doga-ot

iTrader: (1)

I want to fit coilovers on my saph and been told by numerous to go bilstein coilovers but i cannot find where to buy them even looked on bilsteins website!

Marc sierra

iTrader: (1)

I don't think you can buy new Bilstein coilovers. As far as I know the Bilstein coilovers are the ones used on Group A and Group N cars, so the Group N items would be the ones to fit to a road car. I think those coilovers come either in gravel or tarmac spec. I guess the tarmac spec would be far too hard for a road car, but I'm not sure if the gravel items are good to use as standard. Besides that the Bilstein coilovers are not adjustable.


I would also expect that shock absorbers have advanced over time, and the Group N items design will be about 25 years old. So perhaps a set of BAD or Gaz Gold would be a better option as I suppose those use more modern technology (and are adjustable).

Adam-M

I agree they maybe the best for other marquees but I haven't seen any new ones for a cosworth. BAD are probably the best (haven't tried them but they should be good for what they charge) and Gaz golds are good on a road car. Haven't tried the top of the range Avo's to see what they're like on the road.

Caddyshack

Rod runs Leda on his Cossie, not sure if just shocks or coilovers, assume they may be off the shelf.

Jay,

iTrader: (4)

Rods are valves and weighted for the car . Provably better off with ohlins if you have the cash

Caddyshack

What does a set of ohlins run at? A mate said they transformed his TVR.

Jay,

iTrader: (4)

about a grand up to 5 Toby depends how speced you go but 1k would be good for a good setup

zetaboostboy522bhp

I looked into ohlins , proflex , avo , these are just crazy prices but you get what you pay for end of.
Just for the ohlins 45mm inserts 3 way adjustble they was £1250 + vat each and a bespoke case was £450 +vat each
Pro flex are 45mm £1800+vat each and 55mm £2000+vat each for one complete unit.
Reiger are around £6500 to £8000 for a complete set. Second hand set is worth £2500. +
Avo are around £1200 per complete strut
Gaz I wouldn't even entertain as I thought they were shit
Bilsteins are very good but are fixed valved so they do have there down falls. The build quality and the inverted insert makes the a solid budget choice for rallying etc and for a more race spec road suspension system.
You can buy bilsteins in two ways.
First buy a new set of bilsteins built to original spec using the 41 mm inserts , this is what the sierra group a and group n cars used just with different cases one to match the WRC upright ( group a ) and one to match the the original uprights ( group n ) .
You can buy these from ATM as they have started remaking them for the historic racing series. ( getting parts from bilstein direct is a real nightmare)
I think they are around £950 for a full set.
The other option is making you own using universal bilstein cases available in different lengths from many places using the 40mm inserts that are used on mk1 / mk2 escorts . They are available in many different rates for both tarmac and gravel also in short and long travel. The plus side to doing this is all parts are off the shelf , inserts , collars , top hats. Etc etc the only real problem you would have is making the cases fit your uprights but if you are good with a welder and can get someone to do simple machining then there's no problems at all.
If you buy the original group n bilsteins getting spares is very hard and if I remember right you have to machine the holes that clamps the casing out a little.

Hope this helps

P.s I have x4 new universal cases with bushes and wiper seals for sale , have a look at my for sale thread

Cheers paul

Marc sierra

iTrader: (1)

Getting a second hand Group N set of for instance Proflex could be an option. But I always wonder how you would know whether those dampers are suitable for fast road/occasional track use, as I suppose the tarmac spec items would be way too hard. I believe the spring rates for the coilovers for road use are quite well known, something like front 350 lbs/inch and rear 180 lbs/inch. But how would you know whether the dampers suit those spring rates?

Paul_RS

iTrader: (4)

You can get new Bilstein coilovers from Fred Crawford in Larne. Your choice of inserts and spring rates.

zetaboostboy522bhp

Are they 40 mm or 41 mm inserts

Cheers paul

zetaboostboy522bhp

Full set of mag bilsteins that have just rebuild front and rears on eBay £750

Marc sierra

iTrader: (1)

The rear ones on eBay are labelled 350/130. What does that mean and are those suitable for road use?

5hane

Anyone used BAD coilovers?

I think R and B Motorsport supply them, but their site is down due to the recent fire i think - not sure if/ when they will be available again?

