big_wasa

Thought I would stick up a little vid of my Frankenstein Budget Zetec Turbo first breath.

Edit, for some reason the first vid has vanished. This is the update.


History, I bought an st170 with the intention of turning it into a track car. I wanted more power than standard and I've done a lot of work with running fords on the Oem ecu. Due to life getting in the way the St rotted away beyond repair but I decided to finish the Zt project.

This is the mock up Spec, I have parts for 2.

Basic 2.0 Black top Zetec. ( will fit thicker head gasket and st170 valve springs ).
Td04 Turbo from a Hawkeye Subaru Impreza.
Mk1 Focus Rs engine management.

A standard map and boost and I expect a similar power and Torque figure to that of a focus Rs. So 220bhp ish and I think the Zetec will hold this just fine.

Stage 2.

I am already building an st/Rs turbo Zetec hybrid with a stage 1 map to give me a safe 260 ish bhp.

I will do a build thread with ecu pin outs if there is any interest.

james kiely

iTrader: (5)

look forward to updates mate .your engine stand/test bench is a work of art

bagginsRSturbo

iTrader: (1)

That is cool, look forward to the updates

The Black Count

Wish mine was running, one day I hope

You say going to fit thicker head gasket and valve springs so is the engine standard?
If I was starting again I would forget st blocks and thicker gaskets and just fit forged rods and pistons to the standard engine

what car is it going in?

big_wasa

What's it going in is a good question.

It was going in an st170 that I had stripped for the track. It rotted away faster than a bean tin in the North Sea.





The engine above is a completely standard £100 eBay Zetec. Still on its original cambelt until next week end.

It needs valve springs to stop valve float. So I will drop the cr a point or two with a thicker gasket. Only other thing if needs is a set of arp rod bolts and it should be a cheap 220 bhp motor.

This is a mock up engine. I've also got a 49k st bottom end with new rings and bearings. New head, new sump, recon Gt25 and so on.
I am hopping for 260 from this with a remap.

I have an st220 on the drive. I've had it a year and havnt touched it. Think I will move it on and get another St170. I have a track day itch.


I usually start these things by picking up,an ecu and loom and working it back.

First thing is check I've been sold the matching key with the ecu and I am able to turn the Immobilizer of/on.

The Black Count

Hello, are you actually getting valve float?
Reason I ask is that we had problems with the st springs and I was advised at that power level they would not be required.

The price of thick head gaskets is very high and should anything go wrong you may end up buying more than one hence I now believe its not a good way to go, I would sell the st engine and put decent rod and pistons in the standard engine.

good luck finding a solid focus cheap, out of the 4 I have bought 2 were rotten 1 was good and the last I have not looked at yet. Funny though the best one was the cheapest at £90 so it is possible

Thanks

bassboy

Interested in this project as I am also building a cheap zetec turbo to lump in the Orion for a time pass...but I'm keeping it bone stock 1.8 and not running big boost...even if I see 150-160hp ill be more than happy...anything more than the 1.3OHV engine can currently churn out will be a bonus!

Do you have the Finish/part number for the thicker head gaskets? I was contemplating going down this route, but I haven't looked into it too much...one thing you have reminded me on though is to buy a new timing belt kit and water pump just for the sake of doing it!

big_wasa

No way of knowing on the bench but the reading I've done says that float occurs early. What problems are you having with the st springs ?


Yes the gasket was stupid money. It was £141 pre brexit. I say pre brexit as it came over from Germany via my local ford dealer. Renault bits have g

To be honest I wouldn't bother again. A 1.3 mm Victor reinz is around £20

Thing is with going forged, where do you stop.

big_wasa

I will dig it out but if I was doing it again I would use the 1.3mm Vr gasket

The Black Count

Hello again
After fitting the valve springs the valves would not open, there may be different ones for inlet and exhaust which I got muddled, was advised to put the standard ones back in and worry about it later if it became a problem.

I also paid near £150 for the head gasket and with £200 for an st170 engine I now believe it would have been better to have done something to the pistons, RS ones do come up for sale or even Vauxhall ones or spend that little bit more and get aftermarket ones.

