Ford engine, light but fast none turbo.
24-09-2016, 09:54 PM
#1
I'm Finding My Feet Here Now
Thread Starter
Ford engine, light but fast none turbo.
Okay, let me start by saying I've a tracked up Ford Fiesta RS1800. I've put this track car on the road and wow, it's unreal. The car isn't the fastest but seriously handles really well, and goes really well too. But only thing I'd like from the car, more grunt and more power.
At the moment it's around the 150/160 mark. Which is awesome fun on twisty roads and cadwell park. Take it to silverstone it's just not fast enough for long straights and long sweeping bends.
The idea was to replace the engine with a turbo charged 1.6 eco boost st engine around the 350/400 mark for around 5/6,000
But I want to also keep in mind a solution that is still light, but offers more power.
I've spend a huge amount on handling and getting the car to handle like it's on rails and I've now achieved that. So the main idea.
Run a n/a engine (ford or none ford) that is the same or lighter weight than the current 1.8 Zetec engine. Something that isn't going to cost me my arm and legs as I'll like to keep them. But a engine that can be easily achieved of 300hp.
I was looking at a cosworth n/a engine on bodies, I've heard that the crank, pistions and rods need changing, and of course adding bodies will create me a good engine. But at the expense I may aswell take on the eco boost engine.
So the goal, spend a decent amount of money but not exceed 5k. A strong and light engine that can withstand a high amount of revs. And one that can withstand a serious amount of abuse.
The reason. Turbo engines require boost build, they don't rev as high, and they ain't really been suited to my hard, aggressive driving style.
So, the engine people who can give me some advice, ideas on requirements and any build, information would be awesome.
Cheers, sii
At the moment it's around the 150/160 mark. Which is awesome fun on twisty roads and cadwell park. Take it to silverstone it's just not fast enough for long straights and long sweeping bends.
The idea was to replace the engine with a turbo charged 1.6 eco boost st engine around the 350/400 mark for around 5/6,000
But I want to also keep in mind a solution that is still light, but offers more power.
I've spend a huge amount on handling and getting the car to handle like it's on rails and I've now achieved that. So the main idea.
Run a n/a engine (ford or none ford) that is the same or lighter weight than the current 1.8 Zetec engine. Something that isn't going to cost me my arm and legs as I'll like to keep them. But a engine that can be easily achieved of 300hp.
I was looking at a cosworth n/a engine on bodies, I've heard that the crank, pistions and rods need changing, and of course adding bodies will create me a good engine. But at the expense I may aswell take on the eco boost engine.
So the goal, spend a decent amount of money but not exceed 5k. A strong and light engine that can withstand a high amount of revs. And one that can withstand a serious amount of abuse.
The reason. Turbo engines require boost build, they don't rev as high, and they ain't really been suited to my hard, aggressive driving style.
So, the engine people who can give me some advice, ideas on requirements and any build, information would be awesome.
Cheers, sii
24-09-2016, 10:31 PM
#3
I'm Finding My Feet Here Now
Thread Starter
I've been looking at st170 engines, maybe an option? Not sure on mounting and gearboxs, shafts etc that will mount with the MK3 setup. They can achieve around the 250ish mark quite easy. With some bodies, ported head, bigger injectors and few other bits, but not really read deep into the fuel requirements. The total cost implications yet.
I don't want to be scratching my head when I can easily buy a ST180 engine, swap the turbo, and see 300hp very easily with the setup. And the cost being 4/5k fitted. Then add the extras of custom mainfold back, coolers, and few other niggles.
Either engine will be running syvex, digital dash, custom shift links etc.
So it's a total cost really of 5k engine built, box and shafts and fitment
24-09-2016, 11:04 PM
#4
PassionFord Post Troll
What about a Honda vtec engine and gearbox from an ep3 type r? They're pretty easily tuned to 250bhp and are reliable.
I know it's not a ford engine but it's a good one.
I know it's not a ford engine but it's a good one.
25-09-2016, 09:27 AM
#5
Talk about random....
From a lightweight engine to make more power, to a heavy n/a Cossie engine that probably wont make power, to saying a turbo engine wont rev ??
And from 150hp...to 350-400hp...back to 300hp...
WTF !!
A little indecisive there.
And is your budget only Ł5-6k, or more...or less ? If it's really that little then you're very much restricting your options.
If you want 300hp for any chance of remaining under that budget, just rebuild/turbocharge your existing engine.
If for some reason that isnt suitable...you could try and squeeze in a supercharger although that will probably be more difficult and expensive.
