2wd cosworth/saph cosworth steering/handling
02-08-2016, 07:38 PM
#41
10K+ Poster!!
The 6 degree beam reduces the change of suspension geometry during suspension movement, they were used in the BTCC back in the day. MK motorsport does one with extra adjustability. It is all about dealing with the compromises Ford built in due to cost and knowledge at the time.
I am about to fit one and I understand it makes a large improvement.
On a road car thicker and stiffer is often the enemy. It is control, suppleness and integrity of the geometry set up that makes a good road car...that and then good tyres.
I am about to fit one and I understand it makes a large improvement.
On a road car thicker and stiffer is often the enemy. It is control, suppleness and integrity of the geometry set up that makes a good road car...that and then good tyres.
Last edited by Caddyshack; 02-08-2016 at 07:39 PM.
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doga-ot (02-08-2016)
02-08-2016, 07:41 PM
#42
Ahmed springs and Koni's is the set up I had and to be fair I found it excellent . Set your Koni's half way not fully hard . I Also had powerflex bushes back and front .
Change your diff mount ,sounds odd but my 3 door drove totally different after fitting the MSD item . Ł120,and the best Ł120 id spent on the car .
If you have fitted power flex bushes id avoid coilovers if the car is for road use , had mine on for around a week and the ride was just to hard and I wanted to keep my teeth . How ever there adjusted they dont have any give .
Also , what tyres are you using and what size wheels ?
Change your diff mount ,sounds odd but my 3 door drove totally different after fitting the MSD item . Ł120,and the best Ł120 id spent on the car .
If you have fitted power flex bushes id avoid coilovers if the car is for road use , had mine on for around a week and the ride was just to hard and I wanted to keep my teeth . How ever there adjusted they dont have any give .
Also , what tyres are you using and what size wheels ?
02-08-2016, 07:45 PM
#43
The 6 degree beam reduces the change of suspension geometry during suspension movement, they were used in the BTCC back in the day. MK motorsport does one with extra adjustability. It is all about dealing with the compromises Ford built in due to cost and knowledge at the time.
I am about to fit one and I understand it makes a large improvement.
On a road car thicker and stiffer is often the enemy. It is control, suppleness and integrity of the geometry set up that makes a good road car...that and then good tyres.
I am about to fit one and I understand it makes a large improvement.
On a road car thicker and stiffer is often the enemy. It is control, suppleness and integrity of the geometry set up that makes a good road car...that and then good tyres.
02-08-2016, 07:48 PM
#44
10K+ Poster!!
MT may have one on the shelf.
02-08-2016, 08:04 PM
#45
Others are available. Mark is slow on some stuff but speak to him on the beam. Mine is bespoke as it has been made to take the supra diff without any fitting kit, plus to take his bladed anti roll bar (different mounts) and then powder coated to my spec. It has been less than 4 weeks start to finish and he found me a donor beam.
MT may have one on the shelf.
MT may have one on the shelf.
02-08-2016, 08:41 PM
#47
10K+ Poster!!
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Caddyshack (02-08-2016)
02-08-2016, 08:54 PM
#49
PassionFord Regular
Isn't that the reason why ford changed to the h14 arb for the extra degree of caster over the h13 to combat the straight line stability on the later 3 doors and rs500 and offered it as a recall for early cars if the owners chose, then carried the arb over to the saph as it was a success, the hubs on the 3 door were for homologation purposes iirc, i have heard stories of the very first saphs using up the left over 3 door hubs on the production line
Last edited by steppy; 02-08-2016 at 09:08 PM.
02-08-2016, 10:42 PM
#52
PassionFord Post Troll
03-08-2016, 05:48 AM
#53
At standard ride height the 3dr hubs might make the car feel unstable and the Sapph hubs will probably be the best setup. But since most of the cars have been lowered, the Sapph hubs place the roll center way too low and the 3dr hubs place the roll center at the right location.
I also believe the 3dr hubs give a better scrub radius or something like that. But they don't do anything for adjustability, camber or castor.
When I changed the standard Sierra (so not even Sapph cossie) hubs for 3dr hubs the car felt completely different.
I also believe the 3dr hubs give a better scrub radius or something like that. But they don't do anything for adjustability, camber or castor.
When I changed the standard Sierra (so not even Sapph cossie) hubs for 3dr hubs the car felt completely different.
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Mark V8 (09-08-2017)
10-08-2017, 09:58 AM
#58
PassionFord Post Troll
I know Mike Rainbird put up the settings on here many years ago, might take some finding, but worth the search if you find the settings he posted.
Some info on these links :
https://passionford.com/forum/genera...y-setup-s.html
https://passionford.com/forum/ford-s...-s-differ.html
https://passionford.com/forum/genera...h-fitting.html
It's times like this when people like Mike Rainbird were invaluable.
Some info on these links :
https://passionford.com/forum/genera...y-setup-s.html
https://passionford.com/forum/ford-s...-s-differ.html
https://passionford.com/forum/genera...h-fitting.html
It's times like this when people like Mike Rainbird were invaluable.
Last edited by Jim Green; 10-08-2017 at 10:19 AM.
11-08-2017, 07:07 AM
#59
The settings for fast road use advised by Mike are the same for all Cosworths, 2wd and 4x4:
Front:
2 mm toe in (total)
-1.5 degrees camber
3.5 degrees castor
Rear:
3 mm toe in (total)
-1.5 degrees camber
For track use you can add more camber, but the rest stays the same.
