scoooby slayer

iTrader: (4)

ive got a machine in it had 8 gallons of water in the sump !
so we cleaned, stripped and removed sump, ive found a hole about 2mm across 1" below the bottom of bore 1.

im in the process of removeing the engine to flip it upside down and try and make a thread and plug the hole, had a couple of beers and im sitting here thinking of anything I can use to plug the hole without removeing the motor ? im thinking about a silicon covered pop rivet if I can get in there, or a tyre like plug.

any ideas invited before I continue stripping to remove the motor tmrw.

markk

iTrader: (2)

Tig weld it.

lacey

There is a glue which is used to fix rads ,
It's good with heat and pressure , you blow touch the area and just melt it on,

ajamesc

Chemical metal lol I have v'd out a split in the bottom of the fuel pump housings which is part of the block which was leaking oil on a Daf cf85 never came back. Also repaired a large split across the top of the rang Change casing on a zf 8 speed gearbox that was again pissing oil out

scoooby slayer

iTrader: (4)

im just looking into belzona 1511 now resistant upto 150c, and could be applied from under the machine without removeing the motor.

I think the block has corroded from the inside and is very thin in the area. I would strip and full rebuild as the motors bottom end has done 15000 hours but if its not done within a week I could loose hire as I need to get it back out and get whats replaced it out on another job.

ajamesc

I've used chemical metal loads it's really strong rebuilt a pto case with it once after a prop fell off and smashed it. There's a high temp one as well. As a temp repair that's your best bet

botters

iTrader: (2)

weld it

ajamesc

Be hard to weld if it's cast

botters

iTrader: (2)

ive migged cast before just got to get it clean then very hot with burning gear and cool it down slowly either covering it with sand or bringing the temp down slowly with burning gear

GINGExR2 T

iTrader: (1)

.

If water is coming through it then it must be pressurised so would need welding surely, does the piston skirt come down that fair, if yes would the rings come down that far, if yes for either why not drill the hole a bit bigger, tap a thread and put a small bolt with loctite in there then carefully file the head off the bolt.

Or even a tek screw, saves trying to tap a thread.


Ginger


.

RigPig

we use liquid metal at work, takes high temps and high pressure, 2000 + psi.

scoooby slayer

iTrader: (4)

I have noticed this morning some milky water from the bottom of the rad also. when I drained it the coolant was clean though so its residue from the bottom but im still worried about how it got there.

im also worried if this liquid metal will hold as there will be water pressure directly behind it trying to blow it off, id like to fill from inside the block as then the pressure would push the sealant into the hole but its not really possible. im thinking I need to get the motor out, upside down so I can look in there easily and see how bad it is, looking from underneath around the hole looks very thin like tin !

stevieturbo

Anything you do there will be very temporary at best. Especially if the actual problem is corrosion and very thin metal.

Using any epoxy from the outside really isnt going to be great.

How much clearance do you have at the bottom of the liner ? Access ?

Could you machine up a press fit ring to press into the bottom of the bore and use a retaining compound to seal it ? ( ie unbolt rod and slide this up )

Or maybe braze a patch over the hole ?

Either way...it wont last indefinitely

Or if you can access the actual waterway near the bottom of the liner, fully flush/clean the block and fill over the problem area from the inside with epoxy cement
The yanks fill a lot of race blocks with cement to strengthen them, so same idea really. Although I'd think cleanliness is important. ( not actual concrete type cement obviously )

scoooby slayer

iTrader: (4)

my thoughts exactly mate, I will remove the motor and see if I can drill, tap and bung the hole with a bolt, if not I guess its gonna be strip to a bare block time which I could do without tbh

the motor doesn't have liners but the hole is below the bore anyway in the rough casting where it tapers off, could be a bad casting I have read these cat 3116 motors wernt great castings at all.

do you know what the exact solution is they use for filling blocks steve ? I guess to clean the area from the top id need it down to bare block then shot blast or similar from the top to clean the area.

stevieturbo

If the area is a dead end, I'm sure some sort of acid cleaner might be enough ?

Then pour the cement in.

They usually fill either half or the entire block, often running no cooling water at all, or only through the cylinder head.

So not sure how suitable it might be...again it's back to the temporary thing. But filling from the inside should be a lot better than epoxy from the outside if it can be done.

http://www.hardblok.com/

In your case though you'd only be wanting to fill the dodgy area itself, not the entire block really.

scoooby slayer

iTrader: (4)

sounds like a plan if the plug the hole fails. ive just got in for lunch, and ive realised now how the oily water mix has got in the radiator.
the engine holds 4 gallons of oil, when we drained it there was 12 gallons of oily water mix in the sump, it was like grey paint !
so ive looked at where the hole is and with 12 gallons in there the oil level will of been in the bottom of the bores

it also explains why it wouldn't idle as there was resistance there from the sludge under the pistons I think, as soon as we drained the coolant and changed the oil it ran perfectly.

I ran it for a few seconds with no coolant in to position it in the workshop and it ran absolutely perfectly hence I don't want to strip it, just plug the hole if possible, fingers crossed theres enough thickness there to tap a thread and plug the hole......

stevieturbo

Can you get an oxy acetylene or mapp gas torch in there to try and braze it, ? silver solder ?

if drilling/tapping, a tapered plug would probably be best ?

scoooby slayer

iTrader: (4)

well the block is paper thin, had a prod about with a pick and the hole is now 3mm across and like a rizla thickness

so now removeing the cylinder head, needs to filled from above as best I can the question is what do I use ?
would moroso block filler seal it and stay watertight with a couple of inches of it in the bottom ?

ajamesc

Chemical metal it and get it out earning lol

stevieturbo

I guess in theory it should...

But again you can only consider this temporary no matter what way you do it, unless you re-liner the block.

scoooby slayer

iTrader: (4)

even relinering wont do it the hole is below the bore right at the very bottom of the block, basically its fooked

I got nothing to loose, just want to put the best chance I got material in there so chemical metal or hardblok ?

stevieturbo

IMO most chemical metals are shit and do not remain solid enough when hot.

I've never used the hardblok though, so not sure of it's makeup or how robust it is either, or whether it's a pour in type of deal, or a putty type stuff like most chemical metals.

But you will need to get it very clean down in there no matter what you put in.

Surely brazing or something like that would be a more permanent repair ? It would definitely adhere to the cast iron, that's for sure.

scoooby slayer

iTrader: (4)

I can get it tig/brazed but it will need engine removeing flipping upside down and crank removeing, I need to do what I can from above with the head removed, the hardblok will run and flow like wet concrete so will fill the voids easily, I honestly think silicone and a little plate above it would seal it tbh.

il hopefully have the head off tomorrow so will then be able to see what im dealing with and what access ive got, its a hateful engine the 3116 my first time working on it the injectors are in the head and theres like a cam in there, its rubbish and I hate it give me a 3306 anyday, when the engine fails I may retrofit a 3306 in the frame.

ajamesc

I find chemical metal very good and in the commercial world which is I don't give a fuck what it looks like I just won't to use it now!
It's done me well on a fair few bodges. Never seen it go soft

scoooby slayer

iTrader: (4)

well the head is now off. we have managed to get a self tapping screw from underneath and it doesn't leak at all with brake cleaner in the water jacket.

looking in the water gallery there is a defect area bad casting and a piece has broken away, so im going to screw in the self taper with jb weld all over the screw, then fill and smooth each side of the screw with jb weld.

I have ordered 28lb of hardblock aswell so il have the option to give the base of the block a layer if I want to.

also gonna rering and new mains/big ends while were there they have done 15000 hours so done well imo.