Mk6 JWRC fiesta cosworth
19-06-2015, 06:44 AM
#3965
Spanner monkey
Live and learn Marc, but as usual, you've figured it out.
I bet you've had sleepless nights with the dirt on the new pump. Wire brush and some spray in order I bet lol
I bet you've had sleepless nights with the dirt on the new pump. Wire brush and some spray in order I bet lol
19-06-2015, 11:37 PM
#3967
best to call Mark @ MK Motorsport
Theres a fair few marks on the car anyway mate from all the years building it
adds to the lookYeah we were lucky with it mate, but new friction welded shafts should be with me by next Friday
Last edited by M K; 21-06-2015 at 08:46 AM.
The following users liked this post:
thielt1 (22-06-2015)
20-06-2015, 08:57 AM
#3968
10K+ Poster!!
Reyland still has some of the bushes needed for the input shaft for the skyline conversion as you need to pull out the cossie race bush and pop on a phosphor bronze one. Coley kindly made mine.
Just make sure you measure the input shaft length and maybe knock 5mm off or spacer it out like mine. The same person doing yours did mine so I assume the lengths will be the same?
Have you trial fitted your centre bush over the skyline box as they are slightly different, you may need it machining down a little and whilst at it you can modify for a nice fit.
Coley knocked up an extended bleed pipe for my clutch too which makes it easier as the skyline box is bigger there.
It is worth losing the centre bearing on the rear prop and go for one piece with a slider and grease nipple. Props haft services had to get a flange made up as there wasn't an end flange off the shelf available. They preferred to make 100% new parts instead of cutting and shutting cossie with skyline, the beauty of this is that the front prop is thinner than the cossie one which saves the prop hitting the bell housing. I can take pics if you need any help / ideas.
The centre bearing removal helps to reduce any vibrations as you get a straight run.
Just make sure you measure the input shaft length and maybe knock 5mm off or spacer it out like mine. The same person doing yours did mine so I assume the lengths will be the same?
Have you trial fitted your centre bush over the skyline box as they are slightly different, you may need it machining down a little and whilst at it you can modify for a nice fit.
Coley knocked up an extended bleed pipe for my clutch too which makes it easier as the skyline box is bigger there.
It is worth losing the centre bearing on the rear prop and go for one piece with a slider and grease nipple. Props haft services had to get a flange made up as there wasn't an end flange off the shelf available. They preferred to make 100% new parts instead of cutting and shutting cossie with skyline, the beauty of this is that the front prop is thinner than the cossie one which saves the prop hitting the bell housing. I can take pics if you need any help / ideas.
The centre bearing removal helps to reduce any vibrations as you get a straight run.
Last edited by Caddyshack; 20-06-2015 at 09:00 AM.
20-06-2015, 09:21 AM
#3969
Reyland still has some of the bushes needed for the input shaft for the skyline conversion as you need to pull out the cossie race bush and pop on a phosphor bronze one. Coley kindly made mine.
Just make sure you measure the input shaft length and maybe knock 5mm off or spacer it out like mine. The same person doing yours did mine so I assume the lengths will be the same?
Have you trial fitted your centre bush over the skyline box as they are slightly different, you may need it machining down a little and whilst at it you can modify for a nice fit.
Coley knocked up an extended bleed pipe for my clutch too which makes it easier as the skyline box is bigger there.
It is worth losing the centre bearing on the rear prop and go for one piece with a slider and grease nipple. Props haft services had to get a flange made up as there wasn't an end flange off the shelf available. They preferred to make 100% new parts instead of cutting and shutting cossie with skyline, the beauty of this is that the front prop is thinner than the cossie one which saves the prop hitting the bell housing. I can take pics if you need any help / ideas.
The centre bearing removal helps to reduce any vibrations as you get a straight run.
Just make sure you measure the input shaft length and maybe knock 5mm off or spacer it out like mine. The same person doing yours did mine so I assume the lengths will be the same?
Have you trial fitted your centre bush over the skyline box as they are slightly different, you may need it machining down a little and whilst at it you can modify for a nice fit.
Coley knocked up an extended bleed pipe for my clutch too which makes it easier as the skyline box is bigger there.
It is worth losing the centre bearing on the rear prop and go for one piece with a slider and grease nipple. Props haft services had to get a flange made up as there wasn't an end flange off the shelf available. They preferred to make 100% new parts instead of cutting and shutting cossie with skyline, the beauty of this is that the front prop is thinner than the cossie one which saves the prop hitting the bell housing. I can take pics if you need any help / ideas.
