3 dr cosworth stolen today
27-10-2018, 08:39 AM
#81
PassionFord Post Whore!!
It's up to them to prove you didn't use reasonable force, as long as you can justify your actions and don't use excessive force, you need to justify that your actions are necessary, reasonable and proportionate
Section 3(1) of the Criminal Law Act 1967 states that any person may use such force as is reasonable in the circumstances in preventing a crime or in effecting or assisting in the lawful arrest of offenders or suspected offenders or of persons unlawfully at large
I won't go into the ins and outs but it's worth interested parties to do a bit of googling and arm yourself with the law to protect yourself, family and your property, I had to learn this in my job to protect myself when dealing with violent people
Section 3(1) of the Criminal Law Act 1967 states that any person may use such force as is reasonable in the circumstances in preventing a crime or in effecting or assisting in the lawful arrest of offenders or suspected offenders or of persons unlawfully at large
I won't go into the ins and outs but it's worth interested parties to do a bit of googling and arm yourself with the law to protect yourself, family and your property, I had to learn this in my job to protect myself when dealing with violent people
27-10-2018, 10:50 PM
#82
It's up to them to prove you didn't use reasonable force, as long as you can justify your actions and don't use excessive force, you need to justify that your actions are necessary, reasonable and proportionate
Section 3(1) of the Criminal Law Act 1967 states that any person may use such force as is reasonable in the circumstances in preventing a crime or in effecting or assisting in the lawful arrest of offenders or suspected offenders or of persons unlawfully at large
I won't go into the ins and outs but it's worth interested parties to do a bit of googling and arm yourself with the law to protect yourself, family and your property, I had to learn this in my job to protect myself when dealing with violent people
Section 3(1) of the Criminal Law Act 1967 states that any person may use such force as is reasonable in the circumstances in preventing a crime or in effecting or assisting in the lawful arrest of offenders or suspected offenders or of persons unlawfully at large
I won't go into the ins and outs but it's worth interested parties to do a bit of googling and arm yourself with the law to protect yourself, family and your property, I had to learn this in my job to protect myself when dealing with violent people
The law is a fucking disgrace and embarrassment, and all those who work within it should be going nuts about it. Anyone caught stealing a car ( which will often be used as a weapon thereafter ), breaking into houses etc etc....you really should be allowed to use extreme force against them. In this respect it is so unfortunate guns arent readily available here. Although downside if they were....more thieving gypsy bastards would also have them
28-10-2018, 08:25 AM
#83
PassionFord Regular
ive been there a few times with this part of the law in everyday life, one example was when detaining a guy who was chucking wheelie bins at my 95 year old neighbours house at 3am in the morning, the long and short was I went out and told him to stop, he was verbally aggressive and came towards me with aggressive body language, I told him to think about what he was doing but he continued to advance with aggression so before he could strike, to stop myself getting an injury I assisted him into a position on the floor to restrain him until the police arrived, that was reasonable in that situation and the force I used was necessary and proportionate in the situation
28-10-2018, 10:10 AM
#84
I'm well aware of the law....but when you have the option to walk away and not place anyone at risk....reasonable, necessary and proportionate become very grey areas.
Your scenario is different than someone stealing a car, because at that point in time you are stating that someone was at risk. Defense of either yourself or a third party does open up more options. The same will not always apply to theft of objects.
And lets face it, anyone challenging someone stealing a car, is unlikely to do so without some sort of weapon they may have lifted, which creates lots of problems for you within the law regarding intent etc.
The bottom line is, the law will rarely work in your favour or to assist you.
Your scenario is different than someone stealing a car, because at that point in time you are stating that someone was at risk. Defense of either yourself or a third party does open up more options. The same will not always apply to theft of objects.
And lets face it, anyone challenging someone stealing a car, is unlikely to do so without some sort of weapon they may have lifted, which creates lots of problems for you within the law regarding intent etc.
The bottom line is, the law will rarely work in your favour or to assist you.
28-10-2018, 10:44 AM
#85
PassionFord Post Whore!!
