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General Car Related Discussion.To discuss anything that is related to cars and automotive technology that doesnt naturally fit into another forum catagory.
For some years I have been selling recaro seats from st170s to frs owners who all say the sparco ones are crap and just for show, so it should be common knowledge amongst the owners, this is more of a heads up for those of you retro fitting them into other cars, welsh fords recent incident shows what most of us knew, the sparco seats are utter shite
only pic I can find of seat blown apart showing its basically a normal focus seat with a headrest and a sparco cover pulled over it all
quote from welsh ford
"This is why noone should run harnesses on seats not designed for them - especially standard seats. On this photo the harnesses snapped the seat during a crash, which caused the driver a broken back which now requires spinal surgery (Mk1 focus RS seats are not designed for harnesses).
Don't risk such an important part of your body for the sake of running harnesses - if you want harnesses make sure you have the right seats."
It looks as though the harnesses are not fitted correctly. They don't appear to be fitted to a harness bar/roll cage at the proper angle, as this is what causes spinal/shoulder injuries and most likely the reason why the seats have bent the way they have.
The seats aren't designed for harnesses which again doesn't help. Yes I agree that the angle wasn't correct either and that has always been a peeve of mine but atleast fit them to seats designed to use harnesses...
a lot of it is down to common sense but of course no help to the person injured as hindsight is not something on his agenda, sparco simply did a cosmetic job on the seat and was only ever intended to be just for show
As above, where were the harnesses bolted and has anyone bothered to check if those seats are designed to be used with them? Those holes are probably just for show.
I always cringe when I see harnesses on production seats, it's an accident waiting to happen.
sparco simply did a cosmetic job on the seat and was only ever intended to be just for show
Sorry but I disagree with this statement. If sparco intended for these seats to be for show use only, they would not have a CE certificate and the car would not be road legal. The seats would have passed all relevant safety tests before the RS was released. The failure, and the guys injuries are not due to the design of the seat, but the poor fitting of harnesses.
What about the recaros in the mk2?
They have harness slots and after having had 2 in bits I'd say they are pretty flimsy.
Bolting the harness shoulder straps to the rear seat belt points means when you're weight is thrown forward the shoulder straps will pull down compression the spine.
And to be fair,the cars in a really bad state,I would expect some injuries from multiple impacts like that car has had.
Sorry but I disagree with this statement. If sparco intended for these seats to be for show use only, they would not have a CE certificate and the car would not be road legal. The seats would have passed all relevant safety tests before the RS was released. The failure, and the guys injuries are not due to the design of the seat, but the poor fitting of harnesses.
I have had the frs seats apart and they are a total bodge but this whole issue arose from the chap using the holes for a harness which the seat is not capable of handling, I suggest if you obtain one and you will see for yourself how bad they really are, there is proof content in this thread including pics showing damage caused to seat and driver, what more do you want
Originally Posted by 155lee
What about the recaros in the mk2?
They have harness slots and after having had 2 in bits I'd say they are pretty flimsy.
Bolting the harness shoulder straps to the rear seat belt points means when you're weight is thrown forward the shoulder straps will pull down compression the spine.
And to be fair,the cars in a really bad state,I would expect some injuries from multiple impacts like that car has had.
not had any mk2 seats yet Lee but I suspect same as you really
Bought a mk1 focus Rs new from ford back in the day, my seats were the later type with stitching across, really liked them and don't remember any issues with comfort etc.
As a regular track day goer it was obvious to me the seats were all show and for road use without harnesses but the style of them does suggest harnesses could be used, I was never told by ford not to fit them or that the seat couldn't stand up to a crash if fitted.
Looks a really bad crash and a test for anything used to survive it, what would the injuries have been in a roll situation using seatbelt? Wish the guy driving all the best in his recovery and hope the surgery goes well.
The seat back shouldn't be taking any forward strain during the collision. Stock or aftermarket harnesses should not mount to the seat (**unless designed this way by the manufacturer**).
Looking at the broken seats, it's apparent that the seats were taking the strain from the webbing--the holes in the headrest are pass-throughs for the harness and ideally it shouldn't even touch the seat on the way through, let alone anyplace else.
The job of the seat is to position the occupant. The job of the harness is to keep the occupant in position/distribute forces through the occupant (cornering, acceleration, bumps as well as impacts). The seat is positioned by its own mounts and if the occupant is moving enough to cause damage to the seat on forward forces then the harness is not working correctly.
Now, if the damage was done when the occupant was returning to the seat after moving forward (I didn't watch the video due to bandwidth issues currently), the seat may be partly to fault--but the harness wasn't doing that great a job of keeping the occupant in it.
The seats may be junk but a properly mounted and worn harness is critical to accident survival. In all those cases the harness was added post-manufacture and the installation is extremely relevant--perhaps more relevant--than the seat design.
I'm not sure I really understand the point of this thread having read it back.
Manufacturer makes car, fits seats having crash tested them and the car to meet the required standards.
Man buys car, fits harnesses that the seat was not designed to accept.
Man crashes car, seat fails.
That's like dropping a 10,000 tonne weight on the roof of the car and then complaining that the roof collapsed.
The seat has been loaded in a manner which it was never designed for. Not really surprising it failed is it? Don't see that Ford or Sparco can possibly be blamed in any way.
ok put it this way if you buy something that has a button saying do not press somebody somewhere will press it, it was a heads up for those buying these seats to retro fit them in whatever cars in place of correct safety bucket seats, I break a lot of 170s and have seen these fitted with harnesses going through so the point needed to be raised in light of the recent smash
Think this doesn't apply to just ford focus rs sparco seats.
Any seat that's not got the harnesses going towards the rear at the correct angle are going to do more harm than good in a crash.
