BillyCabrio

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Just had a call from my mate Liam who has my cabbie, he's phoned to say that the engine has little or no compression

Can't remember the exact details of which cylinders were worse but it don't sound to promising

Also he said that he's looked down the bores and they don't look in to good condition

He asked if the engine has been running at all, to which i told him that it was in a car that myself and *Anna* used to drive around in. So i do know that it is a working engine.

It has sat on my garage floor for a few months tho

Can anyone shed some light on the lack of compression thing? & the possibilities as to the bores being all scored up?

Cheers Chaps

NEO™®©

which engine was it i.e rover, ford etc no compression could be caused by a few things, burnt out a valve, killed rings, bore wash so on so forth hth

BillyCabrio

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Sorry lol assumed peeps would know.

Its a 1987 Rs Turbo lump, completly boggo standard.

It had a brand new short block about 20ish thousand miles ago.

And it used to belong to Damo V.

NEO™®©

hmmm sounds like sommat has got in the ores but its unlikley that you could get something in all four bores, is he sure he has carried out the compression test correctly? has the engine been laying about with no plugs in? also how can he see down the bores as even with the plugs out and a torch you cant exactly get the best view lol

Neil S

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Has the cambelt snapped?

Neil.

BillyCabrio

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I dunno lol he's the mechanic

He said he has a scope for to see into the bores and afaik he should know what he's doing with a compression tester

From what i can remember, theres been plugs in it 99% of the time.

BillyCabrio

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Neil S, Nope brand new one fella as are all the other service items.

Anonymous

As above, loads of possible causes, badly scored bores would be one of them.

Leakdown test is a good way to tell, but not when the engine is now in bits (i assume for him to know about the bores, or did he use a borescope?)

more details needed

BillyCabrio

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chip-3door, as above fella, he used some sort of scope to see down the bores and afaik the engine is still in one lump in the car still.

Previous problems leading up to me giving it to my mate to sort are here Chip:

https://passionford.com/forum/viewto...069977#2069977

Rick

Cam timing out? Has the head been altered? Valves aren't seating, or like me - the little spacers under the rockers were left out

BillyCabrio

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Rick, Now you come to mention it mate, Damo did change the vavle stem oil seals for me a while ago and did keep saying....."Have you torqued up the rocker bolts.......?" And i was like, er....no Whooops.

I wonder if theres a problem there

Lee_R21Turbo

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1.) Could it possibly be that moisture has got into the bores whilst its been stood & have rusted the bores quite severely.....and when you've gone to start its knackered the rings because of the rust - does the compression go up if u stick a cap full of oil down each cylinder??

2.) Have you changed the cambelt & not timed it up quite right????

Rick

BillyCabrio,

It would defo be my first port of call. There are little square shaped steel spacers which slide over the rocker stud before the rocker goes on. If the rockers aren't in properly, ur valves arent going to work.

BillyCabrio

iTrader: (1)

Lee_R21Turbo, The engine timing is all 100% correct and at TDC.

As for the rust, its probable i suspose. I'm popping up there in a minute to see the problems for myself.

Will suggest the oil remedy tho.

Anonymous

Do a leakdown test mate, no amount of internet guessing with give you the info that will.

AndyRST

Paul knowing that your engine was a good runner when you took it out of the Estate i would be thinking if theres no compression i would look at the valve area. Maybe there not closing and sealing up properly.

Also when the engine ran for a few mins at full throttle, did it sound like it was running on less then 4 cyclinders? if the compression was that far down i would have thought it wouldnt have run at all.

Didnt you strip the engine down and have the head off and inspect the bores anyway ?

DanS

Had a simular problem (no or little compression) when steve b rebuilt my engine. turned out piper had sent us the wrong spec cam.

BillyCabrio

iTrader: (1)

chip-3door, Just been upto see Liam about the engine and it turns out that it still wont start.

No4 cylinder is actually getting hot where its trying to run on cranking but, cylinders 1-3 are not.

Cylinders 1 -3 have a compression of 50 and No 4 is on 150.

Liam showed me with the scope thing down into the bores and there are quite a few scratchs and marks in bores 1-3, No4 is fine tho

AndyRST, Laims's had the cam cover off and the valves are all ok and the rockers nuts are all tight

When it was running it did sound as if it was it was missing, very, very lumpy.

But all the time i had the engine, the head was never removed for any reason.

I think Liam may whip the head off and investigate further if we get no where with initial investigations.

He has put oil inside the bores and is going to leave it over night to see if it has any effect tomorrow.

TheBishMan

fingers x'd mate

Damo V

NEEDS to do a cylinder leakage test... Said about that didnt I when we were at yours, all the rockers and bits went back on properly...

When I did the stem seals the engine had already previously had belt removed by you IIRC, I took all the rockers off the head at the same time then changed the seals as you saw, I then fitted your new belt and is DEFO 100% timed up correctly as has been confirmed by a couple of people as we double checked this when it wouldnt run

I would suggest between the time you took the belt off and I took the rockers off, the bottom end has been turned over by the crank causing valve damage

as you know it was running fine before you took it out the previous car and as you say its a brand new short engine which has only done 20oddK on std power

NO WAY its worn bores or rings especially while sitting on the garage floor lol

I would suggest the rust in bores is a little far fetched, I imagine the reason it looks different is because number 4 is firing, the rest are caked in petrol etc, and viewing it through the boroscope is emphasising this... BUT this still doesnt explain why it DID run..... since its been in your car...

Do a cylinder leakage test before removing head IMO

Anonymous

IF the bores have significant scratches on them then that would account for the losses.

Doesnt seem that likely to me.

Either do a leakdown test, or strip it, thats your only two options really.