Mark V8

iTrader: (2)

I bought a set through Mike Rainbird, but have yet to try them





They look pretty enough !


PM me if you would like Mike's email address, alternatively you could contact BAD direct


http://www.blackartdesigns.com/

jonfoc

Stick some ledas on it!

Paul_RS

iTrader: (4)

41mm

He can supply mag rears as well.

Marc sierra

iTrader: (1)

Is there more info available on the Ledas? With price and specs (and pics) it's easier to compare with for instance Gaz, Bad and Bilstein. But I can't find any info on the Ledas.

jonfoc

Pm'd you mate

Marc sierra

iTrader: (1)

Has anyone ever tried main springs with tender springs on a Cosworth with coilovers? The tender spring should only have a little travel left so it can give a softer ride, but during cornering or braking the tender spring is fully compressed (on one side) so body roll and pitch is limited by the much stiffer main spring.


http://eibach.com/america/en/perform...l-over-springs


I guess it is comparable to progressive springs, but here you can tune the rates yourself. Besides, I wouldn't know where to get progressive coilover springs with the correct rates and lengths for a Cosworth.

jonfoc

These have been specced by customers at Leda a good few times. We had very good feedback but they are very expensive. One thing we have seen numerous times is the green flat wound spring break. After a few years that is. I suppose it depends on your use ie, forest, tarmac, track etc.
Marc in answer to your pm, I can't find a comparison chart to help you with the inserts.

Marc sierra

iTrader: (1)

Thanks for looking. Perhaps you can shed some light on how the valving of a shock would be determined. Is it enough to know the spring rate and the weight of the car to specify how the valving of the shock should be?

And in that case, doesn't it give problems with the dual spring that you actually have two different spring rates, so the shock can only be specified to one of the spring rates?

Marc sierra

iTrader: (1)

Just came across this website: https://www.ntp.it/english/motorsport/marken/ford.html


It seems like an Italian company converts Bilstein PSS10 coilovers to be fitted to the Sierra, for both Group N and Group A fitment. It seems like a very nice option, but I have no idea what they cost.

zetaboostboy522bhp

They look pretty decent as they are adjustable over the original ford items. Dewitts sell group n bilstein cases and inserts front and rear to fit on the original uprights .
I've been looking into some decent suspension prices and they are eye watering expensive

Proflex
3 way adjustable with top mounts and camber adjustable washers
45 mm insert £1550 + vat each
Same as above but evo 4 twin tube unit £1807 +vat

Ast suspension

3 way adjustable damper with top mounts and camber adjustable washers
50mm inserts with remote canisters with quick release hoses so you can take the canisters off

£3750 +vat

Now check this one out

Reiger

5062 suspension with remote cansisters and springs and top mounts and camber washers
50 inserts

£5243.08 inc vat

Options corner control valve £1555.72 inc vat

570 suspension rally spec strut with canisters mounted to the bottom of the strut
Springs , camber washers etc no top mounts
£10201.64 inc vat
Options

Corner control valve £ £3570 inc vat
Double piston £679
Rebound control £1271
Ball bearing all round £5162

That's over £22000 with all the options for a car set of 4 unit lol

Dms
One off custom built suspension , camber washers , custom valving , 50 mm inserts , alloy threaded knuckle on the bottom of strut so you can adjust height without changing spring settings.
8 week lead time

Car set of 4 units £6995 +vat


Cheers paul

zetaboostboy522bhp

You can also buy 41 mm bilsteins group a fitment from atm sport.

Cheerspaul

cossynut2

Paul, the costs of some of the suspension set-ups you have researched are unreal!! For a road car with a few track days who would spend £22,000 on the suspension? If you were building an out and out racing /rally car for a racing series then maybe but who needs this sort of set-up for the limited use that most of our cars get?

