Racelogic VBox Sport - anyone use one?
08-06-2014, 04:28 PM
#1
Racelogic VBox Sport - anyone use one?
Hi guys, As topic, I'm Looking for a good GPS data logger with a powerful GPS engine for development on some stuff and wondered if any of you have any real world experience with this Racelogic unit? On paper it certainly ticks all the boxes. Going to hit the purchase button soon if I don't read anything bad, so thought it worth a quick as with you guys as it's likely right up some of your streets.
09-06-2014, 08:30 AM
#5
reliable reviews ? youtube has it all these days. Sometimes as good as a google search.
https://www.youtube.com/results?sear...gic+vbox+sport
https://www.youtube.com/results?sear...gic+vbox+sport
Was hoping for an end user report saying something like:
"Yeah, used it 30 times at the pod and every time its been accurate"
"Yeah, used it 30 times at the pod and only once was it even close to accurate"
09-06-2014, 08:49 AM
#6
Racelogic do have a fairly good reputation. It claims a 20Hz GPS which is over the normal Dash Performance box thingy's 10Hz units...really cant see why it wouldnt be accurate.
If the unit is cheaper because of no display, cheaper shell, more modern cheaper components etc...then it should be as good as their other products. It's still Ł300, so not exactly a cheap product.
Ive had a Race Technology AX-22 for several years, and tested it against various drag strips and always found it to be very accurate. However it's very old, crappy to use, and even their software isnt particularly nice. And it claims only a 5Hz GPS, although also uses accelerometers too I believe.
If it can be deemed accurate, then for sure the Racelogic should be far better.
If they made one for Android...I'd consider buying one.
Only issues I see with requiring a phone to control it. Are just that. Laying a finger on a phone whilst the keys are in the ignition anywhere where the road traffic act applies. Well we all know how that can go these days.
From that point of view, their dash mounted and controlled unit is more appealing.
If the unit is cheaper because of no display, cheaper shell, more modern cheaper components etc...then it should be as good as their other products. It's still Ł300, so not exactly a cheap product.
Ive had a Race Technology AX-22 for several years, and tested it against various drag strips and always found it to be very accurate. However it's very old, crappy to use, and even their software isnt particularly nice. And it claims only a 5Hz GPS, although also uses accelerometers too I believe.
If it can be deemed accurate, then for sure the Racelogic should be far better.
If they made one for Android...I'd consider buying one.
Only issues I see with requiring a phone to control it. Are just that. Laying a finger on a phone whilst the keys are in the ignition anywhere where the road traffic act applies. Well we all know how that can go these days.
From that point of view, their dash mounted and controlled unit is more appealing.
09-06-2014, 09:07 AM
#7
Racelogic do have a fairly good reputation. It claims a 20Hz GPS which is over the normal Dash Performance box thingy's 10Hz units...really cant see why it wouldnt be accurate.
If the unit is cheaper because of no display, cheaper shell, more modern cheaper components etc...then it should be as good as their other products. It's still Ł300, so not exactly a cheap product.
Ive had a Race Technology AX-22 for several years, and tested it against various drag strips and always found it to be very accurate. However it's very old, crappy to use, and even their software isnt particularly nice. And it claims only a 5Hz GPS, although also uses accelerometers too I believe.
If it can be deemed accurate, then for sure the Racelogic should be far better.
If they made one for Android...I'd consider buying one.
Only issues I see with requiring a phone to control it. Are just that. Laying a finger on a phone whilst the keys are in the ignition anywhere where the road traffic act applies. Well we all know how that can go these days.
From that point of view, their dash mounted and controlled unit is more appealing.
If the unit is cheaper because of no display, cheaper shell, more modern cheaper components etc...then it should be as good as their other products. It's still Ł300, so not exactly a cheap product.
Ive had a Race Technology AX-22 for several years, and tested it against various drag strips and always found it to be very accurate. However it's very old, crappy to use, and even their software isnt particularly nice. And it claims only a 5Hz GPS, although also uses accelerometers too I believe.
If it can be deemed accurate, then for sure the Racelogic should be far better.
If they made one for Android...I'd consider buying one.