It is my understanding that a standard engine will work fine at low boost with decent mapping so instead of buying decomp plates or thicker gaskets and an oem ecu the money might be better spent on an aftermarket ecu like a megasquirt

just a thought

bassboy

The last paragraph there is also my understanding, low boost applications should be ok with decent mapping...my engine will be run on VEMS v3 (http://www.vems.com/featured-product/ecu-vems-v3.html) and will hopefully mapped on the rollers before being taken out on the road for fine fettling.

I'm definitely not after big numbers or big boost...its a peanut build designed to give the car a bit more of a shove in the back than the tiny 50hp or so it probably has right now

I think I'm gonna stick to my guns and keep everything stock and just see how we get on....theres a monster engine waiting to be built once I collect all the parts so this will just see me by for now and satisfy my turbo chatter needs LOL

big_wasa

St170 valve springs are two different lengths. This is a problem on my new crate head as the cams are not the same as my older black top.

Standard Bt Zetec springs are all 44.5mm long.

The st170 Has two spring lengths.

Inlet 45mm

Exhaust 47mm

The 47mm are coil binding at just before full lift on both inlet and exhaust.

All lengths approximate

The cams are stamped as sports cams and are a blank that are sold to people like kent cams and ford. They have a model number that is similar to that used in a homelegated race series. But not marked up as kent. May be ford saved them for something special ?








Either way, one cam has more lift. I have two sets of springs so its not a problem.

New Rs pistons are no longer available. I should have had a set when they where. Oem rods havnt been available for a long time.

In my opinion the oem zetec rods are the weaker link than the pistons so making them weaker by reaming them to take used Gm pistons is more of a bodge than the st bottom end.

An Rs engine can be had for around a grand but a refresh with a new water pump won't be cheap. Fully forging a zetec is going to cost simlar money with machine work unless you can do this your self.

The deal with the Rs ecu is, you spec the engine to something like the rs and you plug and play. This will make it through an mot and will run like oem. It's a budget way of doing it.

Even with Ms or any after market engine management unless you're building and mapping the ecu as intended with megasquirt then you will soon be spending £500+ on the ecu same again mapping it. A little more for taking it back for tweeks then there are a couple of days of work and the transport to and from you mapper.

Any one can have 500hp if you check book will open that far. My 260 target is beer money and gets me away from the shit tv the wife watches.

studabear

Great thread this, I must have got lucky with my ST170 valve springs into new crate blacktop head, I don't remember keeping them in any specific order when i swapped them all over.

big_wasa

I would be interested to know what the batch of crate engines where intended for ?

studabear

I purchased my head about 4 years ago via a ebay seller breaking crate engines. I can't ever recall seeing any writing on my cams, it not to say they haven't. I'm quite intrigued and might whip the cam cover off and have a look when the car is back with me.

(Be a good opportunity to get some oil around the cams after not running for 9 months)

bassboy

Are the crate engines still available? I used to see them all the time on ebay but haven't seen any recently? I'm looking to buy one early next year but has to be 2.0L

big_wasa

You should still get one from Gbs or Raceline but they are no longer £600

The Black Count

retro ford sell them for £1000 plus shipping

Kerbus

Big wasa, I'm soon to be starting the process of swapping an st170 into my p100 running oem ecu keeping the injection and vvt. I've got the whole car at my disposal so was gunna pull everything out Inc fuel system. Pretty confident that I can get it to run in it from all the research I've done (90% of it being your threads and comments) and I seem to remember you selling looms? Is that something you still do?
Ta
Kerby

big_wasa

Hi,

I've done a loom or two over the years but unfortunately I just don't have anytime to do any more. I don't get much time to do anything anymore.


The best tip I can give you is to do one circuit at a time.

I.e.
Injectors are one common switched 12v and four earths to the ecu.
Coil is another switched 12v and two earths to the ecu.

And so on

big_wasa

So, I had to put a belt on before it let go. It was shagged.