The centre bearing removal helps to reduce any vibrations as you get a straight run.
a 2 piece prop is to stop vibration as with a one piece one if its not big enough diameter and gauge it will whip causing vibration
and yes it is the same person doing the bell housing but I have done 6 and all fitted no problem ,but you did say you have had yours rewelded etc and you snapped a lug off bolting it up so mayby that has caused your problem
20-06-2015, 11:14 AM
#3970
Hi Toby
Coley kindly also gave me a new bushing to suit so that's sorted
With your casing issues as Mark has said could it be due to your extra welding around your case and your internal external welding of the broken lug? The box could be warped especially if not re milled true
Mark has done a few of these now with no issues, like the last one he done in my photo which was for Ron Kiddel and all is fine so I trust mine will be spot on
With regards a 1 piece prop I agree with MK
When AG done my shell he advised against a 1 piece prop as in his own experience with trying various custom made 1 piece props in his focus they never worked and always had bad vibration so il stick with the 2 piece
Keeping the small front skyline prop is good for clearance but not sure if I will cut and shut And re balance or have just the new flange on the other end
If I get stuck with anything though I will ask so I really appreciate the offer mate, thanks you
Coley kindly also gave me a new bushing to suit so that's sorted
With your casing issues as Mark has said could it be due to your extra welding around your case and your internal external welding of the broken lug? The box could be warped especially if not re milled true
Mark has done a few of these now with no issues, like the last one he done in my photo which was for Ron Kiddel and all is fine so I trust mine will be spot on
With regards a 1 piece prop I agree with MK
When AG done my shell he advised against a 1 piece prop as in his own experience with trying various custom made 1 piece props in his focus they never worked and always had bad vibration so il stick with the 2 piece
Keeping the small front skyline prop is good for clearance but not sure if I will cut and shut And re balance or have just the new flange on the other end
If I get stuck with anything though I will ask so I really appreciate the offer mate, thanks you
20-06-2015, 02:22 PM
#3971
10K+ Poster!!
I wasn't suggesting anything is wrong with the bellhousing, just telling you to check it. I did not have mine rewelded. The previous owner had extra welds put on but it was bolted down to a plate to stop any distortion.
My lug cracked as the input shaft was pushing too far in against the crank when I bolted it up, I had to put in a 4 mm spacer. If I put a straight edge across the mt75 box and measure the "poke" it is over 5mm shorter or more than the skyline one. I cannot be certain this caused the crack but with it bolted up tight the flywheel would not move, with a spacer in it moves fine.
I did an ally repair on my bellhousing after the lug cracked.
Mk Motorsport has been very supportive and offered to repair my bellhousing for free and to help me get another made, I was in no way trying to knock his work. as MK has said many times, mods of this sort are very bespoke and there will always be some Fettling as per the supra diff conversions. Who knows there could be something very different with some part of my car making this happen.
My official apology is here: https://passionford.com/forum/genera...ml#post6611513
My lug cracked as the input shaft was pushing too far in against the crank when I bolted it up, I had to put in a 4 mm spacer. If I put a straight edge across the mt75 box and measure the "poke" it is over 5mm shorter or more than the skyline one. I cannot be certain this caused the crack but with it bolted up tight the flywheel would not move, with a spacer in it moves fine.
I did an ally repair on my bellhousing after the lug cracked.
Mk Motorsport has been very supportive and offered to repair my bellhousing for free and to help me get another made, I was in no way trying to knock his work. as MK has said many times, mods of this sort are very bespoke and there will always be some Fettling as per the supra diff conversions. Who knows there could be something very different with some part of my car making this happen.
My official apology is here: https://passionford.com/forum/genera...ml#post6611513
Last edited by Caddyshack; 01-08-2015 at 04:03 PM.
20-06-2015, 02:27 PM
#3972
10K+ Poster!!
Coley also had to trim down his input shaft a little to get it to fit nicely.
These are heavy boxes with all the weight on the far end, I found I had to give it a good "wiggle" to get it to drop in to place so the less times you need to put it in and out the better.
These are heavy boxes with all the weight on the far end, I found I had to give it a good "wiggle" to get it to drop in to place so the less times you need to put it in and out the better.
20-06-2015, 02:30 PM
#3973
I wasn't suggesting anything is wrong with the bellhousing, just telling you to check it. I did not have mine rewelded. The previous owner had extra welds put on but it was bolted down to a plate to stop any distortion.
My lug cracked as the input shaft was pushing too far in against the crank when I bolted it up, I had to put in a 4 mm spacer. If I put a straight edge across the mt75 box and measure the "poke" it is over 5mm shorter or more than the skyline one. I cannot be certain this caused the crack but with it bolted up tight the flywheel would not move, with a spacer in it moves fine.
I did an ally repair on my bellhousing after the lug cracked.
