RS1600i turbo, to be reborn
20-01-2008, 12:59 PM
#521
10K+ Poster!!
iTrader: (1)
Join Date: May 2003
Location: Lancashire
Posts: 12,748
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Originally Posted by RS16iDale
dazc yes mate miss it but its good to see its gone to a excellent home.
ive got a new project now a mk1 xr2 with a rst lump
ive got a new project now a mk1 xr2 with a rst lump
20-01-2008, 01:37 PM
#522
10K+ Poster!!
iTrader: (1)
Join Date: May 2003
Location: Lancashire
Posts: 12,748
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Originally Posted by G2RSR
Originally Posted by paprst
You will not have fuel problems,
your fuel setup is ok (great injectors and management).
The problem is the air flow.
The mix on the outer cylinders would have less air and more fuel
despite your larger throttle body.
With the standard Escort manifold ,which has the throttle body in the middle of port 2 and 3 that means that 1 and 4 clyinders suffer a per cent loss of air flow.Having reached that kind of power levels your outer cyls will suffer.This air flow loss will do a great damage to your engine.
Since you have recently rebuilt your engine (using quality pistons),i think that it's a pity.
I would advice you to use the EFi setup {efi inlet+adaptor plate if needed} (combines economy with efficiency) or a larger custom made inlet.
your fuel setup is ok (great injectors and management).
The problem is the air flow.
The mix on the outer cylinders would have less air and more fuel
despite your larger throttle body.
With the standard Escort manifold ,which has the throttle body in the middle of port 2 and 3 that means that 1 and 4 clyinders suffer a per cent loss of air flow.Having reached that kind of power levels your outer cyls will suffer.This air flow loss will do a great damage to your engine.
Since you have recently rebuilt your engine (using quality pistons),i think that it's a pity.
I would advice you to use the EFi setup {efi inlet+adaptor plate if needed} (combines economy with efficiency) or a larger custom made inlet.
Who told you that jano oddkidd thats exactly the way he words it but usually its to make you to convert to his Efi cosworth managment
21-01-2008, 09:24 AM
#523
Banned
Join Date: Jan 2006
Posts: 198
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Originally Posted by DazC
Originally Posted by G2RSR
Originally Posted by paprst
You will not have fuel problems,
your fuel setup is ok (great injectors and management).
The problem is the air flow.
The mix on the outer cylinders would have less air and more fuel
despite your larger throttle body.
With the standard Escort manifold ,which has the throttle body in the middle of port 2 and 3 that means that 1 and 4 clyinders suffer a per cent loss of air flow.Having reached that kind of power levels your outer cyls will suffer.This air flow loss will do a great damage to your engine.
Since you have recently rebuilt your engine (using quality pistons),i think that it's a pity.
I would advice you to use the EFi setup {efi inlet+adaptor plate if needed} (combines economy with efficiency) or a larger custom made inlet.
your fuel setup is ok (great injectors and management).
The problem is the air flow.
The mix on the outer cylinders would have less air and more fuel
despite your larger throttle body.
With the standard Escort manifold ,which has the throttle body in the middle of port 2 and 3 that means that 1 and 4 clyinders suffer a per cent loss of air flow.Having reached that kind of power levels your outer cyls will suffer.This air flow loss will do a great damage to your engine.
Since you have recently rebuilt your engine (using quality pistons),i think that it's a pity.
I would advice you to use the EFi setup {efi inlet+adaptor plate if needed} (combines economy with efficiency) or a larger custom made inlet.
Who told you that jano oddkidd thats exactly the way he words it but usually its to make you to convert to his Efi cosworth managment
jano is correct about the inlet on the MFi escort. It WILL suffer loses to the outer two cly with std low boost, what happens if you raise the boost?
Every bit of advise i have ever read or heard from jano has been correct so maybe before you try knocking him you would talk to him in person!
Also jano NEVER forces people to buy or to convert, if you knew him first hand Daz you wouldnt laugh
21-01-2008, 09:34 PM
#525
10K+ Poster!!
iTrader: (1)
Join Date: May 2003
Location: Lancashire
Posts: 12,748
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Originally Posted by maxrs16
Originally Posted by DazC
Originally Posted by G2RSR
Originally Posted by paprst
You will not have fuel problems,
your fuel setup is ok (great injectors and management).
The problem is the air flow.
The mix on the outer cylinders would have less air and more fuel
despite your larger throttle body.
With the standard Escort manifold ,which has the throttle body in the middle of port 2 and 3 that means that 1 and 4 clyinders suffer a per cent loss of air flow.Having reached that kind of power levels your outer cyls will suffer.This air flow loss will do a great damage to your engine.