And I needed some sort of exhaustdown pipe for the o2 sensors.



I was pleased with that and the silencers to keep the neighbors happy. But due to lack of materials and the fact it's just for testing the bit of in between is a bit cobbled together.



So with that done I ran it up to temp.

Thermostat housing is leaking.

eBay fuel pump makes loads of noise.

St170 flywheel is noisy.

Needs a new exhaust manifold gasket.

bassboy

Any idea what they are selling for now?

Thing is, I need a head (but currently debating using a ST170 head and going to town with it)...and all the various fitting bits from the bottom end - all the nuts, bolts, sump, pick up pipe, water pump, oil pump, pulleys etc....not sure if its cheaper to just buy everything separately or maybe just source a second hand 2L block and reuse what I can...

big_wasa

Around a grand, there can't be many left.

Part of the drop in compression is to do with the volume of the Blacktop head with the thicker gasket.

Using the st head.

You will probably want to delete the vvt.

You will need a custom inlet manifold as the st has the inlet ports 10mm higher than the Blacktop. The st manifold will be no good boosted with the dual stage plenum.

The Blacktop already flows plenty when boosted.

There is some suggestion to say that less metal around the valves doesn't do the head any favours with high boost.

Seanoc84

would you be able to offer me some advice about using a standard mk1 rs ecu.

it will eventually be going into a mk5 fiesta zetec s but I will be getting it all together with a st170 loom.

need a little advice with some things.

any help would be appreciated.

big_wasa

Give us a clue then. What do you want to know ?

Seanoc84

Looking through tis it looks like I can use the st170 loom with the focus rs ecu however there are obviously a few wiring issues as regards to the boost solenoid.

Most of the engine wiring is identical, I wanted to know whether it was a simple case of changing the pinout on the rs ecu so I can reuse the knock sensor and convert it to a boost sensor.

you know your stuff as regards to these oem ecu conversions and would like to be able to have a chat with you if you’d be happy to do that.

Thanks.

big_wasa

I need to have check but there are several pin changes needed but yes you can just move the pins around.

You pull the red cover from the front and the black plastic hood from the rear. It’s just a case of gently lifting the locking tab and pulling the pin out the back.

I have an Rs loom but due to value I wouldn’t chop it up. The loom on the engine above is an st. I bought a few from a breaker a couple of years ago.

I will do the pin outs and all the bits needed. I need to have a clear out first. Should have another project next Wednesday.

Seanoc84

Just 1 more thing, will an rs ecu work if I have the ecu and the key, do I need the transponder ring meant for the ecu or will any ring work, as long as it’s wired in correctly.

I want to buy an rs ecu but it doesn’t have the immobiliser ring and I don’t want to buy it if it’s not going to work.

big_wasa

No the ring isn’t matched to the ecu. You can use one from a Mondeo, Focus, cougar ect.

It does want to be a similar age. Silver top Mondeo, Escort ect are a differant frequency.

Sensors are mostly out of fords part bin so can be bought with out the Rs tax.

Seanoc84

Brilliant thanks for your help.

big_wasa

No problem

Seanoc84

Do you know where I can get a complete pinout diagram for the mk1 rs.

just need to workout the pin differences so I can move the required pins around to get my loom to work correctly.

big_wasa

You can use a couple of programs like ford tis and auto data but they may have multi options per pin and they don't always have the limited edition and high spec cars.

Ive already posted up the St170. I've just got a few loose ends and a little testing to do and I will post the Rs up.

Seanoc84

I’ve managed to get the rs ecu, keyfob and wiring loom.

i now just need to figure out what i need to connect to the main fusebox in order to get it running properly.

I don’t know whether it’d be easier to modify the plug to use my current fiesta mk5 fusebox or just get a focus fusebox.

Either way I’m going to have to modify the connection to the engine bay fuse box.

st220kyle

Have you got a build thread or pics of your project? I also have a mk5 fiesta zetec s which i would like to do something with like a zetec turbo conversion in the future. Ive been told elsewhere it would be too much work and money so would be good to see what you've done. I'm not that keen on the puma conversion.

