " in it , which i asume stands for INJECTION.

Either way , a fuse is a fuse and if its not blow should opperate normally.

Phoned just Ford today , just got to find out the position of the mounting bolts of the Ignition Module for the one i have , but they have all sorts in stock , there priced around Ł20-30 he said , so im gonna have a run on Saturday and get a new one on

Was that a none refundable gurrenttee u gave me mate ? lol

Well see if it does the trick mate FINGERS CROSSED

SafeChav

Thats for the fuel pump

The only thing fused on that is the permenant feed to the fuel pump relay

FAST FORD

Okay , set up to have a crack at sorting things out this morning.

First off took off the Injection Module and found that it was oiled up a touch inbetween the plates AND on the connecting plug , a good spot of oil in there !

So ... theres still a bit of the paste thats use to meet both surfaces of the module to the dizzy so i clean up the oil , like most CVH engines its a touch " sweaty " with some oil ( not a horror picture lol ).

Im thinking that oil is NON CONDUCTABLE ? so perhaps this oil is causing the car not to start on occasions , the plug in particular was pretty heavy wtih oil so ... along those lines after cleaning up i try starting it from cold.

Fired up ok , gave it 1 minute , fired it up again ... repeated this 10 times to check for any problems from starting cold ... and it started everytime.

After this ive taken it for a run for some petrol as im down to 1/4 a tank , nice 40 min drive there and back ( also help charge the battery after all the cold starts ) , then tried starting the same procedure again , but obviously this time with a hot engine.

Tried this around 5-6 without a problem ...

So i guess its safe to presume that the oil in the joining plate on the Modulator and the plug wernt helping.

Ill give it a week and see how it goes , but so far the signs are good.

SafeChav

Injection module?

Modulator?

Oil on contacts shouldn't stop them conducting

FAST FORD

Same thing .. lol

I wouldnt have thought youd get GOOD conductivity with alot of oil on the plug lead ?

Either way its " ok " atm

SafeChav

but wtf is an injection module/modulator??????

The only time oil will really cause a massive issue is when a spark is involved, otherwise it should be a massive problem.

FAST FORD

Injection Module is on the underside of the Distributor.

Which has to have a perfect connection to the distributor, the oil on the meeting faces of them has a paste to ensure a perfect connection.

This was partically contaminated with engine oil, theres also a plug lead that comes off the Injection Module that had oil in it quietly heavily.

After cleaning these out i did the above ...

And its been alright since

SafeChav

i think you will find thats your ignition module!

No such thing as an injection module on a N/A MFI engine

Best of luck anyway!

FAST FORD

thats what i meant to say paint me yellow and call me bannas ! lol

Ignition Module lol


Anyhow .... alls well so far *touches wood*

Thanks for all tips and advice folks