1300gt

iTrader: (2)

I'm looking to run a red top facet as a lift pump to my swirl pot before it gets to the 044 pump.

6-7 psi. 33 imperial gallons. 40 US.

All low pressure lines are -8 jic . 11.1mm

X4 injectors. Single rail.

Bsfc .6, but I'm running later ASNU 30 degree multi hole injectors!?

Is this pump up to the job?

Mark Shead

I would want the lift pump to be doing 4lt per min to keep up with injector flow.

Mark

1300gt

iTrader: (2)

Would mine be leaning out?

Mark Shead

The swirl pot will be emptying if the flow is not enough. Not worked out what the gallons were in lt only said what it should be in lt as that's what I work with.

Mark

Turbosystems

iTrader: (5)

You'd need to run two of the facet pumps

stevieturbo

Just use a proper pump instead of a piece of shit.

Although if using a custom tank etc...always best to design it so no swirl tank needed.

Turbosystems

iTrader: (5)

I didn't dare post that lol

stevieturbo

Pumps like that do have their place....40 years ago lol

Turbosystems

iTrader: (5)

Noah had a 2 on his ark

1300gt

iTrader: (2)

Silly boys ! Lol

4ltr min
240ltr hour
So that's 63 US gallons ... That's what's needed?.. Facet is 40.

It's funny how I've see a curtain old ford that runs reg 10s at the strip that's got 523 plus a shot of gas .. Thats only on one red top?.. Can not see another lift pump on it !??

Turbosystems

iTrader: (5)

It only has to supply enough fuel for 10 seconds you could probably do that with an old hand pump

1300gt

iTrader: (2)

Probably...?

I suspect your on to something here.

However it's not worth loosing an expensive engine over if I were to try some high speed runs. That's if...

Cosnada

iTrader: (2)

Tend to agree that the red top is a bit dated with other stuff more readily available.
Make sure all power supply to pumps is decent and adequate as this can have a dramatic effect on efficiency too.

1300gt

iTrader: (2)

Their has been some silly comments made. It makes me laugh.

If something is old is it rubbish?

Their is always more technically advanced methods.

Old ford gt40s on quad 48 down draw carbs could make over 400hp with much poorer BSFC than a YB..

That's on a red top. They are quite reliable.. However if it's not fit for the actual job in hand that's another matter.

1300gt

iTrader: (2)

Spot on mate.

I suspect quoted delivers are at 12v, however at 13.5 or more a 40 US gallon red top, or any other could make significantly more

stevieturbo

So you say they quote 40GPH ( US ) for the red top. That's a feeble 160LPH

Not a hope in hell is it ever supplying a reliable 550hp...or even 450.,..maybe at a push 350hp.

But probably around 300hp worth of fuel in the real world.

I see Merlin are listing it as a 45GPH....for 240HP engines.

If you can prove/verify it actually flows more than this in the real world, then that is a different matter. But on paper....woeful.

Of course Bosch officially quote only 180LPH for their 044, but it's well know it flows substantially more.
Most other makers seem to inflate their flow figures !

Might be enough fuel in the float bowls already lol

Turbosystems

iTrader: (5)

As I advised on post 5 you will need to run 2

1300gt

iTrader: (2)

Opinions please on the holly range?

I'm thinking about the red top quoted at 97 US gallons hour if I remember?

Cheers guys

Mark Shead

if you have it flow test it by running it in to a can for 1min this will tell you installed flow.
Warning playing with fuel can be dangerous have a fire extinguisher to hand.

Mark

1300gt

iTrader: (2)

I wasn't intending to have a cigy on the go lol.. Holly it is then!

steveboyslim

Unregulated blue Holly is what Ford used as a lift pump, still good today 110 GPH or 416 LPH

Steve

1300gt

iTrader: (2)

It seems the blue and black pump need to be regulated?.. They look over kill to me lol

turbotrev

What about using a 044 pump to feed the swirl pot?