Think this doesn't apply to just ford focus rs sparco seats.
Any seat that's not got the harnesses going towards the rear at the correct angle are going to do more harm than good in a crash.
yes Lee exactly as not everyone has gift of common sense
I have had the frs seats apart and they are a total bodge but this whole issue arose from the chap using the holes for a harness which the seat is not capable of handling, I suggest if you obtain one and you will see for yourself how bad they really are, there is proof content in this thread including pics showing damage caused to seat and driver, what more do you want
At the end of the day this guy's injuries had absolutely nothing to do with the perfectly safe seats, but the fitting of the harnesses. Some of your comments about the seats being a total bodge, crap and utter shite aren't really needed here.
Why aren't you saying the sparco harnesses being used here are also shite then? Just like the seats, they are perfectly safe, if being used properly.
Too be fair looking at the state of the focus I'm surprised the seat has done as well as that. I can see where the op is coming from with the holes in the seats for harnesses but a lot of people would think you could put a harness through them.
Sorry but I disagree with this statement. If sparco intended for these seats to be for show use only, they would not have a CE certificate and the car would not be road legal. The seats would have passed all relevant safety tests before the RS was released. The failure, and the guys injuries are not due to the design of the seat, but the poor fitting of harnesses.
Sorry but your wrong, the seat was never designed to use harness's with, the harness holes are just for show, look at the 2 headrest rods, a proper race seat is properly built around this area, the harness fitting wasn't the reason.
only recently since hans devices have become compulsory for MSA racing have the MSA changed there directive on the angle of the harnesses behind the seat for racing meaning the angle it could be previously was deemed safe
These are not race seats , ford never claimed them to be race seats and the focus rs is not a race car , it's a production car with seats styled like race seat that have met all the regs for the purpose they where designed for , driving down the road .
Any moron that fits these into a track car or any seat with an adjustable back wants there head looking at , and then to fit a harness wrong and expect the seat not to collapse is shouldn't be allowed nowhere near a race track.
That focus above has had a massive wallop and personally think that the seat has held up pretty well seeing as everything was fitted wrong
And sparco make many a seat for race applications that are used in most Motorsport teams around the world so calling them shit is just silly.
Your warning should say this is what happens when you don't use a proper Motorsport spec seat for a Motorsport event wether it be track day or full professional use
Sorry but your wrong, the seat was never designed to use harness's with, the harness holes are just for show, look at the 2 headrest rods, a proper race seat is properly built around this area, the harness fitting wasn't the reason.
only recently since hans devices have become compulsory for MSA racing have the MSA changed there directive on the angle of the harnesses behind the seat for racing meaning the angle it could be previously was deemed safe
steve
Not sure if you have interpreted my post wrong as I am agreeing with you here?!!
Hope the chap makes a full recovery, horrific looking crash and horrible injuries. The amount of damage to the car id say the occupants were lucky to get out with there lives.
Update, was asked to put this up for those interested in the drivers welfare
"Harnesses fitted to Focus RS Seats
A message from Shane Easterbrook to all Mk1 Focus RS Owner’s. (6th June 2016)
Late last night I received a message from Shane who has asked me to write this to pass onto all Mk1 Focus RS owners.
Shane as we all know had a very bad accident on Sunday evening. Shane has suffered a broken back, head injuries and nerve and tendon damage to his right hand finger. Shane is very lucky to be alive as we have all seen from the pictures and video of his car.
Shane said to me last night that he is nervous as he is having an operation on his spine this morning. Obviously it’s a very complex operation so I hope all goes well for him.
The message Shane wants to get across to everyone is this. Shane had Harnesses fitted to his seats of his Focus RS. He was told that it wasn’t recommended to have these fitted to the car when he bought the car but didn’t listen but now knows he is suffering from it. Shane has explained that because of these harnesses being fitted the seat snapped in half which broke his back.
He would like to think that because of what he has gone through it will get the message across to other owners with the same set up to remove the harnesses and stick with the standard seat belts.
Keep safe everyone and lets all learn from someone who is lucky to be able to help others with his message. Please spread the word to other owners at shows if you see the harnesses fitted to the standard Focus RS seats.
All the best to Shane in his operation today and I wish him a speedy recovery.
Update, was asked to put this up for those interested in the drivers welfare
"Harnesses fitted to Focus RS Seats
A message from Shane Easterbrook to all Mk1 Focus RS Owners. (6th June 2016)
Late last night I received a message from Shane who has asked me to write this to pass onto all Mk1 Focus RS owners.
Shane as we all know had a very bad accident on Sunday evening. Shane has suffered a broken back, head injuries and nerve and tendon damage to his right hand finger. Shane is very lucky to be alive as we have all seen from the pictures and video of his car.
Shane said to me last night that he is nervous as he is having an operation on his spine this morning. Obviously its a very complex operation so I hope all goes well for him.
The message Shane wants to get across to everyone is this. Shane had Harnesses fitted to his seats of his Focus RS. He was told that it wasnt recommended to have these fitted to the car when he bought the car but didnt listen but now knows he is suffering from it. Shane has explained that because of these harnesses being fitted the seat snapped in half which broke his back.
He would like to think that because of what he has gone through it will get the message across to other owners with the same set up to remove the harnesses and stick with the standard seat belts.
Keep safe everyone and lets all learn from someone who is lucky to be able to help others with his message. Please spread the word to other owners at shows if you see the harnesses fitted to the standard Focus RS seats.
All the best to Shane in his operation today and I wish him a speedy recovery.
Clayton Borg"
wish him all the best for his operation and I hope people listen to his words
07-06-2016, 11:11 AM
Mk1 FRS sparco seat alert