Since you have recently rebuilt your engine (using quality pistons),i think that it's a pity.
I would advice you to use the EFi setup {efi inlet+adaptor plate if needed} (combines economy with efficiency) or a larger custom made inlet.
your fuel setup is ok (great injectors and management).
The problem is the air flow.
The mix on the outer cylinders would have less air and more fuel
despite your larger throttle body.
With the standard Escort manifold ,which has the throttle body in the middle of port 2 and 3 that means that 1 and 4 clyinders suffer a per cent loss of air flow.Having reached that kind of power levels your outer cyls will suffer.This air flow loss will do a great damage to your engine.
Since you have recently rebuilt your engine (using quality pistons),i think that it's a pity.
I would advice you to use the EFi setup {efi inlet+adaptor plate if needed} (combines economy with efficiency) or a larger custom made inlet.
Who told you that jano oddkidd thats exactly the way he words it but usually its to make you to convert to his Efi cosworth managment
jano is correct about the inlet on the MFi escort. It WILL suffer loses to the outer two cly with std low boost, what happens if you raise the boost?
Every bit of advise i have ever read or heard from jano has been correct so maybe before you try knocking him you would talk to him in person!
Also jano NEVER forces people to buy or to convert, if you knew him first hand Daz you wouldnt laugh
I was laughing about what G2RSR said.
22-01-2008, 07:03 AM
#526
PassionFord Regular
Join Date: Apr 2005
Location: Not fucking here!
Posts: 438
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Originally Posted by DazC
Originally Posted by maxrs16
Originally Posted by DazC
Originally Posted by G2RSR
Originally Posted by paprst
You will not have fuel problems,
your fuel setup is ok (great injectors and management).
The problem is the air flow.
The mix on the outer cylinders would have less air and more fuel
despite your larger throttle body.
With the standard Escort manifold ,which has the throttle body in the middle of port 2 and 3 that means that 1 and 4 clyinders suffer a per cent loss of air flow.Having reached that kind of power levels your outer cyls will suffer.This air flow loss will do a great damage to your engine.
Since you have recently rebuilt your engine (using quality pistons),i think that it's a pity.
I would advice you to use the EFi setup {efi inlet+adaptor plate if needed} (combines economy with efficiency) or a larger custom made inlet.
your fuel setup is ok (great injectors and management).
The problem is the air flow.
The mix on the outer cylinders would have less air and more fuel
despite your larger throttle body.
With the standard Escort manifold ,which has the throttle body in the middle of port 2 and 3 that means that 1 and 4 clyinders suffer a per cent loss of air flow.Having reached that kind of power levels your outer cyls will suffer.This air flow loss will do a great damage to your engine.
Since you have recently rebuilt your engine (using quality pistons),i think that it's a pity.
I would advice you to use the EFi setup {efi inlet+adaptor plate if needed} (combines economy with efficiency) or a larger custom made inlet.
Who told you that jano oddkidd thats exactly the way he words it but usually its to make you to convert to his Efi cosworth managment
jano is correct about the inlet on the MFi escort. It WILL suffer loses to the outer two cly with std low boost, what happens if you raise the boost?
Every bit of advise i have ever read or heard from jano has been correct so maybe before you try knocking him you would talk to him in person!
Also jano NEVER forces people to buy or to convert, if you knew him first hand Daz you wouldnt laugh
I was laughing about what G2RSR said.
If you use the standard brick manifold as above 1 & 4 may suffer, if you use a 16i or XR3i inlet, like Christian, may get a loss through 1 & 2, if you use a EFI manifold you may get a loss through 1 & 4 again. But the power output of Christians engine, proves that any loss has no detrimental effect.
The ultimate answer is to look at power output and detonation rates of cars running high power CVH engines with different inlets. I agree there is going to be a % loss, but the manifold is pressurised prior to the air being let into the engine, therefore one would assume that all cylinders are at equal pressure.
Personally, I prefer the personal touch and if you are willing to spend the time to modify the manifold and make it look very factory then I praise you.
Me personally, I am gonna do something similar to Christian and I am going to use a 16i manifold. I like the look, plus I can return my S1 back to standard afterwards using the stock manifold.
22-01-2008, 11:06 PM
#528
1981
Join Date: May 2005
Location: midlands
Posts: 212
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Originally Posted by originalcabbie
Originally Posted by DazC
Originally Posted by maxrs16
Originally Posted by DazC
Originally Posted by G2RSR
Originally Posted by paprst
You will not have fuel problems,
your fuel setup is ok (great injectors and management).
The problem is the air flow.
The mix on the outer cylinders would have less air and more fuel
despite your larger throttle body.
