Stu @ M Developments

iTrader: (12)

Hi Guys,
Was just chatting with JayCos on the phone (Its less painful than having to look at him) and we got to talking about gearbox destroying torque and I said I would pop a video up of my new daily driver with our stage 2 remap on it.

Factory car - all emissions hardware still installed. (DPF/EGR/Cats etc)


Turbo Diesesl really have come a very long way... and every day I still speak to people who think they are like the old Ford Escort 1.8Td units of old and they "Hate" diesels. its a shame, but diesel really is the immediate future until electric takes over. As most of you know, my daily driver for the last 6 years has been my E39 M5.

I still have her, but this is significantly faster in almost every scenario. She's just missing that awesome V8 wail...

xr2mk2turbo

these are amazing engines, my mum had a mapped 535d on a 57 plate, the BHP was similar to yours, but your torque figure is huge ours was at about 550, and that was almost comical on the road with the auto box and instant gear changes, she has a 07 M5 tourer now (V10), and IMO the diesel was better all round, M5 is very jerky on the up change, im going to buy my own 535d next year hopefully, truly amazing engines. great results on the torque

SteveB

iTrader: (3)

All people that go from a performance car to a fast diesel always go on and on and on and on about MPG and torque....lol

I'll stick with a fast petrol car thanks.

Chip

iTrader: (3)

Good results there, bet that shifts.

Lovely cars the 635D, Porkie kindly lent me his cabrio one for a few days and I really did NOT want to give it back!


Battery technology is the killer for electric for a long time I reckon, we need a real leap forward with that.

Chip

iTrader: (3)

Lol,

On track I agree, but for a big comfy barge on the road, the effortless lowdown power delivery of a big turbo D is fantastic and getting more economy is a good thing as I pay enough taxes already without paying too much on fuel as well!

Jay,

iTrader: (4)

Is that 635 remote control or have you got even shorter ? cant see you over the steering wheel I really dont like bmw's but had the chance to drive a 335 coupe denzel with a dms tune on it and that was fantastically awesome to drive never would believe it was a diesel and your setup has more power must have a go anyone want a shonky cossie ?

Jay,

iTrader: (4)

Thing is its the shock you can have all that torque and the runing cost of a nissan micra I can see the attraction

Rick

I must say I'm still a petrol fan given the choice. I don't luckily have to do a lot of mileage so economy isn't a huge concern. If i did, then it would have to be a Diesel Six.

Four pots are rough IMO, even in something new and German, Six's are a different ballgame, the difference in refinement from a 4 is astonishing, much more so than moving from a petrol 4 to a petrol 6.

I owned a 335d for a while to do some development work on and it made pretty much the same numbers as above. I was a little disappointed to be honest. It was a fast car but I think I expected too much. Probably due to tuned diesel owners constantly banging on about how fast they are!

Turbo petrol six's are where it's at for me, power, torque and refinement - they are just a little out of reach for most.

Rick

Chip

iTrader: (3)

You said running costs, but you meant fuel costs I assume?

There is a difference, order some new tyres, a new fuel pump, and a new set of injectors for both a 635D and a 1.0 micra and you will soon realise what I mean

Jay,

iTrader: (4)

Yes fuel costs I forgot I should of been politically correct with you back on here

scoooby slayer

iTrader: (4)

i gotta agree the best thing about tuning is loads of revs and power which isnt possible with a diesel.

as a daily car though that 635d must be lovely, smooth economical lazy grunt, but i need that 100s of hp uptop aswell as loads of low/mid range torque

how economical are these 635d mpg ?
my 3.8 gtr will return from 13mpg city to 26 mpg motorway roughly

Chip

iTrader: (3)

Not a case of politically correct, more just a case that lots of people when they are looking at the costs of owning a car, take too little into account and make the wrong decision accordingly.

I see lots of people buying diesels and ending up worse off than if they bought petrol.

