gjh

With modern mapping they can probably control the fuel flow at lower RPMs is my guess.

Looking good Rod! Wouldn't know where to start with that wiring diagram pic!

Jay,

iTrader: (4)

Nkice to hear your on the mend young was wondering why we aint seen you for a cupa for a while

Mark Shead

On Rods last set up it was running 8 750cc injectors so 1500cc per cylinder full on and no staging and 1.9co on tickover,
This set up will have 1000cc on and 1700cc staged so not working till about a bar so will be no problems.

Mark

Rod-Tarry

Just seen that Mark has answered but a few tech facts.

Injectors are rated at 43psi. In a Cossie we run 51psi so a given injector will flow more than its quoted cc/min. As we add Boost that rises so at 4 bar its at 109psi. This means we can use smaller injectors than a car running 2 bar of Boost making the same Power. Don't make your Brain hurt Dojj I will explain that all very soon. I have 8 injectors & 4 will be 1000cc whatever Power we run so Mark may be able to make them work rather well . Please remember its 2015 not 1989 & we have electronics & hardware not available back then.

dojj

iTrader: (3)

i was not aware you were running 8 injectors, but to make my brain not hurt:

4 are for normal stuff and the extra ones are the back up when they are needed

because the pressure is higher they do more fuel in the same time

and due to having the technology, the way they are being used is more controllable than it was back in the day

just say yes if that's the basics and no if it's not and i'll try to figure it out as we go along, everything else will need 5 pages worth of explanations otherwise

Rod-Tarry

YEP!!!

Tev

iTrader: (2)

All very interesting, keep the updates coming!!

scoooby slayer

iTrader: (4)

good to hear your cracking on with it again rod

Kevin_Mc

I'll be subscribing to this thread, best of luck with it Rod & Mark. I never understand why Rod gets so much crap on threads here, i'm more of a lurker than a poster though so it could be over my head.

Sorry to hear about the depression, it's not nice to go through. I suffered with it for about a year before getting to the point where i had to do something - thankfully that was recognise the problem and go to my doctor where i was prescribed some medication and, more importantly, counselling. I came off the tablets a few weeks before i finished the counselling and feel better for it. I have real enthusiasm for things again and can actually see a future instead of being stuck in a swamp of shite. Still got a way to go but i have renewed energy to concentrate on fitness and life in general.

Anyway, enough about me - as said - best of luck

Rod-Tarry

Big day today.


11th Anniversary of first 200mph run & also my official im 'old now' 70th Birthday. Seems a lifetime ago & how things have changed back then all bhp & how fast can we go, now for most, is it standard it must stand in a barn for 20 years to be the real deal & please don't drive it fast . From Petrolheads to pansies in a decade.

Kevin_Mc

Many happy returns btw

natehall

iTrader: (2)

wow, I love this thread, its blowing my mind reading technical facts rather than the usual B/S my cars cleaner than your competitions...

Im currently learning electronics, and the biggest things that confuse me, is how can you accurately predict that the pump is good for 173 lb/hr at 18v, is this from the datasheets or calulated?

Does it take the additional friction generated out of the equation?

Few Quick calcs of my own..

119lb/hr / 13.5v = 8.82lb/hr per Volt

8.82lb/hr x 18 Volts = 158.76 lb/hr at 18v..

This is of course assuming a linear relationship between voltage out pump output.

Given this, you would need tu run near 20V to get your requisite fuel output.. Or am I missing some obvious facts..

The only way I can get close to your stated figure, is if the pump is rated for 129lb/hr at 13.5 volts, or you have miscalculated using ~12.5 volts for the voltage at 119lb/hr

Also at a quck look, I can only find that the pump is rated to 18V in total..

smiley

Petrol heads to pansies happy birthday rod

Caddyshack

Happy Birthday Rodders!

Rod-Tarry

Great someone asking questions .
Most of the calcs are just maths using the bsfc as you seem to have grasped.
However you have seized on the part that needs explanation.
I had the following P1 pump info from its flow charts.


P1 @13.5v flows 385 kg/hr at a pressure of 109psi (3.5bar fuel pressure +4.0 bar boost)
1 kg/hr of fuel rate = .31 Imperial gall/hr fuel rate.
using that equation 385kg/hr = 119gall/hr .


To find fuel flow when Voltage is increased I took to the net & found the research done by Kenne Bell a leading light in Fuel Pump Voltage Boosting. There research found that each 1V increase in pump Voltage resulted in a 10% increase in flow. So 13.5v to 18.5v ( 37% increase ) gave a 50% increase in pump flow.


Apply that figure & 119gall/hr would rise to 178.5 gall/hr if Voltage was increased from 13.5v to 18.5v.


Trust that explains my figures & why Volt & flow volume are not linear.

PF Ben

iTrader: (1)

Welcome back Rod, sorry to hear you felt rough I had a touch of PTS a few years back - admitting there's something wrong is the first step to recovery.

I have a question about the nitrous set up and specifically the map. Did you have two maps ie. one with gas one without? Or just one map suited for gas? If yes to either, how was the map altered to suit gas and how did the car drive on the map when you didn't use the gas?

Thanks,

Ben

Mark Shead

Hello Ben the Nos was a wet system so no changes are needed other than to check for dett and there was no need for retard on it even when running 150hp of it.

