Rod-Tarry

.25 open tip Stingers.

Rod-Tarry

Yes with 235/40/18 fitted that gives 210.9mph @ 8.2k in 5th.
with 225/40/19 fitted that gives 216.6mph @ 8.2k in 5th.


On the road 235/35/17 would give 190.2mph @ 8k that's about as much as you can use under road conditions.

JamesH

iTrader: (21)

Be careful as with the heat and vibration you're likely to be putting them under, they can break off, then lunch your turbo. Is it 0.25" where it goes through into the exhaust? 3mm ones break. 6mm won't but give slower response

Rod-Tarry

I have taken advice on this from people that know .

JamesH

iTrader: (21)

I fit and test them every day

Rod-Tarry

If your tests show they destroy Turbos why fit them. Serious question.

JamesH

iTrader: (21)

Because you need to know what the temperature is to develop a calibration

They only wreck the turbo if they break and fall off, which is why I suggested 6mm, they don't break

Mark Shead

They will only be used for mapping and testing in the car as I know they can fail easily but we need the thin ones for the speed of temp change.

Mark

JamesH

iTrader: (21)

Spot on Mark! That will be fine. I just wanted to point it out in case Rod/you didn't know, as it would be expensive!

Rod-Tarry

Here what was recommended. Your verdict would be appreciated. I knew it was a test thing only fitting. I had visions of these things snapping as soon as we started up after your comment . These people also suggest only 6mm of probe into the port whats your view on that.


Stinger Pro Series Top Alcohol Probe Single 72 inches, Part# 4025R-72-R-0



This sensor is recommended for the following applications;

• Pro Stock
• Top Alcohol Dragster
• Top Alcohol Funny Car
• Top Alcohol Drag Boat
• Pulling Tractor (No Diesel)
• Drag Bikes

Our Probes Feature:

• .250" Dia.
• Wire Length is 72" inches w/ striped leads.
• Kapton Insulated Stainless Steel Overbraided Wire.
• Response time 300 milli-seconds All Day Long!
• Exposed Tip Junction Hyper Response can see a single misfire @ 8000 RPM.
• Type “K” Calibration Special Limits, Traceable to N.I.S.T. Inconel Outer sheath good to 2200 + F
• This Probe is compatible with...Race Gasoline, Alcohol, Methanol,E85 or Nitrous Oxide in naturally aspirated, Turbo charged, Blown/Supercharged Engines.

Rod-Tarry

Forgot to say maybe you can get them cheaper or suggest another make this is from Gas Technologies in the States. Of more interest is a suggestion for a EgT/CANbus amplifier. Looked at Haltech, 2d , KMS, TF Electronics & a few others not a clue whats suitable.

JamesH

iTrader: (21)

They look fine Rod. When you fit them, you want the probe tip to be exactly half way into the exhaust port, so bang in the centre. Once fitted with the olive clamped on, you can then bend the rest of the thermocouple to get it away from heat sources. Put some heat proof tape on the wire coming out of the thermocouple too. You don't want it to fail just because it's melted the wire.

If it's a case of a few days test work, you should be fine with 3mm. But if you're happy with response of the 6mm, you can be pretty sure they won't ever break.

When they fail they tend to go open circuit. So will read 1200degC ish so lookout for that.

Best thing you can do is fit them to the manifold, then fit the manifold to the engine. Routing the leads away from heat

Mark Shead

Forgot how long it takes to prep the head ready to put on the engineso this is what's been completed in the last day.
Ring gaps later.

Mark

Rob_DOHC

iTrader: (4)

Where are you planning to mount the voltage booster and battery?

If it were me I would have another booster just for the ignition coils and injectors. With a constant output of 13-18V you would not need to calibrate battery voltage correction tables for dwell or injector opening/dead times...

Do you have any info regarding the current you expect the fuel pump to draw at full load? I can't see any information about the current output from the voltage booster vs voltage etc.

Good luck!

Rob,

Mark Shead

Rod has had a voltage booster on his car for that for about 10years or so.

Mark

Caddyshack

I can see the inlet ports have been knife edged, is this head any different to what my head will be when we do it or are they similar spec 500bhp to 1000bhp?

Mark Shead

This head is diff than before. The head for yours will go to 838hp it's the cams that make the diff.

Mark

Rod-Tarry

Have run this Accuvolt system since 2004 max of 16.25 volts. It supplies Fuel pump & CDI module that feeds the coils. We can run big plug gaps at very high boost without blow out. The FMS runs over 20v if required but can be switched off by the ECU when high volts are not required.

Rob_DOHC

iTrader: (4)

Yes, but in what configuration?

Rob_DOHC

iTrader: (4)

Thats cool, I was more wondering about where it was located in the car etc?

Drawing 10A at 20V for example would normally mean a pretty significant voltage drop by the time you were at the pump, unless the booster in in your boot with the battery.

Looking forward to more pics of progress

Rod-Tarry

Always had 15+V at the pump. The unit is under the bonnet & been there for 11 years. Everything else has changed & this pic is 640bhp engine many years back.