You can use force that is reasonable, necessary and proportionate in the situation nothing more (remember those 3 words) so don't go over the top with what you do to stop them you have to justify your actions, the best thing I ever got told was "don't use a hammer to break an egg"
ive been there a few times with this part of the law in everyday life, one example was when detaining a guy who was chucking wheelie bins at my 95 year old neighbours house at 3am in the morning, the long and short was I went out and told him to stop, he was verbally aggressive and came towards me with aggressive body language, I told him to think about what he was doing but he continued to advance with aggression so before he could strike, to stop myself getting an injury I assisted him into a position on the floor to restrain him until the police arrived, that was reasonable in that situation and the force I used was necessary and proportionate in the situation
ive been there a few times with this part of the law in everyday life, one example was when detaining a guy who was chucking wheelie bins at my 95 year old neighbours house at 3am in the morning, the long and short was I went out and told him to stop, he was verbally aggressive and came towards me with aggressive body language, I told him to think about what he was doing but he continued to advance with aggression so before he could strike, to stop myself getting an injury I assisted him into a position on the floor to restrain him until the police arrived, that was reasonable in that situation and the force I used was necessary and proportionate in the situation
28-10-2018, 11:16 AM
#86
In any respects...hold them, take their photo for some evidence etc and if the cops are not on scene pronto, at some point you will have to let them go.
28-10-2018, 12:11 PM
#87
PassionFord Post Troll
And pray they respond in a reasonable time and you dont get into a false imprisonment charge by holding someone against their will.....shit doesnt always go the way it should, especially when the law is against you.
In any respects...hold them, take their photo for some evidence etc and if the cops are not on scene pronto, at some point you will have to let them go.
In any respects...hold them, take their photo for some evidence etc and if the cops are not on scene pronto, at some point you will have to let them go.
28-10-2018, 04:19 PM
#88
And tackling someone under such circumstances, is again very different than tackling them after picking up a weapon with intent to do so.
The police attitude to car theft is sure let them steal it, you should have insurance. Which is an utterly ridiculous attitude to have given the vehicle will very likely be used as a weapon and driven dangerously by the thief, nevermind the aftermath it causes to the innocent victim of the crime.
Last edited by stevieturbo; 28-10-2018 at 04:22 PM.
28-10-2018, 06:14 PM
#89
10K+ Poster!!
A shoplifter in Hereford made a dash for the door after the security guard challenged him...unluckily for the shoplifter 4 acting Hereford soldiers (sas) were collecting for charity outside.
when the police asked why the shoplifter was in such a bad way the soldiers responded "clumbsy fucker kept falling over" and no further action was taken against the soldiers...the story is from a well known SAS book.
when the police asked why the shoplifter was in such a bad way the soldiers responded "clumbsy fucker kept falling over" and no further action was taken against the soldiers...the story is from a well known SAS book.
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Glenn_ (31-10-2018)
28-10-2018, 07:46 PM
#90
PassionFord Post Troll
No, you've just re-enforced exactly what I stated. The whole necessary and proportionate will of course give you more support in the defense of a person/life, as opposed to belongings or objects like a car.
And tackling someone under such circumstances, is again very different than tackling them after picking up a weapon with intent to do so.
The police attitude to car theft is sure let them steal it, you should have insurance. Which is an utterly ridiculous attitude to have given the vehicle will very likely be used as a weapon and driven dangerously by the thief, nevermind the aftermath it causes to the innocent victim of the crime.
And tackling someone under such circumstances, is again very different than tackling them after picking up a weapon with intent to do so.
The police attitude to car theft is sure let them steal it, you should have insurance. Which is an utterly ridiculous attitude to have given the vehicle will very likely be used as a weapon and driven dangerously by the thief, nevermind the aftermath it causes to the innocent victim of the crime.
stabbed burglar and killed him, not facing any charges so Im not really following what your saying tbh?
28-10-2018, 08:03 PM
#91
https://amp.theguardian.com/uk-news/...ruder-released
stabbed burglar and killed him, not facing any charges so Im not really following what your saying tbh?
It's pretty clear. Once again you've re-enforced what I said.
Someone stealing your car but posing no actual threat to yourself is a totally different scenario, and as much as you should be allowed to use lethal force against thieves like that...the law as it stands currently will say otherwise.
28-10-2018, 08:40 PM
#92
10K+ Poster!!
I think a judge and jury would be pretty forgiving of force against force. As one judge recently said "you have the right to expect to be attacked"
28-10-2018, 08:56 PM
#93
Too many posts.. I need a life!!