Front:
2 mm toe in (total)
-1.5 degrees camber
3.5 degrees castor
Rear:
3 mm toe in (total)
-1.5 degrees camber
For track use you can add more camber, but the rest stays the same.
11-08-2017, 09:33 AM
#60
cossie fan (unluckerly)
dose the mk beam not have different settings. I was under the impression the arms are different and you use the settings he says? maybe wrong but im sure I read that on here
11-08-2017, 10:18 AM
#61
The toe adjustment on the MK beams is different and very nicely made. It is on the inner pivot and therefor doesn't change the distance between front and rear wheel much, unlike the ones where the outer pivot is adjusted. But the way of adjustment doesn't make a difference for the settings to use.
11-08-2017, 02:25 PM
#62
10K+ Poster!!
Mark MK sent me these pics recently and said they are adjustable roll centre and adjustable TCAs. Would these do the front end? I have the WRC hubs and arb / comp struts.
11-08-2017, 03:12 PM
#63
PassionFord Post Troll
Any idea on price Toby?
11-08-2017, 05:08 PM
#65
10K+ Poster!!
11-08-2017, 05:46 PM
#66
10K+ Poster!!
I texted him
Ł350 plus vat plated finish. Complete.
He sent me a pic of 10 pairs waiting plating.
Just to be clear, I have no affiliation with MK apart from paying off his mortgage with all the bits I have bought lol. I do not get any freebies (he's from Grimsby - they don't do freebies)
Ł350 plus vat plated finish. Complete.
He sent me a pic of 10 pairs waiting plating.
Just to be clear, I have no affiliation with MK apart from paying off his mortgage with all the bits I have bought lol. I do not get any freebies (he's from Grimsby - they don't do freebies)
Last edited by Caddyshack; 11-08-2017 at 05:49 PM.
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Adam-M (12-08-2017)
12-08-2017, 07:36 AM
#67
PassionFord Post Troll
Lol cheers for finding out, they look a lot better than the normal adjustable tcas due to you being able to replace the ball joint separate.
12-08-2017, 07:38 AM
#68
PassionFord Post Troll
What's the little round bit for just to the left of the arb connection?
12-08-2017, 09:36 AM
#69
cossie fan (unluckerly)
The toe adjustment on the MK beams is different and very nicely made. It is on the inner pivot and therefor doesn't change the distance between front and rear wheel much, unlike the ones where the outer pivot is adjusted. But the way of adjustment doesn't make a difference for the settings to use.
12-08-2017, 09:43 AM
#70
Then I doubt that the settings are good. Unless there is play in the joints in the beam all should be good. Mike's settings are independent on the type of beam, even if it's 6 degree or standard. Actually Mike's settings (apart from the camber) are the same as what Ford put in the Group N and A manual for the Escort Cosworth.
12-08-2017, 09:46 AM
#71
cossie fan (unluckerly)
Beam was new set up by a guy who sets up track cars I'm told. Settings taken off here. Not been in it myself I've the same beam but mines off the road waiting for my engine. I'll use the settings my tuner recommends and let him set it up once back so will be interesting to see how it drives
12-08-2017, 10:17 AM
#73
10K+ Poster!!
Yes, that is correct.
I have the bladed arb front and rear...not tried the rear yet but it is on and set to full soft at moment. I am going to swap to 160 and 180 lb springs on the rear and see what that is like as I have 200 at moment but the car is so light I think they are too stiff. At the end I will get new Shox.
I have the bladed arb front and rear...not tried the rear yet but it is on and set to full soft at moment. I am going to swap to 160 and 180 lb springs on the rear and see what that is like as I have 200 at moment but the car is so light I think they are too stiff. At the end I will get new Shox.
12-08-2017, 10:23 AM
#74
PassionFord Post Troll
I had a feeling that's what it's for, nice one a reasonably price setup as going full billet wrc is a bit much.
12-08-2017, 10:35 AM
#75
Beam was new set up by a guy who sets up track cars I'm told. Settings taken off here. Not been in it myself I've the same beam but mines off the road waiting for my engine. I'll use the settings my tuner recommends and let him set it up once back so will be interesting to see how it drives
it has to be settings or something else with the car
12-08-2017, 11:12 AM
#76
cossie fan (unluckerly)
12-08-2017, 12:04 PM
#77
12-08-2017, 02:57 PM
#78
PassionFord Post Troll
Thanks Marc, do you do compression struts to suit or are burton power ones ok for your tca?
12-08-2017, 07:26 PM
#79
PassionFord Post Troll
Also do they make the roll centre like the 3dr hubs or does nothing change? Can they be anondised?
13-08-2017, 08:31 AM
#80
10K+ Poster!!
You would need to powder coat them as they are steel, anodise would only work on ally.
They are normally plated but that does tarnish very easily. You could have them painted but you would want proper paint like a body shop as rattle cans would not last long.
I do not think the MK compression struts that I run would work with these as it is a totally different fitting. If you run comp struts you would need the bladed arb imo although I know some people say you don't need arb with comp struts.
They are normally plated but that does tarnish very easily. You could have them painted but you would want proper paint like a body shop as rattle cans would not last long.
I do not think the MK compression struts that I run would work with these as it is a totally different fitting. If you run comp struts you would need the bladed arb imo although I know some people say you don't need arb with comp struts.