3drRich

I'm at a stage with my project now that I've been thinking about the engine and decided I want touring car power so 500/550bhp I know the questions has be asked 1000 times but I'm keen to know people's opinions on what's required?

I'm also seriously considering giving it to a tuner to do the work required as I'm pretty good with bodywork/mechanics but I'm no engine builder. I'm hopefully going to get in contact with tremona garage soon as there 5mins from me and see what they say. Can anyone give me an idea on what a tuner would charge to build a 500+bhp engine?

One more question is I know I will have to update the management but to what? And also will the gearbox and diff stand up to this?? It is going to get used hard and on track.

Any advice would be most appreciated.

Caddyshack

I would go 6 degree beam and in a 2wd car stick with the standard diff for now, maybe get it refreshed as it may not lock well.

My 200 block is standard and 469bhp just from 7064 Borg Warner efr, decent intercooler, proper twin scroll manifold and set up by mark Shead.

For a proper 500 build you would ideally start with an arrow crank £2k, 200 block with 6 long studs. Oil squirt ideally, rods, pocketed pistons and head work to tuner spec. The efr that I have will do 530 bhp on that setup, more on a 7076. The big thing is the torque these make low down. You could also look at the cam.

I think you need 3 inch exhaust on this set up too. Hart inlet or similar would also be a good idea, I have coil on plug and 1000cc injectors with vipec.

My car is 4x4 and I went oppliger close ratio box, that would be great on track as it keeps the car on the boil the whole time, the cossie was a little over geared and you are very unlikely to ever do more than 150mph on a track day.

Caddyshack

I think a rebuild with no work would be £3k plus, a 500 spec would be £7kand up. But some tuners will still lob on a t4, wind up the boost and hand it back will all the lag in the world but maybe making the headline bhp.

3drRich

Thanks caddy shack. I have been buying a few bits like a 6degree beam and a few engine parts already. I'm not on a budget really but at the same time I want to keep it sensible.

3drRich

The engine I have had a rebuild 1000miles ago but won't know what's what till its pulled apart.

Caddyshack

Is it a 200 block?

3drRich

Regards tuners I want as close to Southampton as possible that's why I'm gonna try tremona as I know they do good work. The only issue with them is they don't map so I will have to see who they use.

3drRich

No mate

cossynut2

Richard and Malcom at Tremona have done many modifications on my 2wd Saff over the past 22 years and really know their stuff when it comes to Cosworth engines.They will be able to do everything you want apart from mapping. After the last lot of work they did for me I took my car up to MSD in Blackpool for mapping and the drive back to Southampton was pretty exciting!!

3drRich

Yeah I used to live by Rich and they used to look after a few mates rs turbos and did some work an a escos I had about 12 years ago. They are my first choice then I thought the same about using msd for the mapping.

Caddyshack

I think 500 is probably within the limit of the 205 block but 200 is the preferred. You can get away with the standard crank at that level but you need to consider that they are getting on 30yrs old and that is more than double the power they were made for.

3drRich

Yeah I have read that the 205 block should do 500. If I'm gonna go that route then I will need to take it apart and get it checked out.

3drRich

The spec I'm thinking is 83lb injectors' Swedish inlet, gt30, ported head and cams. If I can get away with not doing much in the bottom end that would be a bonus.

ajamesc

Ask who ever maps it what spec to go for so you get the best out of the job they do at the end

cossynut2

Similar spec to mine but I have a 200 block, Wasted spark ignition but milder cams to BD14 & BD16 which I presume you are going to use and mine only has a T38 turbo but still puts out about 450bhp.

3doorcozmess

I'm no builder and don't pretend to be but feel I know a little bit about cossie's.

my opinion 205 block I wouldn't push to 500 altho people have done it its risky so you could do it then it may let go. I'd get a 200 block if you can as there going up and up in price.

Swedish inlets are crap I wouldn't bother you can use a 4x4 or a small escort cosworth inlet for that power with a spacer save money.

Cams at 500bhp just change the inlet cam. installing a exhaust cam at that power level you may find the car laggy on the road, I've heard some many times the standard exhaust cam in a cossie is a good cam and don't need changing till big bhp 550+. Also install double valve springs.

GT30 turbo make sure you get the right one I think people rate the GT3071 for the 500bhp mark with good spool up response.

crank, rods, mahle 4x4 pistons all good to 500bhp, 550bhp at a push.

mapping I don't think you have a lot of choice?

Mark shead MAD up the M3 probably an hour from Southampton but only maps after market or James auto dynamics Dorset.

price range can so vary, I bought all my parts direct from companies Matt lewis, turbo dynamics and gave them all to my builder to install and put together and I was well happy with the price I was surprised on the cost to be honest.

hope this helps

Cheers si.

costina

iTrader: (1)

A big issue is people over cook the spec and get it wrong.
Cams are great only if set up correctly and bad mapping will see a good engine produce poor power and be very laggy.

205 will do the numbers but i would like it to be on std bore or max 0.5 bore.

Caddyshack

My friend had a 500 bhp engine on gt3071 mapped by Mark in his 205 (H20 COS,) he said it was quite laggy.