Other options....Honda drivetrain or something like a VW 1.8t engine/box
Although I'd be surprised if any swap, including Ecoboost making the power you want would truly come in under Ł5k...maybe even Ł6k unless you find a donor vehicle very cheap
From a lightweight engine to make more power, to a heavy n/a Cossie engine that probably wont make power, to saying a turbo engine wont rev ??
And from 150hp...to 350-400hp...back to 300hp...
WTF !!
A little indecisive there.
And is your budget only Ł5-6k, or more...or less ? If it's really that little then you're very much restricting your options.
If you want 300hp for any chance of remaining under that budget, just rebuild/turbocharge your existing engine.
If for some reason that isnt suitable...you could try and squeeze in a supercharger although that will probably be more difficult and expensive.
Other options....Honda drivetrain or something like a VW 1.8t engine/box
Although I'd be surprised if any swap, including Ecoboost making the power you want would truly come in under Ł5k...maybe even Ł6k unless you find a donor vehicle very cheap
Last edited by stevieturbo; 25-09-2016 at 09:28 AM.
25-09-2016, 10:45 AM
#6
I'm Finding My Feet Here Now
Thread Starter
Talk about random....
From a lightweight engine to make more power, to a heavy n/a Cossie engine that probably wont make power, to saying a turbo engine wont rev ??
And from 150hp...to 350-400hp...back to 300hp...
WTF !!
A little indecisive there.
And is your budget only Ł5-6k, or more...or less ? If it's really that little then you're very much restricting your options.
If you want 300hp for any chance of remaining under that budget, just rebuild/turbocharge your existing engine.
If for some reason that isnt suitable...you could try and squeeze in a supercharger although that will probably be more difficult and expensive.
Other options....Honda drivetrain or something like a VW 1.8t engine/box
Although I'd be surprised if any swap, including Ecoboost making the power you want would truly come in under Ł5k...maybe even Ł6k unless you find a donor vehicle very cheap
From a lightweight engine to make more power, to a heavy n/a Cossie engine that probably wont make power, to saying a turbo engine wont rev ??
And from 150hp...to 350-400hp...back to 300hp...
WTF !!
A little indecisive there.
And is your budget only Ł5-6k, or more...or less ? If it's really that little then you're very much restricting your options.
If you want 300hp for any chance of remaining under that budget, just rebuild/turbocharge your existing engine.
If for some reason that isnt suitable...you could try and squeeze in a supercharger although that will probably be more difficult and expensive.
Other options....Honda drivetrain or something like a VW 1.8t engine/box
Although I'd be surprised if any swap, including Ecoboost making the power you want would truly come in under Ł5k...maybe even Ł6k unless you find a donor vehicle very cheap
The idea was to put in a eco boost engine and run it around the 400hp mark but of course, have a lower map for better traction. The eco boost engine is around the 1,500 mark to buy as complete with engine, turbo, inlet and gearbox. Replace the current turbo with a GTx28. And have it installed on custom mounts. The total will be around 5k easy. Then add the rest like syvex and digital dash, engine loom, bigger intercooler, custom mainfold and exhaust system. Easy to tune and offer a good amount of power.
The N/a is an option id like to consider, and I know 300hp will be hard to achieve in any n/a ford engine.
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25-09-2016, 11:00 AM
#8
Hi mate,
The idea was to put in a eco boost engine and run it around the 400hp mark but of course, have a lower map for better traction. The eco boost engine is around the 1,500 mark to buy as complete with engine, turbo, inlet and gearbox. Replace the current turbo with a GTx28. And have it installed on custom mounts. The total will be around 5k easy. Then add the rest like syvex and digital dash, engine loom, bigger intercooler, custom mainfold and exhaust system. Easy to tune and offer a good amount of power.
The N/a is an option id like to consider, and I know 300hp will be hard to achieve in any n/a ford engine.
The idea was to put in a eco boost engine and run it around the 400hp mark but of course, have a lower map for better traction. The eco boost engine is around the 1,500 mark to buy as complete with engine, turbo, inlet and gearbox. Replace the current turbo with a GTx28. And have it installed on custom mounts. The total will be around 5k easy. Then add the rest like syvex and digital dash, engine loom, bigger intercooler, custom mainfold and exhaust system. Easy to tune and offer a good amount of power.
The N/a is an option id like to consider, and I know 300hp will be hard to achieve in any n/a ford engine.
And with the Ecoboost being only 1600cc...that will hurt spool, especially if using a conventional turbo.
Surely if you're on a Zetec platform.....just use your existing engine or maybe a 2.0 Zetec and slap a GT2871 or something similar onto it ?
Although a boosted Honda engine/box or VW engine box could also be cost effective. The 1.8t's seem to make a lot of power and are bound to be cheap given how plentiful they are ? You could probably do 350-400 all day long without even opening one up. And the VW 02A gearbox seems to be very strong too.
