Water Injection / Pressure drop / atomisation
20-10-2005, 10:36 AM
#42
Mike - anything below a 3bar pressure drop...causes the problem LOL..
I have the Flojet one on at the mo, but we are going to try this on olis rst and the erl one @ 2bar and see which is the best at cooling with the same size jets
Am guessing that the 6bar pump will be better than the 3bar LOL...
I have the Flojet one on at the mo, but we are going to try this on olis rst and the erl one @ 2bar and see which is the best at cooling with the same size jets
Am guessing that the 6bar pump will be better than the 3bar LOL...
20-10-2005, 10:52 AM
#43
Steve,
Cool (no pun intended
) - but what is your cut off point?
What if the Flojet one holds ACTs at 44°C and the ERL one at 42°C (at which point it gets turned off by the ECU if it is contolled by the Pectel software anyway). Does the extra 2° improvement justify the price tag, as the ERL pump is three times the cost of the Flojet item...?
Cool (no pun intended
) - but what is your cut off point?What if the Flojet one holds ACTs at 44°C and the ERL one at 42°C (at which point it gets turned off by the ECU if it is contolled by the Pectel software anyway). Does the extra 2° improvement justify the price tag, as the ERL pump is three times the cost of the Flojet item...?
20-10-2005, 10:54 AM
#44
Top post
tech post for mike as he seems clued up on this.
Scenario if i say have a head wind of say 10 psi 6mph est,
and i unzip and piss at say 3 psi (tested up wall in bog) into said head wind will i
A) get water atomisation and slow the flow
OR
B) get major water droplets and said missfire of nozzel and wet pants ?????
tech post for mike as he seems clued up on this.
Scenario if i say have a head wind of say 10 psi 6mph est,
and i unzip and piss at say 3 psi (tested up wall in bog) into said head wind will i
A) get water atomisation and slow the flow
OR
B) get major water droplets and said missfire of nozzel and wet pants ?????
20-10-2005, 11:07 AM
#45
Mike - you are totally missing the point LOL.....
mine using the erl one on the pace cooler used to reach 44 degree's then drop back to 38 and turn off....
Taking you flo-jet doesn't do this ?
Not related just curious....
Having said that my pump broke twice LOL.....
mine using the erl one on the pace cooler used to reach 44 degree's then drop back to 38 and turn off....
Taking you flo-jet doesn't do this ?
Not related just curious....
Having said that my pump broke twice LOL.....
20-10-2005, 11:55 AM
#46
Originally Posted by Mike Rainbird
Rod,
Out of interest, what boost were you running, as obviously you have reached the saturation point where the pressure overcomes the pump? This would be useful to know.
Out of interest, what boost were you running, as obviously you have reached the saturation point where the pressure overcomes the pump? This would be useful to know
.It was on my old 504 conversion so 2.7bar was sometimes used, it would have been 2.5+bar thats for sure.
20-10-2005, 12:06 PM
#48
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Originally Posted by Steven_RW
Steve,
Suppose there is only so much room at the front end of a mk2 escort!. Next stage might be to stick a MASSIVE intercooler on the front of the car ala roger sports
Suppose there is only so much room at the front end of a mk2 escort!. Next stage might be to stick a MASSIVE intercooler on the front of the car ala roger sports
steve...
not a lot of room left would be an understatement
20-10-2005, 02:17 PM
#54
Just out of curiousity, why do you intend on pushing your turbo so hard, as surely running more than 2.2 bar, you are WAY outside the compressor maps peak efficiency range and will be getting deminishing returns? Surely as RW has said, it would be better to run less boost and more ignition - will give better intercooler, turbo and cylinder temps / pressures - especially as you are running highish compression?
20-10-2005, 02:23 PM
#55
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Originally Posted by Mike Rainbird
Just out of curiousity, why do you intend on pushing your turbo so hard..........
