Smit

iTrader: (5)

This is the sign which is on our road...



Thing is this time restriction is ignored continuously by multiple companies everyday of the week.

What I'm after is what would the penalty be if the traffic police happened to catch an offender driving outside of the hours shown.

Anybody know? As can't find anything concrete... Cheers, Smit.

dojj

iTrader: (3)

can they turn around?

if not they'll normally just get told off

we've got a no hgv restriction on our road yet they come lumbering up many times a day, artics and the lot, yet nothings ever been done about it to my knowledge in the past decade

stevieturbo

Often failure to obey signs/markings like that can be fixed penalty and 3 points. Not sure if it applies 100% of the time though.

But the sign is very clear. It isnt advisory or maybe, it is no 7.5t or more.

Oranoco

That sub plate isn't compliant with the TSRGD2002 for use with that sign (unless they have a departure from the DfT, which I bet they haven't). I work as a street lighting and signage engineer in Hertfordshire. Non compliant signage means 0% chance of enforcement. That particular sign is almost always covered with an "except for access" caveat which usually renders the sign next to useless.

Happy to double check this in my books Monday if it will help?

Oranoco

Your local authority also want a kick in the balls as that plate is far too big to be mounted on a lamp post. Looking at the style of column I would guess it's a 5m unit and a pretty old one at that. Maximum sign size must not exceed 0.3m2

RichieST

iTrader: (2)

Is there a suitable turning area for hgv, or is there a sign further up the road with a weight limit ahead sign?

My company got off a fine recently as our trucks got caught in a weight limit on a few occasions, but as there was no turning area suitable for an artic, or a preceding sign before a suitable place to turn around, we got off with it.

Smit

iTrader: (5)

Our road is one of 4 which is 400 yards from a main A road. So when approaching the roundabout our road (2nd junction) is the only one with restrictions. So an HGV could easily go another route!

focusv8

Assuming they have the time to see the sign before it's too late.

cossiestu

Oranoco I never realised road signs were so complicated!?

....Sorry Smit, not got a clue with regards to your initial question!!

Oranoco

Should see the sizes of the books on my desk Easy to see why so many authorities cock it up.

stevieturbo

The wankers here have tried to change the main road near my house from NSL to 50....tried

So 2 signs near either end are now 50. 3 side roads that enter the road...still leave you with NSL, and not a single repeater sign to tell you it's a 50 over a 3-4 mile stretch.

They really didnt think about that one too hard

Oranoco

Sounds like blithering incompetence on behalf of the people putting it in. There is a table in (I think, it is Saturday and I'm hungover) Chapter 3 of the Traffic Signs Manual that covers size and frequency of repeater signs.

Smit

iTrader: (5)

Here is a birds eye view....



Junction 1 is fast food etc
Junction 2 is our junction
Junction 3 is a main road (has supermarket/retail park etc)
Junction 4 is a large industrial estate (around 200 businesses)

If the signage is wrong, what does it need to be like?

bodace5

Id say it means 7.5t max weight limit between those hours but it should say 'except for access' because trucks over 7.5t delivering goods to houses/businesses on your street are allowed enless theres a weak bridge ect

xr_craig

iTrader: (2)

My street has a 7.5t limit but it's in a confusing place and is easy for drivers who have never been in the area to misjudge and by the time the see the sign it's too late. However it's not really a problem for us as the last place they want to end up is down my street as its a dead end so they end up having to reverse the distance. If the sign was 100yds earlier it would never happen.

Oranoco

It's not as straight forward as just shifting the sign, the Traffic Regulation Order would also need to be rewritten and sealed.

stevieturbo

What's the legal procedure for changing speed limits ?

I always thought they needed to advertise etc that it was happening...not just sneak in small speed limit signs and hope nobody notices ?

FFS, they put up huge idiotic signs to tell of a road layout change, yet all over the place here they're reducing speed limits and not drawing any attention to the fact.
There must be literally dozens, if not hundreds of reductions in my area or extensions of lower limits over the past few years.

Oranoco

Any speed limit change, parking restriction, weight limit scheme is advertised in local papers and on line. They are also usually advertised on A4 sheets attached to lamp posts. Unless you go looking it's easy to miss authority intent.

stevieturbo

I'd say that definitely makes most of them illegal then !!

One change was an industrial estate that's been 40 for decades....suddenly 2 small signs appear on lampposts at the 2 x entrances to the large estate ( and speed camera vans within of course )...friend gets nabbed for doing 38...in a 40, which is apparently now a 30.

The entrance he used had a sign about 5m in, on a lamp post on the left side as you drive in mounted about 5m height. In a car/small van the sign was actually barely visible when driving in.

So I queried via FOI about the change and legality. They said the area was always a 30, they just never signed it LOL. They also said they did not need to advertise any changes etc.

About a year later the sign was moved further in onto the next lamppost and lower down. But still only one sign.

The other entrance has 2 signs on new poles at a sensible height.

Oranoco

Submit an FOI request asking to see the Traffic Regulation Order that covers it as the start and end points are pretty precise. The terminal signage should also be not less than 600mm in diameter and in most cases should have a pair, the signs (TSRGD diagram 670-30) do not require their own illumination under Schedule 17 unless the route is a principle or primary route.

Are Street lights present on this road? If yes then it is by default a 30 limit unless signs are present to the contrary. Google Maps is useful as you can view roads across a time line

stevieturbo

Street lights have been present in the industrial estate, but even signage near entrance on main road always indicated 40 for the entire area.

but no 40 repeater signs in the actual area that changed...which begs the question, and I did ask them and never got an answer

How far after a 40 sign does the speed limit change to 30 if there isnt a further 40 sign if the entire area has lighting ?

I did record dashcam video and maps photos etc from the time of the entrance etc, but deleted it recently, as this incident was about 2-3 years ago.

Oranoco

A very good question and one I have asked without getting a defined response to.

stevieturbo

They only answers questions that suit them...and sometimes they answer completely different questions to what you ask !! LOL

I asked about justifications for a mobile speed camera at a very specific location once....then they tried to give answers listing accidents for a location 10 miles away !!! WTF.

Oranoco

When you do your FOI request number your questions and ask them in a way that leave no ambiguity. If you don't get the answers to your questions don't be afraid to tell them they have not complied with your request as they are required to. Threaten to escalate and talk to the press

Sinbad

iTrader: (1)

The weight limit is for at night possibly due to noise for the locals but day deliveries are fine 😊

big_wig_074

what time are the trucks there? as the only time theyre allowed there is outside of those times, ie 7am-10pm is fine and legal. or are you bothered about vehicles driving down there overnight?

Smit

iTrader: (5)

Hi Big Wig,

The road is busy during the day with trucks etc which doesn't bother us at all...

Just seems no one pays attention to the time restriction. Last night went to bed at gone 12.30 and a few were still rattling along the road not giving a toss.

big_wig_074

Smit
FYI the other end of your road, it says 7.5t except for loading, no time restrictions, so trucks coming in from the other end would be fine to go down there if theyre loading in the industrial areas on that road or to the shops etc that there are there. someone in the council etc needs to look at the consistency of the signs really.

Smit

iTrader: (5)

Thanks for the advice

Will see if I can talk to the council and see what they say

Sinbad

iTrader: (1)

You could always contact the depot the vehicles are delivering to and ask them to remind the drivers about the restrictions.

We can't leave the yard before 6am due to keeping the locals happy and they are very keen on you observing weight limits 👍🏼