Its great technology for the right application, but its not a one size fits all answer, small cheap to run petrol cars still have their merits.

stevieturbo

Diesel's are only part of the future...and modern diesels are superb to drive with. Which is something many would never have thought they's say 20 years ago.

But diesels are still, by far the dirtiest engines as far as emissions go....and that aspect may be the killer for their long term future if emissions rules keep getting stricter and stricter.

I'm also surprised there arent more automatics around too. For daily driver, traffic, knocking about....a well developed auto is great...although a bad one can be horrific.

From an emissions standpoint too, an auto should be better as it could help remove some driver madness if there were variable driving modes available for the box.

But as Chip says. All these things are great when they work. One little problem on these fancy cars...and you could be faced with a bill the price of a small sporty petrol car.
And that's just one repair...

Rick

The market share will swing towards petrol cars fairly soon, with Euro 7, 8, etc emission regulations making it difficult and expensive for Diesel cars to meet.

Rick

Stu @ M Developments

iTrader: (12)

That's the downside for sure. Where pure driving enjoyment comes into it, you can't beat the sound of high rpm, and the 5k these are limited to spoils proceedings somewhat.

The power thing is down to the individual of course and what they call powerful. 360bhp is hardly underpowered (think BMW M3, T34 and greys cossie etc) and of course the entire rev range has big power available unlike most petrol cars where you have to keep the engine in the right rev range to make fast progress.

Driving a modern diesel requires a complete overhaul of your driving style, nailing it at 4000rpm and hoping for great progress results in a big fail. Lol

Stu @ M Developments

iTrader: (12)

The ZF boxes in these are world class. 6 speed, very smooth and fully servo controlled with their own ecu. They have 4 program's, extra economy, economy, sport and extreme sport, all dictated by driver throttle input, steering angle, vehicle angle and yaw sensors so it can accurately control the gear selection. For example, they never shift while cornering and going downhill they select a lower gear. The more throttle input you give, the longer it holds the gear for acceleration. Full manual paddle shift is also available at all times..

Stu @ M Developments

iTrader: (12)

Around town she tends to be in the low 30s.


60mph for 10 miles.





80mph for 20 miles

stu21t

Very impressive.
What can you get out of the 3.0d? I've got an e70 x5 I want doing.

ajamesc

There will always be a future for diesel vehicles it's the only fuel heavy transport will run on.
Take Daf for instant the latest euro 6 engines with egr and ad blue have Nox levels down to a point wear there almost nothing. We have been hinted to that euro 7 and beond will start to look at reducing co levels.
It's said in the middle of London with the poor air quality a modern euro 6 truck engine puts out cleaner than it draws in.

stevieturbo

Didnt Saab make a similar claim about their petrol engines a few years back ?

Maybe car owners should charge the government for cleaning up their city air !!

ajamesc

They may have but I doubt it was true lol.
A modern truck engine is very complex. Part of euro 6 is it meets emission levels from as soon as it's started. Ad blue will only work at a certian exhaust temp so until that's met egr is used to meet emission levels but also to warm the engine as well as the turbo being variable vain and there being a back pressure valve all to heat the exhaust gasses. To the point the exhaust can take over. The exhaust has a particular filter a cat and an ammonia filter it's a very clever system. The exhaust after treatment ecu is the trucks master ecu and controls the engine ecu

dojj

iTrader: (3)

i drive the newest version of an enviro 200 bus with all this emissions stuff on it

it's obviously a diseasal but what amazes me is that running from 4.30 in the morning (my shift this week) till 2am at night (my shift last week) they use between 80-100 litres of fuel in an entire 21.5 hours to move a 7+ ton vehicle about the place

ok, so it's rev range is from 700 rpm to 2200 rpm and it's got fancy stuff like only applying drive when you have your foot on the accelerator (otherwise it disengages drive, say you've got the handbrake on, or your foot on the brakes there is that little stutter before you can actually move off) and they are fly by wire throttle controlled etc, but the most amazing thing about them is that you can only accelerate at a given rate, no matter if you are empty or fully loaded, it will simply hold a gear longer if it's got more weight on and change up much much too early if you are empty (which makes traffic light grand prix in a bus very intresting when a fully loaded decker can keep up with a tiddly little single deck )

so yes, diseasal is the future as far as things go, but petrol will still carry on for smaller engined motors as they are now VERY efficient, for example my 1.25 fiesta will do 40 mpg on the work run while my mondeo does about 25 mpg, the mondeo though is a much more relaxing drive, which is why i am now looking at getting a fiesta diseasal, i must be mad