With the standard Escort manifold ,which has the throttle body in the middle of port 2 and 3 that means that 1 and 4 clyinders suffer a per cent loss of air flow.Having reached that kind of power levels your outer cyls will suffer.This air flow loss will do a great damage to your engine.
Since you have recently rebuilt your engine (using quality pistons),i think that it's a pity.
I would advice you to use the EFi setup {efi inlet+adaptor plate if needed} (combines economy with efficiency) or a larger custom made inlet.
your fuel setup is ok (great injectors and management).
The problem is the air flow.
The mix on the outer cylinders would have less air and more fuel
despite your larger throttle body.
With the standard Escort manifold ,which has the throttle body in the middle of port 2 and 3 that means that 1 and 4 clyinders suffer a per cent loss of air flow.Having reached that kind of power levels your outer cyls will suffer.This air flow loss will do a great damage to your engine.
Since you have recently rebuilt your engine (using quality pistons),i think that it's a pity.
I would advice you to use the EFi setup {efi inlet+adaptor plate if needed} (combines economy with efficiency) or a larger custom made inlet.
Who told you that jano oddkidd thats exactly the way he words it but usually its to make you to convert to his Efi cosworth managment
jano is correct about the inlet on the MFi escort. It WILL suffer loses to the outer two cly with std low boost, what happens if you raise the boost?
Every bit of advise i have ever read or heard from jano has been correct so maybe before you try knocking him you would talk to him in person!
Also jano NEVER forces people to buy or to convert, if you knew him first hand Daz you wouldnt laugh
I was laughing about what G2RSR said.
If you use the standard brick manifold as above 1 & 4 may suffer, if you use a 16i or XR3i inlet, like Christian, may get a loss through 1 & 2, if you use a EFI manifold you may get a loss through 1 & 4 again. But the power output of Christians engine, proves that any loss has no detrimental effect.
The ultimate answer is to look at power output and detonation rates of cars running high power CVH engines with different inlets. I agree there is going to be a % loss, but the manifold is pressurised prior to the air being let into the engine, therefore one would assume that all cylinders are at equal pressure.
Personally, I prefer the personal touch and if you are willing to spend the time to modify the manifold and make it look very factory then I praise you.
Me personally, I am gonna do something similar to Christian and I am going to use a 16i manifold. I like the look, plus I can return my S1 back to standard afterwards using the stock manifold.
fuck jano off and start thinking for yourself i have tested the manifolds on a flowbench there is slight diffrence to the outer cylinders on mfi on the manifold 1cfm and the s1 manifold flows more air than the s2 item
23-01-2008, 08:54 PM
#529
10K+ Poster!!
iTrader: (1)
Join Date: May 2003
Location: Lancashire
Posts: 12,748
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Mitch,
It would be good if you could try an EFI one on a flow bench too. I'd like to know some exact figures on the differences between 1/4 and 2/3 as the throttle body is directly opposite to the inlet runners for 2/3 where 1/4 are off to 1 side.
It's good to see that some people are investigating what items are better and learning for themselves rather than just believing what ever they are told.
AJC,
It can be done but it's not straight forwards and it's not viable to fit it under the bonnet of a Mk3/4 Escort!
It would be good if you could try an EFI one on a flow bench too. I'd like to know some exact figures on the differences between 1/4 and 2/3 as the throttle body is directly opposite to the inlet runners for 2/3 where 1/4 are off to 1 side.
It's good to see that some people are investigating what items are better and learning for themselves rather than just believing what ever they are told.
AJC,
It can be done but it's not straight forwards and it's not viable to fit it under the bonnet of a Mk3/4 Escort!
02-02-2008, 09:27 AM
#534
Banned
Join Date: Jan 2006
Posts: 198
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Originally Posted by DazC
I'm not bothered about what Jano says mate. I know for a fact that the EFI manifold is even worse than the standard manifold but that is what I know to be fact.
Originally Posted by DazC
It would be good if you could try an EFI one on a flow bench too. I'd like to know some exact figures on the differences between 1/4 and 2/3 as the throttle body is directly opposite to the inlet runners for 2/3 where 1/4 are off to 1 side.
It's good to see that some people are investigating what items are better and learning for themselves rather than just believing what ever they are told.
So you saying you "know for a fact" is rubbish as you aint tested it yourself anyways.
Just regirgitating 
others pub talk aint ya The flow test has already been done by Jano with the figures and proof.
So you carry on talking what you know to be "fact" and let people prove you wrong.
Then when you dont agree with the facts you can call them names and contradict yourself to them, people can carry on laughing at you 
You are the weakest link, goodbye.