Mk Motorsport has been very supportive and offered to repair my bellhousing for free and to help me get another made, I was in no way trying to knock his work. as MK has said many times, mods of this sort are very bespoke and there will always be some Fettling as per the supra diff conversions. Who knows there could be something very different with some part of my car making this happen.
My lug cracked as the input shaft was pushing too far in against the crank when I bolted it up, I had to put in a 4 mm spacer. If I put a straight edge across the mt75 box and measure the "poke" it is over 5mm shorter or more than the skyline one. I cannot be certain this caused the crack but with it bolted up tight the flywheel would not move, with a spacer in it moves fine.
I did an ally repair on my bellhousing after the lug cracked.
Mk Motorsport has been very supportive and offered to repair my bellhousing for free and to help me get another made, I was in no way trying to knock his work. as MK has said many times, mods of this sort are very bespoke and there will always be some Fettling as per the supra diff conversions. Who knows there could be something very different with some part of my car making this happen.
so the guy you got it off had it rewelded ,things can shrink after welding and if he had it refaced that could have made the input shaft stick out more ,and if it stuck out 5mm more then when you fitted it ,it must have stopped when the input shaft hit the back of the crank leaving a 5 mm gap ,and you kept tightening try to pull a 5mm gap together ? ,but didn't you say as you was nipping it up as you were just tightening it up tight you heard a crack ,I don't think the bell housing would have stretched 5 mm lol
21-06-2015, 07:41 AM
#3974
Toby - forgot to say, I'm using a Tilton concentric slave cylinder which has a larger center bore so no need to machine down the box nose piece, I may just need to machine the spacer to suit once I take a few measurements for bearing clearance
21-06-2015, 07:53 AM
#3975
10K+ Poster!!
so the guy you got it off had it rewelded ,things can shrink after welding and if he had it refaced that could have made the input shaft stick out more ,and if it stuck out 5mm more then when you fitted it ,it must have stopped when the input shaft hit the back of the crank leaving a 5 mm gap ,and you kept tightening try to pull a 5mm gap together ? ,but didn't you say as you was nipping it up as you were just tightening it up tight you heard a crack ,I don't think the bell housing would have stretched 5 mm lol
I also wonder if there might be box variations. Mine is an r33 v spec and prop shaft services said they have never seen this type of rear flange before so it could very easily have a slight variance.
The cossie needle roller would not fit my input shaft, I assume they are all bigger than the cossie ones?
21-06-2015, 07:54 AM
#3976
10K+ Poster!!
I think the Tipton one is probably the best solution.
21-06-2015, 11:15 AM
#3978
All correct. I suspect there is some tolerance in the crank end to take up some of the extra 5mm, just not all of it. The bellhousing wasn't refaced but clearly it could have moved during the second weld and maybe it should have been refaced.
I also wonder if there might be box variations. Mine is an r33 v spec and prop shaft services said they have never seen this type of rear flange before so it could very easily have a slight variance.
The cossie needle roller would not fit my input shaft, I assume they are all bigger than the cossie ones?
I also wonder if there might be box variations. Mine is an r33 v spec and prop shaft services said they have never seen this type of rear flange before so it could very easily have a slight variance.
The cossie needle roller would not fit my input shaft, I assume they are all bigger than the cossie ones?
i was just thinking did you try input shaft in bush after you pressed it in ,did you ream it out to size after you pressed it in ,with it being a press fit in the crank the bore will have shrunk with a bush you press in then ream to size are you sure its not the bush stopping it going in
with box in bits i would have had the input shaft ground to cossy size so it suited the cossy needle roller bearing ,in my opinion a bush is not suited to this purpose especially with not being able to regularly lubricated unless a groove was put in the bore of it to hold some high temp grease
mark
21-06-2015, 11:28 AM
#3979
10K+ Poster!!
hi toby
i was just thinking did you try input shaft in bush after you pressed it in ,did you ream it out to size after you pressed it in ,with it being a press fit in the crank the bore will have shrunk with a bush you press in then ream to size are you sure its not the bush stopping it going in
with box in bits i would have had the input shaft ground to cossy size so it suited the cossy needle roller bearing ,in my opinion a bush is not suited to this purpose especially with not being able to regularly lubricated unless a groove was put in the bore of it to hold some high temp grease
mark
i was just thinking did you try input shaft in bush after you pressed it in ,did you ream it out to size after you pressed it in ,with it being a press fit in the crank the bore will have shrunk with a bush you press in then ream to size are you sure its not the bush stopping it going in
with box in bits i would have had the input shaft ground to cossy size so it suited the cossy needle roller bearing ,in my opinion a bush is not suited to this purpose especially with not being able to regularly lubricated unless a groove was put in the bore of it to hold some high temp grease
mark
25-06-2015, 08:30 PM
#3985
Cheers guys
Shafts all in and clutch re bled as I removed and re did a fitting after this other gearbox went in
I need to put a bit of paint on the shafts but didn't realise I had ran out and they needed to go back in today and will quickly pop out next week for painting
Shafts all in and clutch re bled as I removed and re did a fitting after this other gearbox went in
I need to put a bit of paint on the shafts but didn't realise I had ran out and they needed to go back in today and will quickly pop out next week for painting
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BRAM (14-11-2015)
25-06-2015, 08:45 PM
#3986
10K+ Poster!!