Seanoc84

I haven’t got any pictures yet, I’ve currently done the full st170 front and rear disc conversion.

im debating using a ib5 box with rear starter as that will only mean that I have to fabricate 1 engine mount or use the stronger mtx75 with cable change, but will require a lot more work.

just to give you a heads up, if you just wanted to use the 2.0 blacktop out of the focus the 60 pin ecu from the 2.0 is a straight swap for the fiesta 60 pin ecu.

that was my original plan as it’s as straight forward as a puma conversion but not as common with much more potential for further improvements.

big_wasa

I don’t think I would use the Rs fuse box loom. I would graft it onto the fiesta loom.

What engine have you got in the fez ?

Seanoc84

Currently have the original 1.6 engine in it.

I just need to figure out what I need to connect to in order to get the power to the ecu and fuel pump relay.

its a little beyond me this but I’ve got a version of tis which with a little time I should be able to get it sorted.

big_wasa

Any ideas on your fez ecu code ?

I’ve done one with the code......Ford Fiesta 1.6 Sport Zetec SE Ecu code CHCA

60Pin ecu

1)—Orange—12v perm live for ecu Memory.
2)—Black—Knock sensor.
3)—White/blue—Vss speed sensor plug pin 2.
4)--White/black—Tacho output.
5)--White/green—Immobilizer aerial (Pats).
6)—Black/blue—Ac high pressure switch.
7)—Black—Engine coolant temperature sensor (Ect).
8)—Purple/black—Fuel pump monitor.
9)—Brown/blue—Mass air flow meter (Maf).
10)—Purple/blue—Ac.
11)—Black/orange—Canister purge valve.
12)—Black—Injector 1.
13)—Black/blue—Engine fan relay.
14)—Black—Injector 4.
15)—Black—Injector 2.
16)—Black/yellow—Chassis earth.
17)—White—Data link connector (Dlc) pin 13.
18)—Blue/white—Data link connector (Dlc) pin 10.
19)—Grey/purple—Data link connector (Dlc) pin 2.
20)—Black—Chassis earth separate from pins 16+40+60.
21)—Black—Idle control valve.
22)--.
23)—Black—Knock sensor.
24)—Black—Cam position sensor pin1.
25)—White/purple—Air temperature sensor (Act).
26)—Black—Throttle position sensor (Tps) 5v (yellow).
27)--
28)—Black/yellow—Power steering pressure.
29)--
30)—Black—Cam position sensor pin2.
31)—Black/white—Hi speed fan relay.
32)—Black/blue—Starter motor inhibit relay.
33)—Black/Yellow—Pre cat O2 sensor.
34)—Black—Injector 3.
35)—White—Instrument cluster.
36)—White/red—Data link connector pin7.
37)—Purple/yellow—Switched 12v.
38)—Grey/orange—Immobilizer aerial (Pats).
39)—Black/orange—Immobilizer status Led.
40)—Black/yellow—Chassis earth.
41)--
42)--
43)—Brown/white—Clutch pedal position switch.
44)—White—Pre cat O2 sensor.
45)—Black—Alternator.
46)—Brown/red—Sensor common.
47)—Black__Throttle position sensor.
48)—White/red—Post cat O2 sensor.
49)--
50)—White/Blue—Mass air flow meter.
51)—Black/blue—Post cat O2 sensor.
52)—Black/blue—Instrument cluster Mil.
53)—Black/blue—Fuel pump relay switched earth.
54)—Black/yellow—Ac.
55)—Black—Crank position sensor (Cps) pin 2.
56)—Black—Crank position sensor (Cps) pin 1.
57)—Purple/yellow—switched 12v.
58)—Black/orange—Coil pin 1.
59)—Black/green—Coil pin 3.
60)—Black/yellow—Chassis earth.

Seanoc84

That’s the ecu it’s currently running.

the rs ecu is 104 pin but hopefully by Wednesday I’ll have the rs ecu and loom to start labelling it up ready for the confusion to start