Adam-M

I had a leaky oil sump that was annoying me on the cossie and I personally thought my oil pressure was lower than it should be so decided to tackle both jobs while off for the Christmas holidays.

The below pictures are of a burton power oil pump that has done just over 9k miles from new, it was fitted at the same time of a full engine rebuild. Oil has been changed 7 times in the period and always used Millers cfs oil.










Got the lid skimmed as it was scored aswell...





You can see excess scoring on all the internals of the pump, the pump body is badly scored as is the cylinder and rotor. It's asif nothing has been machined to size properly or some shit has got in there. Also the hex for the oil pump drive is badly worn that it allows a couple of mm of rotation each way before it actually spins the pump.

Just posted these to see what you'd think, now fitted a new pinto 2wd pump and new oil pump drive but haven't finished assembling the car yet to see what psi I'm getting.

Cheers

gcfcos

I've seen so much lately of aftermarket high pressure oil pumps failing on Cossies and rs turbos, my mates been through 2 engines now and the 3rd engine he fitted a standard genuine oil pump and it's been fine since, same as my mate with a saph cos, he rebuilt the engine with a high pressure oil pump and it lasted less than a month! Rebuilt again with a standard oil pump and it's been fine since.

haz87

Has it always run the same poor pressure? Did it get fitted as part of a brand new build/rebuild?
As you say its either going to be poor machining or shit thats been pulled in. Obviously if pressure was good for a good while and then deteriorated, chances are its picked up on something.
If it was from a fresh rebuild it could be either or...

grcossie

Exactly what jenspeed warning me about Burton pumps, years ago

lacey

The marks will be due to shit going through the pump
And the poor presure is due to lazy tolerances whether there in the pump
Or in the engine ( shells )
You need to remember that a pump of any type is not the only factor in
Making presure , as there is far more opportunities for presure to be lost
In the engine than in the pump .

When buying one of these pumps it would not hurt to check the tolerances inside
Rather than assuming they are spot on
( but yes they should be )

As for the hex drive it prob does feel like a lot of movement
As a little feel a lot , but as for mm it would be spinning inside its self

You can feeler gauge the clearance to find out what it is
But some of that clearance is to get rid of any miss alinement between the pump/drive/dizzy

Adam-M

Engine was built in 2010 mate everything was replaced, new accralite pistons, 1mm overbore all new bearings and pump at the time. I don't know what pressure it was running at the time but it hasn't deteriorated in the time I've owned it. 40 psi at 6k revs coming from my racetec gauge where as id expect atleast 50-60psi.

When I took my sump off I looked up at my bores and they were still like mirrors not scored atall so I'd speculate that the pump had shit tolerances.

Adam-M

Ive read quite abit about all different brands of replacement pumps for cossies mate and the original ford ones seem to be the best.

Adam-M

Cheers for the info mate, I can only speculate just now but once it's back together I'll see what pressure I'm getting and that will confirm if it's shit bearing clearance or a shit pump.

See the gap between the barrel and the pump body do you think that gap is big enough for shit to go through? I suppose it would need to be big enough for oil to pass through or it would seize so that means it will be big enough for debris then lol. I only have a 0-1 mic so will have to use my callipers to check the clearance between them

steveboyslim

I would have replaced the oil pump.
As already said the scoring is caused by debris passing through the pump.
The debris is usually from when the engine was build, oil ways not clean enough, oil coolers reused etc.
If the sump is off I would check the big end bearings, main bearings and cam shaft journals.
If you are going to use that oil pump push the middle shaft out of the inner rotor and have the pair surface ground and then machine the aluminium housing to restore the correct end clearance.
Either way good luck with that oil pump.

Steve

stevieturbo

Any photos of the pump when it was new ?

gcfcos

Yeah seems to be a lot of it happening lately. Surely the standard ford oil pumps must be up to the job? I met a guy with a saph Cossie at a show with over 230,000 miles and never been rebuilt all on the original internals, was only a stage 1 car though

cossynut2

From your photos I am shocked at the way it looks after such a low mileage, if it has been caused by debris your big ends and mains must be damaged as well. To me it looks like the metal the pump is made from is very soft and poor quality.
My 2wd engine was rebuilt with a new high pressure oil pump back in 1996, its done over 50,000 miles since then with no problems.Perhaps what was being made then were much better than the current ones?

stevieturbo

This assumes it didnt look like that when new though.

Have people not posted pictures of "brand new" pumps that are scored ?

Adam-M

It was fitted by the previous owner stevie but I've got the engine build pics on a thumb drive I'll have a look.

My engine runs perfect very quiet and and doesn't smoke like fook even on the rollers at msd.

Even the shaft/spindle of the rotor that passes through the housing is worn, you can see different colours on it from shiny to dull, it's not scored just worn.

There was also zero debris in the sump I had a close look at it before I cleaned it out.

Tim Wharton

I
Hi
Sorry to see your oil pump probs very disheartening
It looks to me like it has drawn in some dirt from some where or the tolerances vere tight in the first place causing it pickup
You can't trust anybody or anything when it comes to engine building
Back in the Summer I had to have my sapphire engine out after only 500 miles as the (high pressure) pump I fitted had a faulty spring this wasn't a Burton pump but from another well known supplier
I did manage to get another pump and some compensation from them for my time
So measure everything
Clean everything and keep your fingers crossed
Best of luck Tim

cossynut2

The fact that there was no metal debris in the sump that could have caused the wear, points again to a very poor quality pump?

Tim Wharton

Hi

One other thing ,I see you have had the pump top skimed
I would Knock out the roll pin that keeps the under piston oil squirter control valve in and give that a good clean out too can't be too careful

Cheers Tim

bigdel

I've just got one of these fitted to my fresh engine. it's not finished yet so still time to swap it out.
Should I do that or stick with the Burton unit? I'd rather chuck a £125 pump out than have to rebuild the engine yet again

lacey

The smallest piece of shit can cause some deep grooves in the bore

If you have some tiny tiny pieces of crap which are sharp
In a pump rotating at a good rate of rpm you will always have one
Part that gets marks
99% of the time that's the pump bore/body
As it's alloy and the rotor is sinted steel

lacey

Pop it apart give it a quick measure
And then a good clean

If all is good inside pop it back together and you should be well away

cossynut2

The photos show grooves and marks all over the pump, not just one score mark. I would have thought for it to be so badly marked there would have been some debris on the pick up or in the bottom of the sump?