Quite a few of the cars at the RR session will have WI...........some with Flowjet pumps and some with ERL
20-10-2005, 02:43 PM
#59
Steve,
As I said I don't need to know, as there are just so few turbos on the market that are designed to run above this pressure that unless yours is one of them, I fail to see why you would want to
? However, if you want to blow smoke up my arse, just because you know I'm right but won't admit it, then feel free 
.
As I said I don't need to know, as there are just so few turbos on the market that are designed to run above this pressure that unless yours is one of them, I fail to see why you would want to
? However, if you want to blow smoke up my arse, just because you know I'm right but won't admit it, then feel free .
20-10-2005, 02:46 PM
#60
Mike from what i can make out its 2.5bar, but i am not sure if thats correct.
So thats the test, but i think karl thinks thats a bit high so will probably be more like 2.3 held Again, its unknown as its not been tested.
So thats the test, but i think karl thinks thats a bit high so will probably be more like 2.3 held Again, its unknown as its not been tested.
20-10-2005, 03:17 PM
#62
You just said 2.5bar wasn't in the scope of a t4 yet its now normal.
Karl is more concerned with my compression i think rather than the turbo, hence it being a bit much.
already have a 2.45bar boost spike in mid range
Spike would be 3bar and 2.5 held - does that sound like a normal T4
Karl is more concerned with my compression i think rather than the turbo, hence it being a bit much.
already have a 2.45bar boost spike in mid range
Spike would be 3bar and 2.5 held - does that sound like a normal T4
20-10-2005, 03:45 PM
#64
Steve,
I'm talking about HELD pressures. My T4 on the Sapphire used to run a 34psi spike and hold 32psi.... This was just about acceptable for this turbo. However, I have seen them pushed to 40psi holding 34psi
(ask Rodders ), which is akin to running a T3/4 at a held 32psi (which I think you know all about ).
It may take this abuse, but it will be so far outside it's compressor MAP that the ACTs will be sky-high and will NEED cooling with the aid of NOS....
I'm talking about HELD pressures. My T4 on the Sapphire used to run a 34psi spike and hold 32psi.... This was just about acceptable for this turbo. However, I have seen them pushed to 40psi holding 34psi
(ask Rodders ), which is akin to running a T3/4 at a held 32psi (which I think you know all about ).It may take this abuse, but it will be so far outside it's compressor MAP that the ACTs will be sky-high and will NEED cooling with the aid of NOS....
20-10-2005, 03:53 PM
#65
Mike, you talk like you know what my turbo is
LOL
Will let you know on my tests on the pumps, as I am sure you will like the information.
I must bid the bbs farewell untill the next techincal question arrives
LOL
Will let you know on my tests on the pumps, as I am sure you will like the information.
I must bid the bbs farewell untill the next techincal question arrives
20-10-2005, 04:11 PM
#66
Testing the future
PMSL @ dingy
i was just responding to Steven RW's comment and you go taking it personally as though i was saying that your intercooler don't work properly. argumentative sod. i wasn't, but if it does work so well, why are talking about using water injection?
i was just responding to Steven RW's comment and you go taking it personally as though i was saying that your intercooler don't work properly. argumentative sod. i wasn't, but if it does work so well, why are talking about using water injection?
21-10-2005, 07:46 AM
#68
yeah LOL .5bar...
Tested the pumps into the air last night using a 0.6mm jet and a 1.0mm jet.
Flo-jet on the 0.6 is fairly fine spray but you can see the droplets of water.
Flo-jet on the 1.0 is not fine @ all - they are large droplets of water.
ERL is the same on both nozzle's - you cant see the droplets of water, its a mist.
Tested the pumps into the air last night using a 0.6mm jet and a 1.0mm jet.
Flo-jet on the 0.6 is fairly fine spray but you can see the droplets of water.
Flo-jet on the 1.0 is not fine @ all - they are large droplets of water.
ERL is the same on both nozzle's - you cant see the droplets of water, its a mist.