Will you use cossie centre bearing on rears prop of skyline? I have a rear skyline if you need it?
25-06-2015, 08:46 PM
#3987
Love it!
25-06-2015, 11:43 PM
#3989
Yes as you have said I'v made the bushes out of frosber bronz . But let's put it this way all the bushes I'v made for free . they are all the same size as the one in my car and I'v done well over 500 miles with it in there and a flat out on a track day . And it's still fine and when I was in the tool making game we made loads of them this way to keep old lathes and millers running . All that said if any of you are not happy with them put them in the bin .
Last edited by COLEYST200; 25-06-2015 at 11:50 PM.
26-06-2015, 04:31 AM
#3990
Ian - I really appreciate the one you sent me, don't get me wrong, and as you say I know you have used one with no issue but if I can find the oil impregnated material to use then I will make 1 out of that and return the favour by sending you one back as well
27-06-2015, 08:33 PM
#3991
MK Motorsport has sent my gearbox casing back all welded up front part Cossie rear part skyline
Will sort a gearbox to be built up very soon for that but not sure if I will get it done before ford fair as there is a long wait for the skyline spline AP paddles for my 7.25" clutch but we will see
Will sort a gearbox to be built up very soon for that but not sure if I will get it done before ford fair as there is a long wait for the skyline spline AP paddles for my 7.25" clutch but we will see
27-06-2015, 10:22 PM
#3992
Went down to see Tommy Field today and have another go with the car and put a bit of boost up it,
Well glad to say it didn't break, no driveshaft issues and the replacement second hand mt75 gearbox lasted as well so all in all and eventful day
Just gave it 1.2 bar boost for now until the skyline box is in, but Tommy being a very experienced and talented driver gave it a good open up down some private road and well to say I nearly had a heart attack is an under statement now by no means to I think it's the fastest thing about but even at a mere 1.2 bar, with somebody who really knows how to peddle a car it opened my eyes to what a 4wd Cossie powered fiesta is only partly capable of, I was amazed, well after I stopped shaking
Anyway, roll on Ford Fair
Car will be on the fast ford stand and on track, with me driving like a pussy most likely for my first track session ever in it
Can't wait
Thanks
Marc
Well glad to say it didn't break, no driveshaft issues and the replacement second hand mt75 gearbox lasted as well so all in all and eventful day
Just gave it 1.2 bar boost for now until the skyline box is in, but Tommy being a very experienced and talented driver gave it a good open up down some private road and well to say I nearly had a heart attack is an under statement
now by no means to I think it's the fastest thing about but even at a mere 1.2 bar, with somebody who really knows how to peddle a car it opened my eyes to what a 4wd Cossie powered fiesta is only partly capable of, I was amazed, well after I stopped shaking Anyway, roll on Ford Fair
Car will be on the fast ford stand and on track, with me driving like a pussy most likely for my first track session ever in it
Can't wait
Thanks
Marc
27-06-2015, 11:45 PM
#3994
PassionFord Post Troll
Nice 1 mate if your not scared its to slow 
lets see it get to a Million.
28-06-2015, 12:34 PM
#3998
10K+ Poster!!
That bell housing looks really good. I had to smooth the end off the horizontal web that runs through the middle of the pic as it runs really close to the tunnel on mine, it only needed a few mil but work checking while it is off the box to check all clearances.
29-06-2015, 10:00 AM
#3999
Yeah im sure there will be many annoying problems to come but fingers crossed nothing major
it was lively enough for me lol
hopefully il get some mate, need to sort out a camera first though
To be hones I am not sure mate, nothing major as it was only 550 roughly on dyno so minus a bit for transmission loss and then minus some more for lower boost so id say maybe only 400?
going to book a few hours on the hub dyno soon so will find out exactly what its putting out at the wheels then
Would love to see it get to a million views,
I am gonna check it all, as while it is like this I will bolt it up to the car in sections, bell housing, middle case, transfer case and cut only where its needed and save me trying to lift and bolt unbolt the complete box all the time