SiZT

Not quite, the map reference to the fpr is to equalise the pressure otherwise the fuel map looks very strange. It's a common problem on R53 mini's with the stock fuel rail when going over 18psi

If it's been mapped to the limit of det then you might need to pull back the ignition timing when it's "on gas"

That'll be a waste gate issue more than likely, depending on where the actuator was taking it's pressure reference from. If it was coming off the compressor cover then that's just down to the extra oxygen from the gas

Rod-Tarry

JamesH- Ive found a 3mm o/d probe that's made of Inconel the other probes ive looked at don't mention material. From my design days its seems unlikely Inconel will fail through Vibration am I correct on that.


Im also looking at a Kronenburg Management Systems EGT-CAN converter its not the best but perhaps the best compromise. Rang Datron today there 8 channel unit is £2500+ vat that will be a No then . They also do a 4 channel for £1500+ vat it looks like the KMS & quotes a similar spec. who pays those prices. If you have not heard they are shite or a bunch of bandits think my money will go with KMS.

Rob_DOHC

iTrader: (4)

Rod if the probes aren't going to be permanently installed do you need the CAN BUS capability? with out the Can bus accurate K type conditioning circuits become much cheaper.

For my money I would tune with all port probes installed and swap them for a single probe after the exhaust, ignoring the temp offset this would still give you a pretty decent idea before melt down.

JamesH

iTrader: (21)

We only use one type Rod so not sure, I'd imagine the majority will be stainless. Another thing worth mentioning is don't do them up too tight, as the olive can crush the thermocouple too much and make a weak point/crack

Rod-Tarry

This is a classic example of setting off down a path & not thinking .
We have used up 11 of our 16 Analog inputs & so decided to leave them as spare hence use CAN. Did not expect the massive price difference I have found. Ive just checked my Circuit Diagram & we still have those 5 inputs clear so indeed do I need to use the CAN Bus the answer is no .
If I used my brain I would be dangerous just needed a prod in the eye that your post gave me. Will speak to Mark about a single probe.
I can buy an amp for £128 & take a 3 week cruise in the Bahamas. Thanks for stopping my headlong rush to the CAN Bus.

Rod-Tarry

The Inconel ones are more expensive but may be worth it as they are also .3 not .25.

Rob_DOHC

iTrader: (4)

Lol, no worries

If you do end up only using one of the inputs (ie one sensor after the turbo) you will have an extra 4 spare too Just make sure the ecu and EGT amp share a ground so that you don't end up with a ground offset voltage.

Rob,

JamesH

iTrader: (21)

If it's just for a day or so to test, you could buy a 4 channel k type reader Rod.

Really quick google brings up things like so:

http://www.gainexpress.com/products/...sd-card-logger

If you started ECU and that reader logging at the same time you could still plot the engine speed etc against exhaust temps, and you still get the live reading to eye ball so you can abort the run if you need to

JamesH

iTrader: (21)

If you can get one with CJC that would be good to have

Rob_DOHC

iTrader: (4)

Yes the cold junction compensation is worth having and should be standard on anything using a decent K type amp IC.

I would probably do as above and have an external unit... but I do agree that logging EGT via the ecu is sooo much easier when mapping than having the ball ache of different graphs in different programs all with different time stamps... I usually use a separate program for displaying logs of knock and fucking hate using more than one program on a single screen (laptop).

Better than all of this is a combustion pressure monitor... but they have their own quirks and demands. But the impact upon tuning ignition and monitoring det/missfire is out of this world.

JamesH

iTrader: (21)

Cylinder pressure transducers are crazy expensive, and you would need to machine the head to fit them to a Cossie. And you'd probably need an encoder too so that you could line cylinder pressure up against crank angle!

Rod-Tarry

Ray Hall (Emtron) has recommended Exhaust Gas Technologies 4 Channel amp. Im also looking at one made by Stack which is more expensive. They all have CJC as far as I can see.

mgtkr1

theres not a lot i can say constructive other than im in awe of the engineering and technical calculations that goes into something that to the outsider is just a car designed to go extremeley quickly in a straight line. of course theres much more to it than that, man vs physics ect. its a hell of a feat to go over 200mph, i cannot wait to see what the latest build is capable of.

JamesH

iTrader: (21)

Whichever takes your fancy then Rod. Worth checking the refresh rate/reading frequency so you know how quickly it will update/log, 10Hz etc

Rob_DOHC

iTrader: (4)

Yes and yes... awesome tho and after having a play with a very old system a modern version is on my wish list. There are alternatives which mean you don't have to drill the head however they come with their own set of challenges and limitations.

Rob_DOHC

iTrader: (4)

Innovate TC-4 seems to be under £100 on ebay new... not sure what the spec is like but seems to have a sample rate of better (albeit only slightly) than 10Hz. And I think they also have logging software.

jsa

Innovate - 12hz no cjc. Be a waste to buy probes that can detect individual combustion events, and connect to innovate. as the information would be lost at 12hz.

Omega have a large choice of K's.

JamesH

iTrader: (21)

Spark plug adapted ones are shite

Rod-Tarry

Have gone with Ray Halls suggestion & ordered the Exhaust Gas Technologies unit & 4 stinger probes. Not the cheapest its £405 delivered.
Next the decision on the Voltage Booster.