A lot of the VW guys also use an SQS sequential shifter with these boxes too, which could be an added novelty.
Last edited by stevieturbo; 25-09-2016 at 11:02 AM.
25-09-2016, 04:39 PM
#11
10K+ Poster!!
I would probably look to supercharge what you already have, add a full cage with door bars and go really light, composite doors, bonnet and tail gate.
26-09-2016, 10:29 AM
#13
You'll spend a fortune building any engine.. a lot more than 5k if done properly. And I'm just talking the tall block, let alone any manifolds etc.
Cheapest way seems to me is buy a MK1 FRS engine, Ł2500 with gearbox and all ancillaries. Swap the turbo out and will do 300hp+ all day long on standard internals. However, not a very light engine having a cast iron block. You would have to swap out for a newer engine using an alloy block. I seem to remember that years ago my old FRS engine came on a pallet with a tag of 151kg, all ancillaries but no gearbox. The MTX75 I would guess is about 35-40kg. This is all without fluids too.
Boosted Honda engines have always been difficult to keep up with as they flaunt a steel bottom end, add some boost of circa 5 psi and they reach 350hp without a sweat. Just got to hope whoever calibrates/maps the ECU really does know what they're doing as it's got to be spot on for a high compression with forced induction.
Cheapest way seems to me is buy a MK1 FRS engine, Ł2500 with gearbox and all ancillaries. Swap the turbo out and will do 300hp+ all day long on standard internals. However, not a very light engine having a cast iron block. You would have to swap out for a newer engine using an alloy block. I seem to remember that years ago my old FRS engine came on a pallet with a tag of 151kg, all ancillaries but no gearbox. The MTX75 I would guess is about 35-40kg. This is all without fluids too.
Boosted Honda engines have always been difficult to keep up with as they flaunt a steel bottom end, add some boost of circa 5 psi and they reach 350hp without a sweat. Just got to hope whoever calibrates/maps the ECU really does know what they're doing as it's got to be spot on for a high compression with forced induction.
Last edited by moondustka; 26-09-2016 at 10:32 AM.
26-09-2016, 10:34 AM
#14
You would easily buy a VW 1.8t engine box for a few hundred quid...and it wouldnt need rebuilt at all.
egay is full of them, or you'd probably buy a complete car if need be, at least that way you'd get far more parts for a conversion and be ale to test drive the engine etc.
Honda swap would be good if you wanted something that revved hard too, although perhaps a little more expensive.
egay is full of them, or you'd probably buy a complete car if need be, at least that way you'd get far more parts for a conversion and be ale to test drive the engine etc.
Honda swap would be good if you wanted something that revved hard too, although perhaps a little more expensive.
29-09-2016, 01:50 PM
#15
I'm Finding My Feet Here Now
Thread Starter
Okay so after some thought, I've been thinking maybe the best option for me would be a supercharged zetec rather than turbo charged. Apparently the 1.8 zetec revs fast and harder than the 2.0 engine and of course, modifying the 1.8 zetec will save on a slight bit of weight.
So the biggest question is. What supercharger is available, what modification are required to build a zetec supercharger.
Let's say I want around the 280-300max bhp. I've read that the zetec standard crank is only good for 300hp, so a safe 250-280 is maybe the goal. What gearbox would be required to run this or send my current standard box for a lsd part quaffe.
Main questions are then. For a power of 250-300bhp.
- what supercharger is required.
- other than fordged pistons what else is avalible to get the right compression ratios.
- what inlet mainfold to run.
- anything else required.
I know maybe I've missed some questions but some listed above.
So the biggest question is. What supercharger is available, what modification are required to build a zetec supercharger.
Let's say I want around the 280-300max bhp. I've read that the zetec standard crank is only good for 300hp, so a safe 250-280 is maybe the goal. What gearbox would be required to run this or send my current standard box for a lsd part quaffe.
Main questions are then. For a power of 250-300bhp.
- what supercharger is required.
- other than fordged pistons what else is avalible to get the right compression ratios.
- what inlet mainfold to run.
- anything else required.
I know maybe I've missed some questions but some listed above.
29-09-2016, 04:42 PM
#16
How an engine revs depends on how it's built/tuned and how much power it makes...to simply say a 1.8 revs faster than a 2.0 is a little odd.
There are many superchargers available, as to whether anyone makes a kit for your car is another matter.
In the UK for small blowers, Rotrex is about the most likely source
http://www.tts-performance.co.uk/for...-zetec-diy-kit
"Right" compression ratio is a loose term and can mean different things, and of course depends what CR you already have. For a low boost low power build, you can get away with fairly high CR's
There are many superchargers available, as to whether anyone makes a kit for your car is another matter.
