ImaRacing 700

..so would it be right in saying that running a suitable amp and 1 coil per cylinder is better than running a coil pack?

Dont coilpacks have wasted spark which aint good?

When is a plug gap too big...there must be a limit no matter how strong the spark???...I am as most know goin 1 grp a coil per cylinder surely the best gap would be around .75mm????

Ryan

.75mm is a relatively small gap, is there any reason for going 1 coil per plug? other than to be "special" ?

As i dont know any high powered Cossy's off the top of my head that run them? they just use the traditional coilpack method which seems to work well for there needs

Coilpack do use a wasted spark system, which obviously means life of the plug is shortened.

Dave Henshall

...but the emmisions are better

EscortWRC

Wasted spark is only a problem if you are not able to make 'charge time' to get a full charge before the coil fires again.

As for wear on plugs.....they are cheap, consumable items

ImaRacing 700

Ryan.....i am doin it cause its my cheapest option to have a suitable ignition system to eliminate any misfires

If you run 9's i dont think they cheap I will not be running them but will be running an expensive set of plugs.

I know a hill climbing V8 that also runs my own system but 8 coils obviously! over the coil pack.....

Ryan

ok well fair enough.

I've jsut gone for the traditional 909 Coilpack Set-up.

Tried & Tested route for what i need, so no need for me to explore other avenues.

Anonymous

Mine may not be High powered but it uses 4 coils & a Autronics CD1.

Ryan

didnt think yours ran 4 coils sorry rod, but i knew you were running some ridiculously priced aftermarket ignition system.

ImaRacing 700

Rod has gone balls out Way OTT but then saying that can you ever be OTT on the ignition system?

Anonymous

Have had probs with spark blowout & misfires in the past, so i asked Mark to take it out of the equation, Can run as big a spark as Mark wants, I actually have no idea what the gap was finalised at , thats Marks job.
Rod

Ryan

when you had problems what were you running a conventional distributor, coil and lead system?

ECU Monitor Enthusiast

iTrader: (1)

I have had involvement with 4 YB engines with 600+ BHP and each ran a standard
Zetec style coilpack with big plug gaps !!!

Cheap and it works well !!!!

Ryan

hence why i've got that route simon

especially with the advtanges of agressive spark on s8

extra14

On sohc engine coil on plug is a bad idea, as the heat from the exhaust manifold iwill cause failures.

On dohc this is far less of an issue.

Wasted spark is not a problem as the coils store about twice as much energy as a coil on plug.
+ i`ve heard coil on plug units are not reliable.

Darren

NUTS RuS

iTrader: (35)

I wouldn't call my bog standard Vectra anything but Special

Ryan

Tony will PM you soon regarding our little conversation, just sorting out disc size at the moment.

Tony Ryan

I know of several cosworth powered race cars that run Coil on plug systems , whether they have any advantage or not is up to the individual . i dont believe that a roadcar would need them over a wasted spark system , i went this route to avoid the sort of mis fires that Rod mentioned , coupled with spark gap and the right intercooler this is a fantastic system . The one point i can add is that engine and chassis earths are really important for coilpacks , i have a burnt injector and plug to prove that .,
regards
Tony

www.touringcarspares.com

Ryan

Tony hope your happy with your loom im sure you will be

Moose 130

I think YUM runs std escos coils and has problems with thier life span.

Ryan

yum runs small turbo coilpack system though doesnt he?

Mark Shead

Yum used to run a standard small turbo coil set-up but these gave problems due to there age, Now runs 2 twin output coils,
Just because it doesnt have a miss doesnt mean the spark is as good as it could be,
A Autronic dealer tested a twin turbo big block boat engine this was making 1100hp with no misses then tested a Autronic CDI system this gained 100hp with no other mods to engine, This is not saying that Autronic CDI is best but what it is saying unless you have tested 2 or more systems under the same test conditions I.E Engine dyno to get repeteable contions you do not know if one is better than the other,
You may not know that you are running out of spark energy until you test it.

Mark

markk

iTrader: (2)

that sounds like an unbelievable story tbh , if someone told you that down the pub or even in my workshop i just turn round an say yeh ok, i dont disbelieve you mark (especially seeing as its you that said it) i;d have to see the proof myself back to back , 100 horse is alot on spark performance alone

markk

iTrader: (2)

10 hp i would say fully understandable

Mark Shead

markk, We are dealing with something that makes 1200hp so the gains % wise is under 10%, This shows you the Igition system before was being totaly over powered,
I had a cossie engine on the dyno this was making 480hp on a single coil but was also having misfiring problems this cost of 40hp when this was happening,
the next engine the same spec but on twin coil made a easy 500hp with no other diff than the coils.

Mark

ImaRacing 700

To diss Mark@MAD is just being a pure cock IMO

markk

iTrader: (2)

i can fully agree mark on a system that is not functioning correctly , you didnt say that the ignition wasnt at optimum you just said an ignition swap from the std setup as used by the owner to autronic gained 100hp my own engine made more power on twin coil pack setup at the top end of the rev range with the restrictor in .................................................




simpley because it was missing its fookin knob off on boost with the dizzy setup

Ryan

For people who run coilpacks, do you run the suppressor. ?

Mark Shead

markk, On the boat engine there was no apparent problem with it, This was tried as a test with another type of Ignition system not as a problem solver, what was discoverd doing this is the system that was being used was out of its depth with the spark energy vers cylinder pressure.

Mark

markk

iTrader: (2)

so it wasnt just purely because weve fitted autronic ? its simply because weve fitted parts that are for the intended purpose i.e not mickey mouse

i was thinking of putting a turbo off a smart car on the rally car , but i dont think i'll bother now

get my drift ?

CozzyBrom

end of the day u cozzy boys still need onr of these anf fuk that dizzy off

Mark Shead

markk,It was not a Autronic sale pitch, The pre units where 4 twin output coils and 4 Bosch 008 Igntion amps so this system was not mickey mouse and was tech up to the task,
A Mickey mouse system would have been a single Igntion amp and a dizzy ,
What it is saying is unless you test stuff correctly you may be loosing HP without even knowing it and keep playing with stuff and throwing money in the wrong place , This is why Rods car had all the right bits to start with when you look at what it was being spec'ed for with the cylinder pressures involved.

Mark

markk

iTrader: (2)

im not saying it was by any means, but what you said was this engine gained a mahhhooosive amount of power even by its own standard just from changing from a perfectlg working no fault ignition system to another superiro design and gained all this power - im saying without a fault in either the specification or he system itself theres no way it would gain so much , so id say that you worded it slightly wrong in the 1st place thoug i think we both know where your coming from now

Ryan

cool wasnt sure if it was need on the 12v supply on the coilpack like they are on some moden cars.

Disabled Account

I still dont know how it works Brom - theres no wires or cap or clips....

Anyway, if you want to sell lots of them, it's no good putting it on cooker hob (must say, very clean cooker )

Maybe best to make it look SEXY and something that everybody wants and needs on their Cossie:

CozzyBrom

doug can you make the message burd hold it

Stu @ M Developments

iTrader: (12)

Great topic for a change.. just need to change the topic STARTER to make it one for the essays forum

I know where your coming from Mark, i suspect the motor was making 1100HP with quite high exhaust HC content and the extra energy simply converted what fuel was being lost through inefficiency back into useable energy. Like you say, a gain of really only 8.33% technically!

CoilPacks rock.. in most formats... distributor caps and rotors are archaic. Perhaps we should complete the system by retrofitting a set of points instead of teh ignition Amp too

Disabled Account

Ryan