He got away without charge as he only stabbed him once, which was classed as defence as he was protecting himself & his wife. Had he stabbed him a second time then the outcome would have been different & he would've been charged with manslaughter.
29-10-2018, 11:02 PM
#94
PassionFord Regular
That's just jumping to conclusions, I have an action plan before I even get in the situation, it starts verbal, then go one of 2 ways either straight catch and detain when they try and run or if they attempt to use violence or what they are trying to steal the car with against me (which would then become a threat to a person not an object) then I move up the scale of force to suit the circumstance and im sure the people reading are clever enough to do the same and not go straight in with something to hurt the criminal with
29-10-2018, 11:53 PM
#95
Tackling someone willing to steal and in the process of stealing a car without the expectation of them having a weapon and being willing to use it....would be extremely naive....hence it would almost be foolish for someone to tackle them without first pre-empting this and lifting something to use to assist. The problem of pre-empting by lifting a weapon is it then puts you in a very dodgy legal position. And nor you do know if they're working alone, or if others are nearby.
Many people have been killed and injured tackling such people.
However, even despite this, within the law if you lift a weapon first in order to target someone like that, who is not presently posing any risk of harm to yourself or others nor made any threats to that effect, will leave you in an extremely risky place legally if you attack and injure that person with that weapon because you were the first person showing intent to cause harm at that time.
Of course a potential get out would be to say you seen they had a weapon and they did make threats to yourself and others...but you need to have the presence of mind to say these things at the earliest opportunity once the police start taking details to try and cover your ass.
It's easy to try and quote what someone has told you in a textbook or classroom to try and be a hero....which all too often will not properly cover the potential legal battle after any event where the criminal will almost always have better lawyers at no expense to themselves, when you the working person will have to pay to make your defence in court etc
It's different for police where they will have weapons available to them ( whether they can actually use them to best effect or not ), they will have legal support etc etc vs the general public or even some jacked up security guard.
By all means these people do need tackled, they do need severely beaten, they need punished with within the law and society, but the legal system doesnt always see things that way...and certainly never fully trust the law to be your friend !
Many people have been killed and injured tackling such people.
However, even despite this, within the law if you lift a weapon first in order to target someone like that, who is not presently posing any risk of harm to yourself or others nor made any threats to that effect, will leave you in an extremely risky place legally if you attack and injure that person with that weapon because you were the first person showing intent to cause harm at that time.
Of course a potential get out would be to say you seen they had a weapon and they did make threats to yourself and others...but you need to have the presence of mind to say these things at the earliest opportunity once the police start taking details to try and cover your ass.
It's easy to try and quote what someone has told you in a textbook or classroom to try and be a hero....which all too often will not properly cover the potential legal battle after any event where the criminal will almost always have better lawyers at no expense to themselves, when you the working person will have to pay to make your defence in court etc
It's different for police where they will have weapons available to them ( whether they can actually use them to best effect or not ), they will have legal support etc etc vs the general public or even some jacked up security guard.
By all means these people do need tackled, they do need severely beaten, they need punished with within the law and society, but the legal system doesnt always see things that way...and certainly never fully trust the law to be your friend !
30-10-2018, 11:49 AM
#96
Fixed that for you.
Its rare that I hear of police going after the real criminals, only ever hear people getting caught for motorist offences which is a shame as the country needs the bigger crimes dealing with. They need more bobbies on the beat and more power when they do catch people rather than people getting let off because they have a decent lawyer or technicalities.
Its rare that I hear of police going after the real criminals, only ever hear people getting caught for motorist offences which is a shame as the country needs the bigger crimes dealing with. They need more bobbies on the beat and more power when they do catch people rather than people getting let off because they have a decent lawyer or technicalities.
30-10-2018, 12:55 PM
#97
10K+ Poster!!
It may be an old chestnut but it has become one for a reason.
I watched a documentary yesterday about the Millenium Dome attempted Ł380m Diamond theft and the Head of the flying squad said that they needed to let the robbers actually try and pick up the stones as they had, in the past, seen masked men holding guns get off armed robbery as their legal teams had argued that they were not there to commit a robbery...they needed to catch them red handed.