In the UK for small blowers, Rotrex is about the most likely source
http://www.tts-performance.co.uk/for...-zetec-diy-kit
"Right" compression ratio is a loose term and can mean different things, and of course depends what CR you already have. For a low boost low power build, you can get away with fairly high CR's
29-09-2016, 07:01 PM
#17
Advanced PassionFord User
Forget Eco boost engine as to get 400 bhp from them you would spend at least 3 to 4 k on tuning parts easily , it cost you about 3k to get that from a mk2 focus rs .
Stick a 2.0 litre engine in as everything is already there , mounts , driveshafts etc etc you will save yourself a fortune .
Bore to 2.1 litre , rods, Pistons big valve head ported etc jenvey throttle bodies , ecu and wiring and your looking at 260 /280 bhp check race line engines out as they build very good n/a zetec engines
Again 2.1 rods , pistons , standard head , fitted with uprated valve springs turbo , inlet which you already have on your existing engine injectors etc 280 bhp min at 20psi
My engine conversion cost me around 6k from ian Howells and the same bottom end has done 522 bhp so a solid bottom end
Cheers paul
Stick a 2.0 litre engine in as everything is already there , mounts , driveshafts etc etc you will save yourself a fortune .
Bore to 2.1 litre , rods, Pistons big valve head ported etc jenvey throttle bodies , ecu and wiring and your looking at 260 /280 bhp check race line engines out as they build very good n/a zetec engines
Again 2.1 rods , pistons , standard head , fitted with uprated valve springs turbo , inlet which you already have on your existing engine injectors etc 280 bhp min at 20psi
My engine conversion cost me around 6k from ian Howells and the same bottom end has done 522 bhp so a solid bottom end
Cheers paul
03-10-2016, 07:13 PM
#18
I'm Finding My Feet Here Now
Thread Starter
Thanks for all the feedback.
So I've now kinda made my mind up on what build I should go for. I'm mechanically minded but I've a friend who's built ginetta engines and Porsche cups, so maybe he will be able to either support me on the build or get someone to build me a zetec engine.
At the moment I've currently got a 1.8 zetec in the car, sourcing pistions rods and little ends will be easy enough for the 1.8 from Jano.
So, where do I go, turbo charge the 1.8 and be restricted to a max hp of like 330hp or go for a 2.1 full zetec.
I want around 250/300 max. I don't really need any more and it'll only spin the front wheels constantly. So with that power of 300, the goal, what will be required. I'd most likely either source a second 1.8 engine or I'd source a 2.0. Long as shafts box and other bits won't need modifying
- Source an 2.0 zetec engine, silverstop or black top?
- Forge pistons steal rods for safe going.
- Oil return needed in the sump and a oil feed to the turbo. Blank off oil breather in block.
- turbo to run easily 300hp. Custom exhaust mainfold from crazycage.
- either EFI with a modified injector rail or inlet from a rover turbo, running a good required fuel feed. Will need adaptor plate
- fuel pump, water pump, need up grading?
- intercooler and rad from AirTec.
- ARP head bolts with standard zetec gaskit good for 300hp?
- gearbox? Standard zetec or anything stronger? Maybe advised to get a LSD inside?
- hoses etc and other little bits.
I'm not sure if I've missed a lot, but please do correct me. Will read more about Building the zetec
So I've now kinda made my mind up on what build I should go for. I'm mechanically minded but I've a friend who's built ginetta engines and Porsche cups, so maybe he will be able to either support me on the build or get someone to build me a zetec engine.
At the moment I've currently got a 1.8 zetec in the car, sourcing pistions rods and little ends will be easy enough for the 1.8 from Jano.
So, where do I go, turbo charge the 1.8 and be restricted to a max hp of like 330hp or go for a 2.1 full zetec.
I want around 250/300 max. I don't really need any more and it'll only spin the front wheels constantly. So with that power of 300, the goal, what will be required. I'd most likely either source a second 1.8 engine or I'd source a 2.0. Long as shafts box and other bits won't need modifying
- Source an 2.0 zetec engine, silverstop or black top?
- Forge pistons steal rods for safe going.
- Oil return needed in the sump and a oil feed to the turbo. Blank off oil breather in block.
- turbo to run easily 300hp. Custom exhaust mainfold from crazycage.
- either EFI with a modified injector rail or inlet from a rover turbo, running a good required fuel feed. Will need adaptor plate
- fuel pump, water pump, need up grading?
- intercooler and rad from AirTec.