02-02-2008, 03:27 PM
#535
10K+ Poster!!
iTrader: (1)
Join Date: May 2003
Location: Lancashire
Posts: 12,748
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Originally Posted by maxrs16
Originally Posted by DazC
I'm not bothered about what Jano says mate. I know for a fact that the EFI manifold is even worse than the standard manifold but that is what I know to be fact.
Originally Posted by DazC
It would be good if you could try an EFI one on a flow bench too. I'd like to know some exact figures on the differences between 1/4 and 2/3 as the throttle body is directly opposite to the inlet runners for 2/3 where 1/4 are off to 1 side.
It's good to see that some people are investigating what items are better and learning for themselves rather than just believing what ever they are told.
So you saying you "know for a fact" is rubbish as you aint tested it yourself anyways.
Just regirgitating others pub talk aint ya The flow test has already been done by Jano with the figures and proof.
So you carry on talking what you know to be "fact" and let people prove you wrong.
Then when you dont agree with the facts you can call them names and contradict yourself to them, people can carry on laughing at you You are the weakest link, goodbye.
I have never seen Jano prove anything he has ever claimed as yet so take your pub talk opinion and fuck off out of this thread. Unless he is capable of bending the laws of physics.
If the EFI has an imbalance of less than 6% across the inlet runners I will appologise.
Until then, you stick to paying someone to do your tuning and I'll carry on trying things for myself and learning things first hand.
02-02-2008, 04:05 PM
#536
to be honest i've heard several conflicting views on this subject and i can't see how the standard escort plenum causes the outer cylinders to run on less air. as far as i can tell the plenum is pressurized anyway under boost and air will only flow down the inlet runners when the valves are open. the space is not large enough to cause air velocities to slow down to the point where airflow loss is a major problem. the proof is in the pudding though. just look at the NMS cars running on series 1 inlets with over 300bhp. if what has been said is true then these engines wouldn't last five seconds at high revs yet ollie and tim both put in outstanding top speed runs at the PF daddy thrash in 2007. think logically and it just doesn't make sense to say that the S1 and S2 inlets will potentially cause the outer cylinders to fail. just my 2 pence worth on the subject.
03-02-2008, 10:15 AM
#537
Banned
Join Date: Jan 2006
Posts: 198
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Originally Posted by DazC
Whatever you want to believe mate. It is pretty obvious there will be a deficit of air to the outer 2 cylinders on the EFI inlet compared to the standard one just be studying it and thinking logically.
Stop thinking about things and talk to people who HAVE tested it and DOES have proof.
03-02-2008, 11:33 AM
#539
10K+ Poster!!
iTrader: (1)
Join Date: May 2003
Location: Lancashire
Posts: 12,748
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Originally Posted by maxrs16
Originally Posted by DazC
Whatever you want to believe mate. It is pretty obvious there will be a deficit of air to the outer 2 cylinders on the EFI inlet compared to the standard one just be studying it and thinking logically.
Stop thinking about things and talk to people who HAVE tested it and DOES have proof.
Yes logically. To sit and study a design and to spot obvious flaws in it before you start testing. It helps with understanding your findings once you have tested it.
Thats the difference. I am out testing things while you are talking to people who tell you what they want you to hear.
If Jano has tested it, you should be able to prove to me that the EFI inlet has less of an imbalance that the standard unit then. As my AFR readings indicate otherwise.
I'll tell you what, I'll stick to my job in software, electrical and mechanical engineering and you can stick to what ever job you do.
05-02-2008, 07:16 PM
#545
Virgin
Join Date: Feb 2008
Posts: 3
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Personally, trying to go down the cosworth route, im not impressed with Jano, after waiting for weeks for his paypal email to sort out cash for the bits, I got frustrated and decided on another management system ,a hell of a lot cheaper and standalone for me to learn how to map.
Personally, its your preference on what manifold you want to run.
Personally, its your preference on what manifold you want to run.
13-02-2008, 10:02 PM
#551
PassionFord Post Whore!!
Join Date: Oct 2005
Location: aberdeenshire
Posts: 7,346
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
aright mate, i see you had escort cossie alloys for sale & was wondering if you tried them on your rs16i & if they touched your coilovers?
cheers
cheers
23-02-2008, 03:21 PM
#553
Too many posts.. I need a life!!
Awesome build.
I am interested in the cylinder head work done.
Were stainless valves used?
Was there any flow testing done?
I am assembling a new cylinder head now, and am not sure if standard valves are reliable, or if a switch to stainless is a wise move.
Cheers
I am interested in the cylinder head work done.
Were stainless valves used?
Was there any flow testing done?
I am assembling a new cylinder head now, and am not sure if standard valves are reliable, or if a switch to stainless is a wise move.
Cheers