With Lawyers like that defending people and getting them off it is no wonder with a lack of Bobbies that they do not have the time or money to go after low to medium level car crime where it is hard to secure a conviction.
I watched a documentary yesterday about the Millenium Dome attempted Ł380m Diamond theft and the Head of the flying squad said that they needed to let the robbers actually try and pick up the stones as they had, in the past, seen masked men holding guns get off armed robbery as their legal teams had argued that they were not there to commit a robbery...they needed to catch them red handed.
With Lawyers like that defending people and getting them off it is no wonder with a lack of Bobbies that they do not have the time or money to go after low to medium level car crime where it is hard to secure a conviction.
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Caddyshack (30-10-2018)
30-10-2018, 04:41 PM
#99
Well lets face it, when they are always shouting about lack of funding and resources....how on earth do they find so many resources to have cops standing holding speed guns every day ? That is time/money utterly wasted. If they were so stretched...then there are absolutely far more important things for those cops to be doing.
If they have so much time to throw thousands of cops at speed gun duty...then clearly there need to be redundancies, not more cops !
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30-10-2018, 05:29 PM
#100
PassionFord Post Troll
Just seen on fb 4 guys kicking in a front door at 630 pm drag the owner out and pin him down on the drive why the others get his keys and rs6 out of the garage Mrs and 3 yr old kid in the house not worth your life really is it
30-10-2018, 05:53 PM
#101
PassionFord Post Whore!!
Join Date: Dec 2009
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Originally Posted by smiley
Just seen on fb 4 guys kicking in a front door at 630 pm drag the owner out and pin him down on the drive why the others get his keys and rs6 out of the garage Mrs and 3 yr old kid in the house not worth your life really is it
30-10-2018, 06:16 PM
#102
10K+ Poster!!
4 people doing that, what is a stolen RS 6 worth Ł10k? 2.5k each before other people take their fee for cutting it up etc...yet they will ruin a families feeling of safety and potentially risk prison. I often wonder what they tell their Mum’s that they do for a living?
30-10-2018, 07:06 PM
#103
PassionFord Post Troll
It is out of order and control it's getting like the wild west I grew up on a rough inner city estate that was my drive in life to get out of it and make a better life for when I have kids as didn't want the same for them my old girl is still thier it's changed far more violent stabbings shootings robberies an every day thing I think this is where this brazen in broad daylight stuff is comming from the kids comming up in this are becomming fearless as they live in a climate of constant fear on the street they say we're 10 yrs behind America well the gang part is looking like it
Last edited by smiley; 30-10-2018 at 07:08 PM.
30-10-2018, 08:52 PM
#105
Hard to know if it's good or bad...but isnt it sad that there is a page like this on FB
https://www.facebook.com/groups/stolenoldskoolfords/
But hopefully it can help recover some of the cars and see their owners get some justice.
https://www.facebook.com/groups/stolenoldskoolfords/
But hopefully it can help recover some of the cars and see their owners get some justice.
31-10-2018, 09:50 PM
#106
Too many posts.. I need a life!!
Hard to know if it's good or bad...but isnt it sad that there is a page like this on FB
https://www.facebook.com/groups/stolenoldskoolfords/
But hopefully it can help recover some of the cars and see their owners get some justice.
https://www.facebook.com/groups/stolenoldskoolfords/
But hopefully it can help recover some of the cars and see their owners get some justice.
if anyone's on Facebook, feel free to send a member request to join it
31-10-2018, 10:01 PM
#107
The sheer volume of car theft is ridiculous, and even worse is the police response to it, and that of the authorities. Especially for the likes of stuff that ends up at breakers or salvage type yards. There should be a legal requirement for any of them taking in any vehicle chassis or parts thereof to hold them for 30 days untouched in case of any legal/theft issues, and there should be very severe penalties if they do take in anything stolen. We are always told ignorance of laws etc are never an excuse for flouting them, so the same should apply even more so to places like that when they take in cars.
And I'll repeat again...and whilst they may not always be effective, trackers are so damn cheap these days, why not have one fitted ?
01-11-2018, 08:01 AM
#108
10K+ Poster!!
I do have a tracker but the thing I don’t like is the annual subscriptions and then service for the battery etc...at least an alarm (for what it’s worth) is a one off cost.