- ARP head bolts with standard zetec gaskit good for 300hp?
- gearbox? Standard zetec or anything stronger? Maybe advised to get a LSD inside?
- hoses etc and other little bits.
I'm not sure if I've missed a lot, but please do correct me. Will read more about Building the zetec
03-10-2016, 10:14 PM
#19
Advanced PassionFord User
Thanks for all the feedback.
So I've now kinda made my mind up on what build I should go for. I'm mechanically minded but I've a friend who's built ginetta engines and Porsche cups, so maybe he will be able to either support me on the build or get someone to build me a zetec engine.
At the moment I've currently got a 1.8 zetec in the car, sourcing pistions rods and little ends will be easy enough for the 1.8 from Jano.
So, where do I go, turbo charge the 1.8 and be restricted to a max hp of like 330hp or go for a 2.1 full zetec.
I want around 250/300 max. I don't really need any more and it'll only spin the front wheels constantly. So with that power of 300, the goal, what will be required. I'd most likely either source a second 1.8 engine or I'd source a 2.0. Long as shafts box and other bits won't need modifying
- Source an 2.0 zetec engine, silverstop or black top?
= 2.1 silver top cheaper than blacktop , has far bigger mains caps. Blacktop has a slightly better flowing head as standard and you will need custom engine mounts , new water pump impeller Ł100 to fit blacktop and billet oil pump gears Ł120 for both silver top and blacktop engines for reliability.
Just get Ian Howell to build you a bottom end it will be good for 500bhp
- Forge pistons steal rods for safe going.
= Ian Howell
- Oil return needed in the sump and a oil feed to the turbo. Blank off oil breather in block.
= make sure oil return is above oil level in sump , also remember to leave enough room for the drain pipe from turbo to sump as it needs to be on a downwards slope. Ian will modify your block to accept x2 breather ports in the back of the block for use with a Bailey Motorsport breather system imo the best on the market ( no heavy breathing , no smoking from exhaust on full boost)
- turbo to run easily 300hp. Custom exhaust mainfold from crazycage.
=gtx28 or gtx30 if you want more in the future
- either EFI with a modified injector rail or inlet from a rover turbo, running a good required fuel feed. Will need adaptor plate
= stick with your rs 1800 inlet as long as it's the high output model which it should be. Use uprated side feed injectors there's plenty around now, around 500cc will be fine Ł75 each , uprated fuel pressure regulator Ł150
- fuel pump, water pump, need up grading?
= uprated escort cosworth sytec fuel pump rated to 500bhp Ł120
Fit a new fiesta rs1800 water pump as this is the one you have to change to anyway when converting to 2 litre silver top Ł100
- intercooler and rad from AirTec.
= I liked the quality of pro alloy myself and I used their fiesta turbo large front mounted , the radiator defo needs to be alloy , I would also advise silicon hose kit all over the engine bay as ford hoses are shit and will burst.
- ARP head bolts with standard zetec gaskit good for 300hp?
= standard head bolts new from ford Ł40 and standard ford multilayer head gasket again genuine from ford as that's what mine runs
- gearbox? Standard zetec or anything stronger? Maybe advised to get a LSD inside?
= it all depends how much work you want to do?
Standard boxes are your biggest weak link without a doubt , at 280 bhp I used to eat standard ford pin ions and gears every other month.
You want a quaife gear kit and atb diff , cryogenic frozen and super polished and it will last at your power levels anything over 320 bhp then you need a focus rs box which again with ain't as bomb proof as people make out, then it's custom mounts , shafts , hubs etc
All this = Ł0000
- hoses etc and other little bits.
= Samcos , crossover pipe from inlet to intercooler Ł100 , air filter Ł100 , fiesta turbo throttle body Ł50 , management Ł1000 min plus
, live mapping Ł400
I'm not sure if I've missed a lot, but please do correct me. Will read more about Building the zetec
So I've now kinda made my mind up on what build I should go for. I'm mechanically minded but I've a friend who's built ginetta engines and Porsche cups, so maybe he will be able to either support me on the build or get someone to build me a zetec engine.
At the moment I've currently got a 1.8 zetec in the car, sourcing pistions rods and little ends will be easy enough for the 1.8 from Jano.
So, where do I go, turbo charge the 1.8 and be restricted to a max hp of like 330hp or go for a 2.1 full zetec.
I want around 250/300 max. I don't really need any more and it'll only spin the front wheels constantly. So with that power of 300, the goal, what will be required. I'd most likely either source a second 1.8 engine or I'd source a 2.0. Long as shafts box and other bits won't need modifying
- Source an 2.0 zetec engine, silverstop or black top?