Only issues I see with requiring a phone to control it. Are just that. Laying a finger on a phone whilst the keys are in the ignition anywhere where the road traffic act applies. Well we all know how that can go these days.
From that point of view, their dash mounted and controlled unit is more appealing.
As an aside, it doesnt "Need" an IOS device to control it. It does all logging automatically when it senses movement and drops it to an SD card where it can be recalled later. The free IOS performance and lap timer Apps just seems an awesomely friendly way to use it and of course, you can pres start whenever you like as it then starts and stops recording every time you start and stop, so you could technically start it on your driveway and then do the runs anytime you like** if you dont have a passenger to press start for you.
(**thats speculation on my part based on the fact it says it resets every time you stop dead.)
Last edited by Stu @ M Developments; 09-06-2014 at 09:08 AM.
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09-06-2014, 09:22 AM
#8
How long of a stop does it take to reset ?
That was the crappiest thing about the AX-22. Every time, you had to stop, configure the unit and then hit start, wait a second or so for it to reset itself and then you could go.
And it would only record/display what you had set it to do. ie 1/4, distance, speed, or continuous.
If the latter, the only way to review was via the saved log. No option to display data at the time.
Racelogic stuff seems to be far fare more used friendly in every respect. Although to be fair, the RT unit I have is ancient.
With the datalogging on most aftermarket ecu's though now, for basic straightline stuff, it makes the plug in GPS stuff less desirable.
But for multiple vehicles, and independent measurement, 4wd stuff with lots of wheelspin, and track recording. The GPS is invaluable.
That was the crappiest thing about the AX-22. Every time, you had to stop, configure the unit and then hit start, wait a second or so for it to reset itself and then you could go.
And it would only record/display what you had set it to do. ie 1/4, distance, speed, or continuous.
If the latter, the only way to review was via the saved log. No option to display data at the time.
Racelogic stuff seems to be far fare more used friendly in every respect. Although to be fair, the RT unit I have is ancient.
With the datalogging on most aftermarket ecu's though now, for basic straightline stuff, it makes the plug in GPS stuff less desirable.
But for multiple vehicles, and independent measurement, 4wd stuff with lots of wheelspin, and track recording. The GPS is invaluable.
09-06-2014, 09:58 AM
#9
Ive no idea mate, it doesnt specify.
One of the things I like about this one is its rechargeable, so you dont need to apply power to it, thus I can just sit it an the dash on an anti slip mat and off we go.
No messing about with trailing power leads etc.
Ive just downloaded a vbox data file from a circuit racing website and one of the users has created this great website where you port in your datafile: http://www.vboxtools.com/
And it spits out all the data you can imagine from the runs.
Fascinating kit - looking forward to mine arriving.
One of the things I like about this one is its rechargeable, so you dont need to apply power to it, thus I can just sit it an the dash on an anti slip mat and off we go.
No messing about with trailing power leads etc.
Ive just downloaded a vbox data file from a circuit racing website and one of the users has created this great website where you port in your datafile: http://www.vboxtools.com/
And it spits out all the data you can imagine from the runs.
Fascinating kit - looking forward to mine arriving.
Last edited by Stu @ M Developments; 09-06-2014 at 09:59 AM.
09-06-2014, 11:09 AM
#10
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I don't know if its the same but my performance box after a stop of around 4 seconds auto ends that datalog, then restarts as soon as you move again.
the only issue Ive had is bad signal twice now where it cant pic up sats and it doesn't record anything.
the only issue Ive had is bad signal twice now where it cant pic up sats and it doesn't record anything.
09-06-2014, 01:09 PM
#11
15K+ Super Poster!!
They record everything and detect start and stop which is great. As mentioned, the only issue with them is GPS reception. Can take a while to lock, and need a clear view of the sky. It's because the data isn't heavily processed/filtered like on a TomTom type device for example.
But, as long as they keep hold of the signal they are very accurate.
Rick
But, as long as they keep hold of the signal they are very accurate.
Rick
09-06-2014, 04:58 PM
#13
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ive just realised I actually bought the Ł570 odd full kit and have the external aerial it is still in its box brand new sealed
lmaoits a shame I lost signal when I did as I was well into 3 digits
12-06-2014, 09:23 AM
#15
Went ahead and bought one, it works really well on both phone, and PC.