Mark Shead

In a straight race yours would be faster than that 205.

Mark

Caddyshack

Yes, I think you are right, he was of the same opinion as well.

gcfcos

I couldn't imagine what a 500bhp Cossie would feel like, I think if I went in one I wouldn't want to drive mine again lol. I went in a 380bhp saph years ago in mid winter and it felt brutal

costina

iTrader: (1)

Compared to a Borg it is laggy but can't be as bad as a T series turbo.?

Toby any idea what the engine spec was? As i will be running that turbo.

3drRich

Mark where are you based? Are you able to give me an idea of cost regards what I'm after? Cheers.

Caddyshack

Mark is not a trader on here so you will need to call or email him:

http://www.apra70.dsl.pipex.com/home/

He is in Maidenhead and well worth the trip but I think he will want to go EFR route and aftermarket ecu.

The spec I have noted in my posts are based on the advice he has given me so that will be the sort of idea.

Caddyshack

I believe the build is documented on detailing world forum but essentially I think it has inlet cam, long studded 200 block, Mark Spec head and autronic ecu iirc. Also pocketed pistons. Not sure on crank. At least I think Mark did the head, I don't think he just mapped it?

Here is the spec from the forum:

completed stripped and rebuilt,
MA developments engine
reyland motorsport big tooth box
leda suspension
quaife diffs
polybushed throughout
gt30r turbo
tial 44mm external wastegate,
pro alloy rs500 intercooler with slimline escort Cosworth rad and twin fans, equal length manifold,
blue Samcos,
new wiring loom,
autronics ecu,

costina

iTrader: (1)

Thanks.

Fullflush

Just go to NMS - no need to worry then

jamie956

I am now doing a 500/550hp build and if i was doing it again from scratch i would buy a engine already done, my mate brought a second hand low miles scs 550hp engine complete with ecu and loom all mapped up clutch breather all for 7k,

when i had my engine built i had a decent bottom end built 200 block long studded etc. so im ready to go with that side of it just the top end i needed.

by the sound of it your going to need a 200 block £1000, pistons £450, long studs and machining work min £800, 4x4 head £1000, head work and cams £1600 min, turbo £1500, Gasket set £240, bearings £250, the list gos on and on.

Im going for a gt30 as i can't get a efr manifold on my car, ive gone with a new spec gt30 that makes full boost at 3250 rpm and should do 550hp.

management is really down to whos going to build and map it im going with pectel guess you need to factor in at least 2k for that.

Clutch £550,

Exhaust if you dont have one already looking a 3'' system min.

Good Breather system WRC ones nearly £500 by the time you get all the jic fittings.

diff really wants to be a supra gotta by at least £1200

intercooler and rad another £500 min

It gets scary when you start to add it all up.

Caddyshack

Good head is about £2000 before porting, good 200 block £2000 if untouched and that's before oil squirts and long studding.

Caddyshack

Why can't you get an efr in there, my little 205 engine bay has got one on proper twin scroll manifold.

PF Ben

iTrader: (1)

I wouldnt waste your time with tremona, just drive an hour away and go to see mark shead

cozzy jeff

iTrader: (4)

only cost me £450 to supply oil jets and long studs plus machining to suit.

ajamesc

At 500 you don't have to have oil spray jets anyway so spend that money on something else

smiley

NOW SOLD

turbotrev

Without getting into the turbo/engine management/mapper debate again as that really depends on exactly how you want the car to drive and behave and also budget but for a engine build and running gear spec for 500-550hp whatever route you go imo you def need a 200 block, a standard crank would be more than fine at that power, decent head gasket, head spec and cams, suited turbo preferred by used engine builder/mapper (this may or may not req new management).

I would 100% be looking into a decent diff and gearbox than can handle all that power esp as your gonna be giving it plenty of abuse on track.
Your gonna want it reliable which is part a lot of people don't seem to worry about as much, 500+hp will kill diffs and gearboxes so it'd be pointless having all that power to then have to drive it tame so as not to keep obliterating boxes and diffs.
For me a beam would be one of the last mods as your not gonna break the beam, it'd just be nice to have one

Cheers Paul

turbotrev

Is yours gonna be the scs spec engine like the one recently posted on Facebook?
That looked impressive!

Cheers Paul

Caddyshack

So that's a block, standard crank,but new Pistons and rods....makes you think about the cost eh?

smiley

Acl bearings wrc jets arp nuts im hearing silly money for std rebuilds i will keep it if it doesnt go at what i want mate not desprate

jamie956

look for one already built mate it will save you a fortune that way you can sell your engine complete and draw back a load of money from it, that guy on here who was breaking the escort cos had a nice spec engine for sale shame he was a dick and wouldn't actually sell anything.

if your just focusing on track day/race car then talk to a builder who has experience in that discipline, everyone jumps on the efr band wagon but is that the best option for a track car.

3doorcozmess

after reading your post i just realised it going to be used on hard on track so definitely aggre with you on transmission.

gearbox and diff are going to be a must and decent brakes.

I also recommend getting a second job to fund, unless you clear about 2k a week wages it's going to be telling the Mrs all these new parts only cost 50 quid a item lol.

Si.