= 2.1 silver top cheaper than blacktop , has far bigger mains caps. Blacktop has a slightly better flowing head as standard and you will need custom engine mounts , new water pump impeller Ł100 to fit blacktop and billet oil pump gears Ł120 for both silver top and blacktop engines for reliability.
Just get Ian Howell to build you a bottom end it will be good for 500bhp
- Forge pistons steal rods for safe going.
= Ian Howell
- Oil return needed in the sump and a oil feed to the turbo. Blank off oil breather in block.
= make sure oil return is above oil level in sump , also remember to leave enough room for the drain pipe from turbo to sump as it needs to be on a downwards slope. Ian will modify your block to accept x2 breather ports in the back of the block for use with a Bailey Motorsport breather system imo the best on the market ( no heavy breathing , no smoking from exhaust on full boost)
- turbo to run easily 300hp. Custom exhaust mainfold from crazycage.
=gtx28 or gtx30 if you want more in the future
- either EFI with a modified injector rail or inlet from a rover turbo, running a good required fuel feed. Will need adaptor plate
= stick with your rs 1800 inlet as long as it's the high output model which it should be. Use uprated side feed injectors there's plenty around now, around 500cc will be fine Ł75 each , uprated fuel pressure regulator Ł150
- fuel pump, water pump, need up grading?
= uprated escort cosworth sytec fuel pump rated to 500bhp Ł120
Fit a new fiesta rs1800 water pump as this is the one you have to change to anyway when converting to 2 litre silver top Ł100
- intercooler and rad from AirTec.
= I liked the quality of pro alloy myself and I used their fiesta turbo large front mounted , the radiator defo needs to be alloy , I would also advise silicon hose kit all over the engine bay as ford hoses are shit and will burst.
- ARP head bolts with standard zetec gaskit good for 300hp?
= standard head bolts new from ford Ł40 and standard ford multilayer head gasket again genuine from ford as that's what mine runs
- gearbox? Standard zetec or anything stronger? Maybe advised to get a LSD inside?
= it all depends how much work you want to do?
Standard boxes are your biggest weak link without a doubt , at 280 bhp I used to eat standard ford pin ions and gears every other month.
You want a quaife gear kit and atb diff , cryogenic frozen and super polished and it will last at your power levels anything over 320 bhp then you need a focus rs box which again with ain't as bomb proof as people make out, then it's custom mounts , shafts , hubs etc
All this = Ł0000
- hoses etc and other little bits.
= Samcos , crossover pipe from inlet to intercooler Ł100 , air filter Ł100 , fiesta turbo throttle body Ł50 , management Ł1000 min plus
, live mapping Ł400
I'm not sure if I've missed a lot, but please do correct me. Will read more about Building the zetec
Hope this helps
Cheers paul
Last edited by zetaboostboy522bhp; 03-10-2016 at 10:17 PM.
04-10-2016, 09:33 AM
#22
Boosting
Bosch the problem is you've got too many options and a bottomless pit in terms of spend.
If it were me (not speaking for everyone here), I'd keep it simple with a fairly standard zetec lump, the right turbo and good management.
280hp easily achieved and I've seen people running this power on stock pistons without issue. But the management must be really good. Any bad det and you'll blow pistons.
If you do pop the engine, you haven't spent much and you can uprate whatever gave out.
How many times I've seen people go mental on strengthening and the capabilities are never realised for a multitude of reasons.
Experiment, have fun and don't bust the bank...
If it were me (not speaking for everyone here), I'd keep it simple with a fairly standard zetec lump, the right turbo and good management.
280hp easily achieved and I've seen people running this power on stock pistons without issue. But the management must be really good. Any bad det and you'll blow pistons.
If you do pop the engine, you haven't spent much and you can uprate whatever gave out.
How many times I've seen people go mental on strengthening and the capabilities are never realised for a multitude of reasons.
Experiment, have fun and don't bust the bank...
04-10-2016, 06:16 PM
#23
Advanced PassionFord User
Bosch the problem is you've got too many options and a bottomless pit in terms of spend.
If it were me (not speaking for everyone here), I'd keep it simple with a fairly standard zetec lump, the right turbo and good management.
280hp easily achieved and I've seen people running this power on stock pistons without issue. But the management must be really good. Any bad det and you'll blow pistons.
If you do pop the engine, you haven't spent much and you can uprate whatever gave out.
How many times I've seen people go mental on strengthening and the capabilities are never realised for a multitude of reasons.
Experiment, have fun and don't bust the bank...
If it were me (not speaking for everyone here), I'd keep it simple with a fairly standard zetec lump, the right turbo and good management.
280hp easily achieved and I've seen people running this power on stock pistons without issue. But the management must be really good. Any bad det and you'll blow pistons.