Cheers Paul

steveboyslim

Neither need to be regulated if the swirl pot has a return, as FoMoCo installed on some of their works competition cars.

Steve

1300gt

iTrader: (2)

Hi Paul , it's volume you need on the lift side I'm sure mate

turbotrev

Would a 044 not do that then?

Cheers Paul

costina

iTrader: (1)

As said 2 facet red tops or do what i did many years ago and run a holley blue pump this will keep up with the demand and with the return from rail back to the swirl pot will keep it topped up.
Holley blue pumps are expensive 170 quid. Then there is unions etc.
The holley is a rotor vane type and quite in comparision to a red top.

Choice is yours of cousre. And the genuine GT40 we had at work was running 2 holley pumps and rememeber they have as said float chambers and dont have a fuel return like an injected car so will not need to FLOW that much fuel.

Paul

Martin-Hadland

iTrader: (2)

Blue top Holley will be fine, I've used these on high speed runs.

stevieturbo

It certainly would. As long as it ties in with the design of the system. He hasnt given any details though

1300gt

iTrader: (2)

Yes the swirl will be returning to main tank via a -6 jic. Main tank has a sump for lowest point of pick up.

I've spoken to think automotive with regard to holly red pump. *not ordered yet*

The blue holly is supplied with a regulator for ( carb set ups? )

Max delivery press 7psi for red. 14psi for blue. With no added reg.

So blue holly *without* regulator to charge my swirl .. ?

Would that be suitable that my return from swirl to tank is - 6 in size .. ? Or bigger ?

Proper info fellas cheers!

1300gt

iTrader: (2)

I'm thinking the fuel tank breather one way valve may see too much pressure with this blue holly pump and shut off my breather ?!

If I blow directly on the breather pipe to the valve disconnected from the tank it lifts and snaps shut .. (As you would expect).

However would return pressure that will be constantly cycling from my swirl also cause this effect of "closing" my tank breather valve .. ?

I'm using a rally style shaped 12 gallon alloy rwd escort type of tank.

Cosnada

iTrader: (2)

Facet blue pumps are about Ł90 on ebay from reputable outlets. I may be looking at the wrong thing tho?

Cosnada

iTrader: (2)

I like the triple 044 holders and would consider this route.

costina

iTrader: (1)

Holley blue pump without reg to feed swirl pot.my old setup was 1.5 litre but now 2 litre.
-6 feed and return will be fine. Make sure you fit a decent filter between tank and holley and after the 044 for injectors.
Ensure good wiring and voltages to both pumps.

Job done.

stevieturbo

For a suitable tank, and that isnt the low pressure side.

But again he hasnt given any details of the tank setup.

But building a tank with in-tank pumps, is pretty much the simplest and neatest solution instead of needing swirl tanks etc.

costina

iTrader: (1)

Too be honest why dont you just buy a escort tank with a swirl pot inside and run 2 x 044 pumps to feed engine this will give ulitimate safety and will be cheaper.

I can not do this in my cortina as i wanted to retain the std tank with no external pumps visable.
I costed a custom alloy tank from concept racing and that would be around 700 quid then cost of fittings pipe etc it all adds up.

Paul

stevieturbo

Those generic Escort tanks with the outlet on only one side, really are a terrible design.

There would need to be some miracle work inside for them to be efficient.

ajamesc

I was lead to believe 2 044's is not the way to go because if one go's down your not know and be running lean. But then I'm sure one 044 fuels up to around 600 so just fit one lol. I've a swirl pot in mine as my aftermarket fuel tank surges like fuck that's fed by an 044

costina

iTrader: (1)

Andy have you got an after market tank?

ajamesc

Yep never had a single issue with the Ford one but it was getting really rusty. So got a none genuine one with a metal swirl in it unlike the original larger plastic one. Had it aero quipped and paint fitted it and it surged like fuck. Had to fit the swirl pot to stop it. Mines an 044 tank to swirl then 044 swirl to rail. When it go's back together I'll see what mark suggests as the rail will be now fed by an aeromotive pump