BillyCabrio

iTrader: (1)

Just had a text from Liam who's read this post put said he'll post up later, he said........

I think we'll have to wait and see until tomorrow now......

Damo V

Crank case smelling of fuel? Borewash/flooding, those bores have had Shed loads of fuel thrown into then over last few weeks, where else can it go?


Well as you know it was running FINE before you took it out the car.... cant see how it can wear the rings / bores sitting on the garage floor for 2 months but hey ho stranger things have happened,

BTW just to confirm THIS WAS a brand new short engine (not just a block)from dagenham motors in 1992 and has done somewhere in the region of 27k from new at std power...

BillyCabrio

iTrader: (1)

Thanks for adding that Damo

Like i said on the phone, just want a deffinant answer as to the problem - although i can't afford the repair at the moment, at least i know whats wrong and the remedy to sort it.

Benn 304R

I have a spare rst block if ya want it, not sure how good it is though.

Damo V

TBH paul I have taken offence to this, that sounds like you are going back and forth between two people one of whom is telling you your engine is shit and the other ME is having to defend the engine in the car I sold you... (which I dont have to do) at NO point today did I say the bores arent damaged, what I said above was WORN ......... BIG difference

with reference to "If he wants me to show him the bores, he can come down to my garage and i'll show him" .... I dont want OR need to see the Fcuking bores not through a scope anyway. Dont see the point in discussing anything till a cylinder leakage test has been done, this will help detemine

a)how much air is leaking from each cylinder

and

b) could pinpoint where from in a far more precise manor than any compression tester will, be it Snap on Blue point or sealey

Then if necessary take the head off..

AndyRST

I dont understand how it can go from a sweet running engine when you and anna were using it as a runabout, to not starting now when it hasnt been run at all. Got to be something simple

BillyCabrio

iTrader: (1)

Damo V

Dont get your knickers in a twist mate.

This is a learning curve for me.

I am forever greatful to you for the help you've given me in your free time, you know what you know and Liam know's what he know's.

In typical BB style, two opinions clash again. I'm sure that in conversation i.e. face2face, that text message would have beed longer and more to the point, but as its a text message, dont read to much into it mate.

Liam has offered to try and resolve this for me (for free) and i'm sure he knows what he's doing and i trust his judgement and expertise.

I dont recall Liam saying the engine was shit? I have, like you defended the engine and tried to give as much information about it as i could, it was yours for a lot longer than its been mine. I only wanted you to fill in on the shadey area's regarding the engine's history.

I'm sure the problems will be resolved all in good time, what ever route is taken to find what the problems are and why they've happened.

AndyRST Your not the only one mate

Although it wasn't running 100% when it was in Damo's Escort, it kept having sudden power loss. Happened on the QE2 bridge on the way home from a meet one night. Died completley, it did it on a few occations. I thought nothing of it, mind you it had sat around for years on end.

BillyCabrio

iTrader: (1)

Well the results are............











Scratched and scored to buggery

Onwards and upwards now then, so i'm on the hunt for a new bottom end.

Unexplainable as to the cause, but it might have been something to do with this when i was spraying the turbo housing........



Taken from my resto post back in April this year.

https://passionford.com/forum/viewto...=asc&start=280

Anyone explain what Swarf is to me?

Liam did tell me, but i can't remember - whats the reason behind the carbon deposits in the middle of each piston?

vroooom ptssssh

not good man, to me it looks like in the last piston pic theres ben some det? and fragments of molten metal have made there way to the exhaust housing? i may be 100% wrong, so wait for someone with some knowledge to tell you

BillyCabrio

iTrader: (1)

vroooom ptssssh, Thanks for ya reply fella, but i'm not after causes anymore.

Whats happend has happened, now i just wanna fix it.

BillyCabrio

iTrader: (1)

Can you bring with you on Saturday please

Benn 304R

I will think about it

BillyCabrio

iTrader: (1)

Benn 304R, What you actually mean is.........

If you remember

Benn 304R

yeah, and if it will fit in the bemmer as its still attached to the head lol

BillyCabrio

iTrader: (1)

Oh dear lol.

Well if you could bring it up with you mate, Liam said he'd have a nosey at it and see what kinda condition its in.

Damo V

£cukin hell paul...

carbon on piston is std dont worry about that, its the carbon which makes it look like "detonation" has occoured too, I doubt very very much its det'd at all as you know the car was running sweet F all boost lol

I thought you said the stuff in the exhaust housing was simply white carbon???? ... would make sense...

How deep are the scores, will they simply not hone out? [bIMO[/b] I wouldnt use a new block, dont see the point, even if they are scored beyond a hone, could just bore out slightly, unless of course you were just going to fit a complete Second hand B/E to save buying new pistons?? prob makes sense Either way dont scrap the block or crank... in fact if benn has a complete engine why not just fit that?

Sorry to see that paul

Rick

Sad News. Is block st bore size?

Damo V

Rick,

yes

BillyCabrio

iTrader: (1)

Well its just my luck really lol, nothing minor ever goes wrong - its always foooking HUGE pmsl

As for the boost i was running, it was about 0.3 bar when the car was running No over boosting problems there then

I'm not 100% sure what that powder was coming outta the turbo, was defo a grey/white colour.

The scores in 1, 2, 3 are deep enough to feel with ya finger nail and some you can feel with you finger tip, No 4 theres are very light scratch marks, not as heavy as 1, 2, & 3 tho.

I wont be scrapping the block as it has all the bits on it i need to go cossie management if i do in the future......

Short term and cost wise i'll be sourcing a cheap runner of a bottom end. I'm hoping the one Benn has is a good'un..... Will find out on Saturday.

I couldn't possible run Benn's engine without all my BLACK powder coated parts now, could i..........

Standard as the day she was born For now lol