If you do pop the engine, you haven't spent much and you can uprate whatever gave out.
How many times I've seen people go mental on strengthening and the capabilities are never realised for a multitude of reasons.
Experiment, have fun and don't bust the bank...
My opinion is build it once and add bits when you can afford to upgrade like inlets , tubular manifolds , etc as you will get alot more use out of the car
Cheers paul
04-10-2016, 06:32 PM
#24
Boosting
Your right in some terms of what you are saying , ive met some very decent honest people that spend tens of thousands and never realise there dreams because they speak to everyone on the planet has different ideas on different things which tbh is fair enough but people like to use one tuner for this and one tuner for that etc and in the end it just doesnt work as a package. When i used ian howell i got 12 month warranty on my engine ( not many tuners do that) and learned a great deal from him and made a very good friend from it . I also met ahmed bayjoo and harvey and when your pissing in the same pot as these you know youve got specialist help in every department.
My opinion is build it once and add bits when you can afford to upgrade like inlets , tubular manifolds , etc as you will get alot more use out of the car
Cheers paul
My opinion is build it once and add bits when you can afford to upgrade like inlets , tubular manifolds , etc as you will get alot more use out of the car
Cheers paul
04-10-2016, 07:40 PM
#25
Choice of management and the person mapping/calibrating your ECU really is key to a good lasting engine.
For me, just my tall block was a lot more than Paul's that I had rebuilt BUT, it sounds like I had a different sort of rebuild. I did say to the guys building it - "I don't want to be doing this again".
You need to decide what you want to spend on it/what you can afford and try to stick to it. I didn't and it went a bit skyward because of what I said.
My FRS block (blacktop zetec) was built 5000 miles previously and wasn't built properly. Luckily the PEC rods and Cosworth pistons came out unharmed and these were able to be re-used. The only other things that were reused were the Piper camshafts (don't need to bother with anything other than standard, these were just in there) and although not perfect were considered more than serviceable.
For me, just my tall block was a lot more than Paul's that I had rebuilt BUT, it sounds like I had a different sort of rebuild. I did say to the guys building it - "I don't want to be doing this again".
You need to decide what you want to spend on it/what you can afford and try to stick to it. I didn't and it went a bit skyward because of what I said.
My FRS block (blacktop zetec) was built 5000 miles previously and wasn't built properly. Luckily the PEC rods and Cosworth pistons came out unharmed and these were able to be re-used. The only other things that were reused were the Piper camshafts (don't need to bother with anything other than standard, these were just in there) and although not perfect were considered more than serviceable.
04-10-2016, 09:37 PM
#26
Advanced PassionFord User
Choice of management and the person mapping/calibrating your ECU really is key to a good lasting engine.
For me, just my tall block was a lot more than Paul's that I had rebuilt BUT, it sounds like I had a different sort of rebuild. I did say to the guys building it - "I don't want to be doing this again".
You need to decide what you want to spend on it/what you can afford and try to stick to it. I didn't and it went a bit skyward because of what I said.
My FRS block (blacktop zetec) was built 5000 miles previously and wasn't built properly. Luckily the PEC rods and Cosworth pistons came out unharmed and these were able to be re-used. The only other things that were reused were the Piper camshafts (don't need to bother with anything other than standard, these were just in there) and although not perfect were considered more than serviceable.
For me, just my tall block was a lot more than Paul's that I had rebuilt BUT, it sounds like I had a different sort of rebuild. I did say to the guys building it - "I don't want to be doing this again".
You need to decide what you want to spend on it/what you can afford and try to stick to it. I didn't and it went a bit skyward because of what I said.
My FRS block (blacktop zetec) was built 5000 miles previously and wasn't built properly. Luckily the PEC rods and Cosworth pistons came out unharmed and these were able to be re-used. The only other things that were reused were the Piper camshafts (don't need to bother with anything other than standard, these were just in there) and although not perfect were considered more than serviceable.