Glenn_

iTrader: (1)

So do you think engine manufacturers have gone as far as they can with petrol engines. I diesel engine has go so much better since the 90s. Where as imo the petrol engine has just stayed the same since the 90s.

gingeRS

I love my 530d and the twin turbo engine looks awesome

These big engined bm's aren't quite everything on mpg though, mine does 27mpg round town and 40+mpg on the motorway

My mums focus does 45mpg round town and 65mpg on the motorway

Do not buy for economy, but it's fun to have that much torque!!!

Rick

Not true at all. Diesel engines for cars have advanced hugely in recent years but that is now going to slow due to emission laws. It is small turbo petrol engines that are the are the future on cars. Look at Audi's TFSI engines and Fords own Ecoboost - massively ahead of what we had in the 90's and that development will continue.

Rick

Damocos

Would this stage 2 re-map be the same on a 335d ? That's an awesome power figure too by they way

Stu @ M Developments

iTrader: (12)

Everything we offer can be searched here mate.
http://www.evolutionchips.co.uk/Vehi...ng_Search.html

Stu @ M Developments

iTrader: (12)

No mate, stratified stuff from Audi is still coming along nicely as is variable valve lift stuff. Petrol is still developing nicely and is a long way from where it was in the 90s. Fords Ecoboost is working well too on the newer models.

Stu @ M Developments

iTrader: (12)

The bigger engined 3litre 6pot beemers have never been great on fuel. They are far more performance orientated than their 4 pot counterparts, but buyers should choose the model accordingly of course... if you want economy, buy a smaller engined diesel, if you want performance as well, buy the bigger one.

You cant compare apples and oranges, its unfair.
My missus drives a 14 plate Nissan Puke 1.5DCi and it does 70+ MPG no bother, but then, it doesn't accelerate like this either...



LOL

stevieturbo

I guess you could say things like direct injection, variable vane turbochargers, and other new turbo technology are still largely to filter into the petrol world.

All the expensive things to repair on diesels when they fuck up....are making their way into petrols lol

Stu @ M Developments

iTrader: (12)

Yes mate - but be aware that this level of torque exceeds ZF's quoted torque limit for their gearbox. Ive never heard of one breaking, but its worth bearing in mind.

stu21t

Thanks stu, I see you've kept the dpf and egr, would you recommend keeping these in and working if they're in good condition? The cars a daily driver so doesn't need to be a rocket ship. I actually think it's quick enough for what it is, and mines the baby one lol.

XRT_si

iTrader: (2)

Having driven pretty much every new diesel BMW model going, the way they have got these cars to drive is truly astounding in terms of performance and drivability.

Particularly good was the triple-turbo M50d X5, which leaves an E46 M3 off the line!

Also, recently drove a 435d xDrive, which is the quickest diesel BMW have ever built. 313hp, 467lb ft and 62mph in 4.7 seconds and it felt it!

Only thing is none of them are that good on fuel, even when being light footed, let alone getting anywhere near the claimed MPG figure.

Stu @ M Developments

iTrader: (12)

More power is certainly available if we remove them but:

A) Its now illegal
B) It will smoke

Personally, I dislike smoke of any form and the systems work well as long as you drive them in a suitable manner that allows regeneration, be it passive or active.
The systems, whilst under complex PID control, are actually quite simple. EGR, which is used to change the temperature of combustion can still be bypassed with no problem (when done properly, not just switched off in ecu) and so can DPF (used to remove exhaust soot) currently as the only MOT check is a "visual" so if dealt with carefully, it can be removed and we have done literally thousands through our network, if not into the tens of thousands.