For future readers of this topic....
Some data from the Racelogic VBox Sport.
And some graphical data for a 0 - 100 run in 11.37 seconds.
30 - 50mph in 1.8 seconds.
50 - 70 in 2.5 seconds
70 - 100 in 4.8 seconds
For future readers of this topic....
Some data from the Racelogic VBox Sport.
And some graphical data for a 0 - 100 run in 11.37 seconds.
30 - 50mph in 1.8 seconds.
50 - 70 in 2.5 seconds
70 - 100 in 4.8 seconds
is it a bmw ?
12-06-2014, 11:03 AM
#19
Yes mate, BMW 635d.
Totally standard with a quick remap. All cats, DPF, EGR etc are all still present as I cant abide smoky cars. this things cleaner than the equivalent petrol car.
She makes 553ftlb and 357bhp for now... bit of a work in progress really.
Totally standard with a quick remap. All cats, DPF, EGR etc are all still present as I cant abide smoky cars. this things cleaner than the equivalent petrol car.
She makes 553ftlb and 357bhp for now... bit of a work in progress really.
Last edited by Stu @ M Developments; 12-06-2014 at 11:05 AM.
12-06-2014, 11:39 AM
#23
Its a 3 litre by the way. the "5" designates the twin turbo models which are the only ones that perform like this. 1x Small and 1x large, compound charged.
12-06-2014, 12:07 PM
#24
That was the same as an old 525 I had. They claimed their superb diesel engijne made heaps of torque at a lowly 1900rpm. Which would have been nice.
Except their auto box made it near impossible to drive below 3000rpm !! it just wanted ro rev it's nuts off all the time !
Does the Vbox software have a facility to generate/guesstimate some sort of power/torque graphs from the data ( after inputting weight, cd rolling losses etc etc )
12-06-2014, 12:18 PM
#25
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I love the 6 series mate. genuine GT car, room for 2 adults and 2 laptops in the cabin and a ton of boot space. LOL They come with every imaginable option like lane change assist, automatic high beam etc, really awesome car when allied to the 6 speed adaptive autobox and still returns decent MPG. Win + Win = Big Win.
Its a 3 litre by the way. the "5" designates the twin turbo models which are the only ones that perform like this. 1x Small and 1x large, compound charged.
Its a 3 litre by the way. the "5" designates the twin turbo models which are the only ones that perform like this. 1x Small and 1x large, compound charged.
what boost is it running stu ?
12-06-2014, 12:50 PM
#26
That was the same as an old 525 I had. They claimed their superb diesel engijne made heaps of torque at a lowly 1900rpm. Which would have been nice. Except their auto box made it near impossible to drive below 3000rpm !! it just wanted ro rev it's nuts off all the time !
The dyno issue was that it wont physically let you engage 4th in manual mode below 1250rpm, it drops back to third if your try.
Does the Vbox software have a facility to generate/guesstimate some sort of power/torque graphs from the data ( after inputting weight, cd rolling losses etc etc )
(Only got it yesterday) It even allows you to overlay you data via GPS positioning over racetracks on Google earth so you can see corner speed and forces etc. Bloody awesome kit.
Last edited by Stu @ M Developments; 12-06-2014 at 12:52 PM.
12-06-2014, 05:58 PM
#30
15K+ Super Poster!!
Just old enough to let you map it Stu! How do you find the box? For me it slips the torque converter too much on light throttle when pulling away, and sports shifts are a bit clunky. It's fine in normal/GT mode driving though
12-06-2014, 06:22 PM
#31
12-06-2014, 07:05 PM
#33
Reset the mechatronic solenoid adaptations Rick. They are always fine after that. My gear changes are almost imperceptible, just how they should be. Mine, like most, was clunky to start with. The 8 pressure adaptations happen initially when new and over time the fluid viscosity changes a little and the solenoids wear and the pressures drift out of spec. The clue is a random kick in the arse instead of a smooth change.
12-06-2014, 07:07 PM
#34
Power on a turbo diesel is simply a balance between temperature and smoke output in essence.
The more fuel we add, the hotter and smokier it gets. The boost is there to lean and cool it all back off again.