21-10-2005, 03:28 PM
#73
This has come back from flo-jet
OK what does this mean exactly cause i am a bit lost LOL
Steve,
The pump in question can over come the 36.5PSI (2.5 bar) static pressure as the pump has an internal by pass set at 47 PSI (3.3 bar) total at 0 Flow.
The flow will be low at pressures above the 36 PSI (2.5 bar) static head as follows.
40PSI (2.8 bar) @ 0.6GPM (2.2lt/min
45PSI (3.0 bar) @ 0.3 GPM (1.14lt/min)
47PSI (3.3 bar) @ 0 GPM (0lt/min)
(Minus any losses in your system).
Best regards,
Tony Cordia
The pump in question can over come the 36.5PSI (2.5 bar) static pressure as the pump has an internal by pass set at 47 PSI (3.3 bar) total at 0 Flow.
The flow will be low at pressures above the 36 PSI (2.5 bar) static head as follows.
40PSI (2.8 bar) @ 0.6GPM (2.2lt/min
45PSI (3.0 bar) @ 0.3 GPM (1.14lt/min)
47PSI (3.3 bar) @ 0 GPM (0lt/min)
(Minus any losses in your system).
Best regards,
Tony Cordia
21-10-2005, 03:35 PM
#74
It means that the pump can do what you want and that it doesn't stop flowing until you're running 3.3 bar of boost . However, it does show that the flow rate is considerably reduced with boost (head) pressure .
Even at 2.8 bar it can flow 2.2 litres a minute. Should be more than enough?
If it wasn't, you could still run an ADDITIONAL Flojet pump and have a total of 4.4 litres of flow a minute and STILL be Ł120 cheaper than the ERL pump.
. However, it does show that the flow rate is considerably reduced with boost (head) pressure .Even at 2.8 bar it can flow 2.2 litres a minute
. Should be more than enough?If it wasn't, you could still run an ADDITIONAL Flojet pump and have a total of 4.4 litres of flow a minute and STILL be Ł120 cheaper than the ERL pump
.
21-10-2005, 03:42 PM
#76
Thats all very well then mike, but the pump has a poor spray pattern to begin with compared to the ERL so still not sure....
So it doesn't stop flowing but will show a reduction in flow like expected..
Interesting though.
In favour of the ERL at present
So it doesn't stop flowing but will show a reduction in flow like expected..
Interesting though.
In favour of the ERL at present
21-10-2005, 03:44 PM
#77
The Spec-r WI tanks even have a facility for you to do this . The only thing that I would be concerned about is wouldn't this cause a vacuum in the tank if it became a sealed unit with water being drawn from it? Then again, I suppose the WI wouldn't be on long enough for it to become an issue 
. Might just try this and see what it does .
Steve,
And I fully accept that the ERL pump is an IDEAL solution (providing the reliability issues have been cured). It's just that with a good intercooler, the WI set up doesn't have to be 100% perfect to still keep the ACTs to an acceptable level. It all depends on how far you want to go and how much you want to spend to get EVERYTHING 100%. Compromises are all part of daily life and it is what you are prepared to accept.
. The only thing that I would be concerned about is wouldn't this cause a vacuum in the tank if it became a sealed unit with water being drawn from it? Then again, I suppose the WI wouldn't be on long enough for it to become an issue . Might just try this and see what it does .Steve,
And I fully accept that the ERL pump is an IDEAL solution (providing the reliability issues have been cured). It's just that with a good intercooler, the WI set up doesn't have to be 100% perfect to still keep the ACTs to an acceptable level. It all depends on how far you want to go and how much you want to spend to get EVERYTHING 100%. Compromises are all part of daily life and it is what you are prepared to accept
.
21-10-2005, 04:06 PM
#80
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a 3k T4?
you dont run als do you.. so you wouldnt bother with a maram shaft..
is it ball bag bearing'd?
made of diamond?
or super nms spec
you dont run als do you.. so you wouldnt bother with a maram shaft..
is it ball bag bearing'd?
made of diamond?
or super nms spec