However, a little common sense will actually stop these systems failing.
The DPF is of course the big one... It can be a headache, but 80% of problems are operator error.
(But not usually operator fault, as the operator is not up to speed with what the vehicle needs) Indeed a DPF can easily last over 100'000 miles.

A brief rundown of what I mean by "A suitable manner"...

A DPF requires a regeneration event when back-pressure starts to get high.
Because this superheats the exhaust system, there are safeguards built into the program to ensure this is done with plenty of cooling airflow around it and on a engine in good enough health to take it.
The programming typically looks something like this...

• Engine temps must be higher than 90c
• Engine must have been running for over 30 mins
• No faults must be present in the management system
• The vehicle must be doing a steady state of OVER 40mph
• The vehicle must have been in this state for a few minutes

If all the above conditions are met, it will initiate a DPF regeneration where injection events are added, and retarded, in order to superheat the exhaust system and catalyse the soot held within it.
This process will continue until the back pressure sensor reports acceptable levels at which point the process ends and a timer is set to countdown to the next regeneration event.

Now, as any garage will tell you, the amount of vehicles that come into the workshop with ZERO management errors are very very few and far between.
This means no regeneration will take place on said vehicles and the DPF will continue to catch soot, and clog up as per any "filter medium".

The most common one is glow plug errors, people assume because it still starts ok they will ignore it, and ignorant garage staff back up this decision because they don't understand the complications this causes.

The next most common are thermostats leaking. It's VERY common on the BMW x30 and x35 motors.
It only leaks off its seat slightly, but enough to drop coolant temps to around 86c. Again, ignorant garages, including main dealers, report this temperature as fine. It's not.
Modern diesels almost exclusively run between 92 and 102 degrees and again, this small discrepancy stops regeneration events.

Another big one is engine oils... Did you know a DPF equipped car MUST run a special engine oil?
Again, many bloody garages dont know (or care?) about this and continue to use the barrels they have in stock that give the most profit.
Wrong oil clogs DPF's fast as they cant handle the soot that non DPF compatible oils cause!

Anyway, I'm waffling and I've a car to Dyno, but if anyone's interested to learn more, please just say so as I'm always happy to talk technical about cars, but fear it's boring you lot to tears since ist about diseasel and not high octane petrol... so I will leave it right there for now.

Stu @ M Developments

iTrader: (12)

That engines Epic. I love it and am already getting enquiries about fitting them into x35d Chassis and sorting out the management problems that will ensue. LOL

XRT_si

iTrader: (2)

It really is the best diesel I've ever driven by a mile, it even sounds good, not like a diesel at all.

They didn't out it in any other model in this country because of complications in converting it to work in right-hand drive format I understand, but that will be to do with the xDrive as well.

That engine would be epic in a 3 Series. I'd really like a 1 Series Coupe with the x35d engine personally.

dojj

iTrader: (3)

Waffle away stu, its intresting and im learning stuff into the bargain

Stu @ M Developments

iTrader: (12)

Thats the official line indeed... however, look at the power and torque curves and then compare it to the M3 and other sports models like the 335i and consider the marketing problems...

stu21t

Please do stu. Technical posts are by far the best to read.
I'm sure lots of people on here drive diseasels and I for one would like to be educated on them.
I also hate smoke so will keep the dpf fitted.

When I bought my car after a couple of weeks the dpf light came on, turns out the throttle valve didn't work (common prob) and the egr stat was stuck open so it wouldn't get over 70*
So it missed the last 2 regens.
Changed both of those and it did a regen straight away and now runs much better.

XRT_si

iTrader: (2)

True, this would make sense. The current x35d already makes around 60lb ft more torque than the new M3/M4 as it is! Though having driven them both the latter feels like it actually has more on the road.

The 335d has been stepping on 335i toes for awhile, but BMW are beginning to embrace proper sports diesels.