Marc sierra

iTrader: (1)

I've sent a mail to the company making the coilovers based on the Bilstein PSS10. The full kit is 3450 euro ex VAT. I was expecting a better price, seeing that a normal Bilstein B16 coilover kit (using the PSS10 dampers) for different cars costs about 1600 euro (incl. VAT).

zetaboostboy522bhp

Trust me I won't be using them lol I will stick to my bilsteins if they are good enough for ford Motorsport to use then there good enough for me.

zetaboostboy522bhp

Cosworth tax strikes again lol , atm make the cases for around £400 a pair +vat , the inserts are £250 each +vat or they sell a new complete unit for £739 + vat each so that still around £3000 for a set which I think is expensive for non adjustable units.
Bilstein do also make a universal rally strut with a 46 mm piston and is a Motorsport item , again they are non adjustable but come in many different rated inserts , the only down side is you would need to weld on your own mounting plates and the top of the insert is unmachined so you need to get it threaded. They are around $550 each and you can only order them from the USA.
The best and cheapest way would be to buy a 40 mm universal case weld your own mounting plates on and then buy one of many long / short and different rated 40 mm inserts . I made my own and they were just as good as the original bilstein with nearly the same rates to my genuine bilsteins which I purchased.
I've got x4 secondhand cases , x4 brand new inserts , locking collars , spring platforms etc , brand new bushes which even bilstein could not find or replace as they were 41mm . Getting them is a fucking nightmare but atmsport have released a rebuild kit but it is £112 +vat for each strut.

zetaboostboy522bhp

Here's the 40 mm ones I made

http://s457.photobucket.com/user/ZET...44221.jpg.html

http://s457.photobucket.com/user/ZET...6008c.jpg.html

Cheers paul

cossynut2

I have had Koni front struts/Eibach springs front and Bilstein struts /Eibach springs rear, lowered by 35mm , poly bushes throughout for a long time. Car corners really flat but of course ride is hard but I have got used to it. They were a sensible price as well!!

Marc sierra

iTrader: (1)

I also have Koni's but with Ahmed Bayjoo springs. I always thought the car cornered flat and the ride was quite stiff. But as soon as you go out on a track you find out the car rolls quite a bit.


This is mine on the Koni's and AB springs:





But I guess by now the Koni's are outdated technology. As far as I know they have been the same design since the car was new. Damper technology must have progressed in the last 30 years, so I would expect that Gaz Gold, BAD and the Bilstein PSS10 give better handling while being more compliant (with the correct spring rates fitted of course). I have always found the Koni's a bit harsh on the road. I am unsure about the Group N Bilsteins though, the technology is just as old as the Koni's, but at least the Bilsteins are monotube inverted dampers, which IMO is superior to the Koni twintube.

Marc sierra

iTrader: (1)

£3000 is indeed a lot of money for non adjustable Bilsteins. But in your earlier post (#8) you said they were about £950 for a full set from ATM?

Jay,

iTrader: (4)

The AB springs are crap and add konis into the mix you might as well add crossply tyres lol . Dont understand why people spend thousands in getting horse power and thousands in re inventing the wheel but wont spend anything on stuff that actually helps with the power lol

james kiely

iTrader: (5)

Personally I would go with ledas for about 350 plus vat a corner AFAIK. Jonfoc will be able to confirm. I loved them in my escort track car until I blew engine lol.
I am going to go with them for my 3dr track car when I'm ready

Marc sierra

iTrader: (1)

There is not much wrong with the AB springs. They are just a linear spring just like what everyone is using on coilovers. You could only say they would be too stiff or soft. But personally I think the springs are fine. It’s just the shocks that could be better.

zetaboostboy522bhp

If you read it correct I put I think they are £950 a set , and that was 1 year ago and there has been limited numbers of anything cosworth group a , n , or wrc and if they do become available then the price has at least doubled.
It is old technology but it's clearly very good , prodrive used a 50mm insert on there bilstein like some cosworth group a cars and they are rated as one of the cheapest and best suspensions made for a scooby.


Cheers paul

jonfoc

Cheers James. We are ready when you are.
Marc have you tried intrax for your suspension? They are over on your side of the channel. There's a guy there called Bart, he does his own stuff from memory.

As for price on Leda units, it's all dependant on spec.

jonfoc

Damper technology hasn't changed that much from what I've seen in my little experience. Apart of course from the high end stuff. It's all about controlling the displacement of fluid to dampen the the movement. Pistons, tubes, valves, shims, springs they all use variations of those things.

markk

iTrader: (2)

Same old.
People think hp makes you fast. Will spend 20k for 5/600hp but wont buy decent dampers.
A good 350hp Cossie with great suspension will piss all over something with 500hp and these generic crap coil overs that are around today.