My engine was built to Ian's ultimate spec
Arias custom Pistons 7:45:1
Arrow rods
Rebore 2.1 litre
Decked block
Oil breather ports x2 machined in block
Ford water pump
New ford oil pump
New crank bearings etc
Multilayer head gasket
New ford head studs
New seals etc
Sump modified for oil return
Ł1890
That's the block that I still have that did 522 bhp
The only major components I added was
Big valve cylinder head Ł1150
Custom cam shaft Ł250
Adjustable pulleys Ł200
Custom exhaust manifold Ł made my own
Ian's custom inlet Ł 850
Bigger injectors Ł300
Adjustable fuel pressure regulator Ł150
Cosworth duratec throttle body Ł350
Gates cam belt Ł30
Turbonetic t61 turbo Ł750
Tial waste gate 44 mm Ł300
Pectel t2 management Ł750
Wiring harness Ł made my own
Engine dyno and mapping for the day was around Ł550 for the day
That's where you spend the money and iam going to be honest and say ian only promised a 480 bhp engine as this was his normal engine spec but I added with discussions with ian a few parts and they worked really well, when I called ian from the dyno at 28 psi with the 480 bhp he said oh there's another 2 psi stick it in and see where we are and it made 522 bhp and was making solid gains for every psi of boost , I think it would of gone over 550 at 32 psi easily but injector duty cycle was at 95% so Ahmed backed off.
Now I've added again with the following
New jenvey inlet with large billet bell mouth trumpet fitted
70mm jenvey defuser
Custom port matched and hand finished throughout for super smooth flow
Another set of 440cc injectors now 1100cc per cylinder
Custom length runners (adjustable)
Cylinder head will be machined for larger followers allowing much better choice in cams
Cylinder head machined for m12 studs
More work on porting
Bw turbo defo of some sorts
Twin scroll manifold
Full dry sump set up
Engine dyno and mapping work = hopefully 600 + bhp at 30/32 psi
Still got lots of work to be done so will be a while especially now I've got a little lad but it will get there lol
Cheers paul
04-10-2016, 10:58 PM
#27
10K+ Poster!!
Jesus that sounds like you're creating a monster!
05-10-2016, 07:05 PM
#29
Agreed as well - that's a serious build.
Paul - mine was built by Torque Developments. I went for modifying the block and centre main cap to provide a 360 degree thrust face. I also had liners fitted to reuse the cosworth pistons. Loads of other stuff was done too but basically I gave them a bare tall block and they gave me back a fully rebuilt bare tall block. Can share he details but it's not short list which yours isn't either! You've done well with costs there too, top job.
I've just asked Sam there to spec me a turbo - I'm aiming for at least 450hp @ hubs, which should be a 500hp engine.
Ben
Paul - mine was built by Torque Developments. I went for modifying the block and centre main cap to provide a 360 degree thrust face. I also had liners fitted to reuse the cosworth pistons. Loads of other stuff was done too but basically I gave them a bare tall block and they gave me back a fully rebuilt bare tall block. Can share he details but it's not short list which yours isn't either! You've done well with costs there too, top job.
I've just asked Sam there to spec me a turbo - I'm aiming for at least 450hp @ hubs, which should be a 500hp engine.
Ben
Last edited by moondustka; 05-10-2016 at 07:14 PM.
05-10-2016, 08:06 PM
#30
Advanced PassionFord User
Like I always say ian Howell is very well priced and great to deal with , when you talk about bhp or speed it's like it becomes his quest to get it and I know I would of spent a lot more using other tuners. He did loads of development with all parts and had everything custom built to his spec which reduced the price because he had loads made only for him by large very well known companies and they were provern parts , everyone's a winner.
Cheers paul
Cheers paul
05-10-2016, 09:31 PM
#31
I take it Ian Howell is still doing all this then. I know when he made my exhaust manifold 5 years ago he was thinking of not doing it because he worked a lot of hours in his day job and this was a secondary thing for him.
He does custom inlet manifolds too? I don't suppose you know how far the plastic inlet will go, has anyone even tried to blow it apart or reach the limits of its flow?
Thanks, Ben
He does custom inlet manifolds too? I don't suppose you know how far the plastic inlet will go, has anyone even tried to blow it apart or reach the limits of its flow?
Thanks, Ben
06-10-2016, 09:28 AM
#32
Advanced PassionFord User
Ian always did engine work on the side as hes a water engineer full time. He no longer runs a business or does alot of work but he will make parts / engines etc if your serious about it.
Plastic inlets have blown apart above 20 psi and ians inlet are very well fabricated and i defo recommend getting one as it will add bhp across the rev range
Cheers paul
P.s pm if you want his number
Plastic inlets have blown apart above 20 psi and ians inlet are very well fabricated and i defo recommend getting one as it will add bhp across the rev range
Cheers paul
P.s pm if you want his number
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moondustka (06-10-2016)
06-10-2016, 11:07 AM
#34
Advanced PassionFord User
11-10-2016, 09:32 PM
#36
Advanced PassionFord User
If your on about me then 8000 rpm max most probably 7500 rpm.
If your not and on about original poster for 350bhp with a small billet turbo 7000/7500rpm will be peak power.
Cheers paul
If your not and on about original poster for 350bhp with a small billet turbo 7000/7500rpm will be peak power.
Cheers paul
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