You can fit a track it yourself tracker but what can you do with that? Sit outside and wait a week for nobody to come? There is a pistonheads thread where the bloke told the insurance co and police where his expensive motorbike bike was and nobody came, the insurance paid out and told him not to try and be a hero. He could see the bike locked up in a wheelie bin store at a block of flats. A few people offered to tool up and help him get it back but it amounted to nothing.
You can fit a track it yourself tracker but what can you do with that? Sit outside and wait a week for nobody to come? There is a pistonheads thread where the bloke told the insurance co and police where his expensive motorbike bike was and nobody came, the insurance paid out and told him not to try and be a hero. He could see the bike locked up in a wheelie bin store at a block of flats. A few people offered to tool up and help him get it back but it amounted to nothing.
01-11-2018, 09:51 AM
#109
PassionFord Post Whore!!
I do have a tracker but the thing I dont like is the annual subscriptions and then service for the battery etc...at least an alarm (for what its worth) is a one off cost.
You can fit a track it yourself tracker but what can you do with that? Sit outside and wait a week for nobody to come? There is a pistonheads thread where the bloke told the insurance co and police where his expensive motorbike bike was and nobody came, the insurance paid out and told him not to try and be a hero. He could see the bike locked up in a wheelie bin store at a block of flats. A few people offered to tool up and help him get it back but it amounted to nothing.
You can fit a track it yourself tracker but what can you do with that? Sit outside and wait a week for nobody to come? There is a pistonheads thread where the bloke told the insurance co and police where his expensive motorbike bike was and nobody came, the insurance paid out and told him not to try and be a hero. He could see the bike locked up in a wheelie bin store at a block of flats. A few people offered to tool up and help him get it back but it amounted to nothing.
01-11-2018, 05:04 PM
#110
I just have a tracker I monitor myself, and it alerts myself. Annual subscription to the tracking thingy and SIM card is around Ł60 or so which isnt unreasonable.
02-11-2018, 12:39 AM
#111
Advanced PassionFord User
Most stuff in America from what I've seen is a bit more safe depending what area you are in as people never know how many guns the owners have on them/in their house. Few people I know there have quite a few guns at home, but yes there are some really bad areas. I've followed the twat nav as it has taken me past some real rough areas, I was sitting behind a car while they was blatantly doing a drug deal in broad daylight, sort of area just stare straight ahead and ignore everything else and get out the area.
02-11-2018, 09:28 AM
#112
PassionFord Post Troll
Agreed on the deterent of guns I actually felt quiet defenceless when we're in a villa in Florida for 3 wks though the last guests left carving knife in the bed side draws lol something needs to change here some change in the law on defending yourself and property it's getting lawless
02-11-2018, 05:17 PM
#113
PassionFord Post Whore!!
Only if you're paying for a system that offers that service...and the police actually have any time/interest to respond as you would want.
I just have a tracker I monitor myself, and it alerts myself. Annual subscription to the tracking thingy and SIM card is around Ł60 or so which isnt unreasonable.
I just have a tracker I monitor myself, and it alerts myself. Annual subscription to the tracking thingy and SIM card is around Ł60 or so which isnt unreasonable.
02-11-2018, 06:34 PM
#114
Lets face it, this entire thread and many others show how interested the police are to instantly jump on such things, whether they dont care or they dont have resources.
Why would paying some jacked up call centre make that any different really ? No money is going to the police to magically create you as a priority regardless of who operates the tracker.
But yes if you felt you wouldnt be able to or have someone able to respond to such alerts....you could place your faith in someone else who might contact the police.
02-11-2018, 07:21 PM
#115
10K+ Poster!!
I want a nasty mother fucker tracker...car gets stolen and the perp gets a knock on the door from a nasty double hard bastard.
02-11-2018, 09:25 PM
#118
10K+ Poster!!
02-11-2018, 10:12 PM
#119
I've found that life I needed.. It's HERE!!
South Africa used to have cars that had flame thrower under the sills ,so if anyone tried to steel it or say jack the car at the lights you just set them on fire,don’t no if it’s still legal there but damm good deterrent
02-11-2018, 10:15 PM
#120
PassionFord Post Troll
Haha I remember seeing that I worked with a doorman from sa some of the stories now that is a crazy place