Mark

PF Ben

iTrader: (1)

Thanks Mark much appreciated - so the map is as "aggressive" in ignition etc as it would have been had you not been using gas? The little I read had me thinking a map with gas would be different to one without. .. thats even better for my thoughts then!

Thanks again

Ben

Mark Shead

The jets that cone with it are not anywhere near close to being right near on bore was so that was a big change.
We never had any problem with boost on Rods but I did set a t34 car up and the boost would go up when nos was on strangely.

Mark

PF Ben

iTrader: (1)

Okay thanks Mark.

costina

iTrader: (1)

Ben your not are you?

Paul

opposite lock

iTrader: (3)

Great thread . Good thing is with the Cosworth is the diversity of them. Immaculate ownership looked after for all or a majority of its life so far, For what they were back then , or simply mind boggling maths working out technical stratagies to warrant 1000hp . Cannot wait to see this unfold .

Mike

natehall

iTrader: (2)

I also love a good technical conversation, like I say im only learning about these things in a automotive world but very infrequently

Thats very interesting I had assumed it would not be linear but from my experience percentages go down when pushed harder as products are designed to work in the sweet spot at the set voltage.

I havent heard of Kenne Bell before, and I would be very interested in seeing the figures from your car when its completed and if they verify the calculations

PF Ben

iTrader: (1)

Paul, I may be - just as a pre full boost assister more than a power adder (although another 30-40bhp would be nice)! Cheaper than going BW and aftermarket ECU that's for sure (not going to spend more monopoly money numbers on the car as thinking of emigrating).

Anyway sorry Rod back to you. Oh and PS there are still petrolheads in the scene, I think you need to come along to some old Ford meets - much hooliganism still goes on with that crowd! ; )

Rod-Tarry

I already run my car at 16v via an accuvolt the Fuel pumps work better & the increased spark from the cdi ignition amp is also boosted no down sides. Think of Voltage increase then Flow increase one is a Volume one is not then perhaps the Maths & the increases will fall into place.

Rod-Tarry

Maybe but im not seeing much with the Cossies. They could now enter Vmax or Terminal Velocity like the old Daddy Thrashes & its all laid on but there are almost zero cars now.

Caddyshack

To compete there you need 800 plus bhp and you would be up against cars with very good launch control as standard and brilliant drag co efficients. You don't need to do that much to a Nissan Gtr to crack 200 mph...maybe a remap, exhaust and possibly a turbo swap? I think someone cracked 200 at bringers with 580bhp?

Rod-Tarry

Only 25 cars have ever topped 206mph in 15 years at VMax so its still rare to pull mega speeds.


630bhp is the best at Brunters for 200mph I know of its around 710 for a Cossie. Its not about winning its about setting a PB & proving the car has the Power or maybe a chance to outrun your mate as cars go 2 at a time. A genuine 600bhp Cosworth will pull 190 down Brunters that will get you in the top 10 at most Vmax & in the Top 6 fastest Cossies ever. There are cars running sub 150mph but still having a great day & pleased if they beat the 148 they did last time. Only the Ford GT represents Ford which is sad.

ajamesc

I with out doubt want to see what mine will do once back lol

opposite lock

iTrader: (3)

Whats the specs on distance vs MPH . At 100mph where was it in relation to 1 1/2 Miles. What is the average speed overall? do you run a gforce meter?

Mark Shead

I have started the build. Today was 2 hours on the head and another 2 poss tomorrow then Thursday and Friday the full day.

Mark

Rod-Tarry

And there was me thinking you never read your diary . I had completely forgotten it was starting today .

ajamesc

Dose that mean mine is moving up the que

Rod-Tarry

Over 180 at half mile a tad over 200 at the mile the last half a mile takes only 8 secs at that speed . Running past 210 will be difficult because if we run 1.5 miles there is only 320metres in which to avoid being killed. You do realise many peeps ( who aint got a clue) call it boring .

Rod-Tarry

If we hit the mile in 25 secs that's an average speed of 144mph.

Caddyshack

Agree but there is a MASSIVE difference between cracking 200 and then 206. I know you know...what extra power do you need to get from 200 to 206 plus the extra revs? And lots of extra space?

Rod-Tarry

Yes hit 200mph at the mile & your still well short of 210 at 1.5 miles.

Rod-Tarry

With the build under way we have made a decision to use FTW Purple & not Methanol that will mean less Power but the decision follows advice from Andy Forrest to quote - ' Methanol is a different game altogether, great if you can nail the tune on it but that's quite tricky in my experience.' . Andy suggest Purple is no more difficult to tune than C85 or E98 but will make 5-10% more Power than any other race fuel he has tried. Mark made the decision because a 'on the edge' engine like mine is not the time to try Methanol for the first time.
That solves one problem we can supply the required fuel @ 16v from our current accuvolt system & don't require the 18.5v system although I would rather like that & may splash the cash anyway.
We will still go ahead with the monitoring of 4 egt probes via the ecu can bus as Mark suggest that info is good to have.
Ive also purchased another bonnet to go back to standard look even finding white aero catches which are no longer available.

JamesH

iTrader: (21)

Rod what size are the thermocouples going into each exhaust port?

grcossie

Will you use the same diff ratio as before?