Bad mapping is rife in this cars era as the DPF hides the soot, so tuners not working with EGT and AFR are creating time bombs, lots of failed turbines, cracked heads, cracked pistons etc. in the good old days they just made them smoke a tad and you were there, but now you can't see it. Lol
Last edited by Stu @ M Developments; 12-06-2014 at 07:36 PM.
12-06-2014, 08:25 PM
#36
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Boost doesn't help power in diesels mate, it just allows input of fuel. The whole system works backwards to the petrol engines you know and love. The more boost you add, the less power they make, unless you balance it with fuel to richen it back up.
Power on a turbo diesel is simply a balance between temperature and smoke output in essence.
The more fuel we add, the hotter and smokier it gets. The boost is there to lean and cool it all back off again.
Bad mapping is rife in this cars era as the DPF hides the soot, so tuners not working with EGT and AFR are creating time bombs, lots of failed turbines, cracked heads, cracked pistons etc. in the good old days they just made them smoke a tad and you were there, but now you can't see it. Lol
Power on a turbo diesel is simply a balance between temperature and smoke output in essence.
The more fuel we add, the hotter and smokier it gets. The boost is there to lean and cool it all back off again.
Bad mapping is rife in this cars era as the DPF hides the soot, so tuners not working with EGT and AFR are creating time bombs, lots of failed turbines, cracked heads, cracked pistons etc. in the good old days they just made them smoke a tad and you were there, but now you can't see it. Lol
i rebuilt the motor and diesel pump in 2007 and its done over 9000 hrs to date still going strong and using minimul oil
my gtr runs 6 temp probes in the manifold runners and it was tuned to keep it safe at i think ryan said about 1000c or just under max.
to keep in that envelope on v power it runs 1.3 bar mid range 1.5 bar uptop anymore and its past the temps he wanted to see.
on e50 it can run 1.6 bar midrange and 1.75 bar uptop and temps stay below 1000c 950hp.
i never used to really worry about it but now i have the data if i ran 2 bar of boost on v power the afrs would no doubt be ok but the temps would be so far through the roof it would no doubt fail in the end
whats the actual limit on temps for a diesel stu in the manifold roughly ?
12-06-2014, 09:42 PM
#37
You remember right, I'd agree that you don't want to be pushing Into 4 figures on any petrol turbo engine if you can help it.
Ref temps on diesels... It Varies from engine to engine and of course where you measure it. My personal limit for sustained hard use is 1250 Deg F post turbo and pre cat. The problem is, there are other mechanisms that are affected by heat and not just pistons and heads. Variable geometry turbo assemblies for one really don't like huge temps and tend to be far more reliable at sub 1000 Deg F. As always, everything's a compromise and one that a tuner has to choose. That graph you see above for mine is the max power this will do reliably while keeping temps at sub 1250. If I push them to 1400 I can see 375bhp and 600ftlb and that's with DPF etc still installed. Lots more torque is available no problem, it's limited to 550ftlb on purpose as that's a tad over the exceeded maximum torque figure quoted by ZF who make the box. The DPF and cats are a big problem when trying to exceed this power level on this engine as all these restrictions = back pressure and more heat. But taking them out means more power and more smoke. Not a compromise I can make on my own car. I love DPF equipped diesels, can't beat smoke free 45mpg motoring with power to back it up. Another 100+ftlb is available no bother at all but to be fair! it's not only pushing an expensive gearbox hard! it also makes it damn hard to drive without breaking traction! and as we all know, "Power is nothing without control". She puts 550ftlb without fuss at all times which is great for RWD... 600 makes it a lot trickier and therefore a bit slower in the real world where you no longer dare nail it out of a corner and know it will stay under control. That's where we lose with diesels, we can't have huge bhp with revs to do more work with less torque causing problems like we can with big turbo petrol engines so we have to maximise the limited rev range we have to best compliment the limitations of the rest of the chassis, which can be tricky with big torque numbers at very low revs with RWD.
Ref temps on diesels... It Varies from engine to engine and of course where you measure it. My personal limit for sustained hard use is 1250 Deg F post turbo and pre cat. The problem is, there are other mechanisms that are affected by heat and not just pistons and heads. Variable geometry turbo assemblies for one really don't like huge temps and tend to be far more reliable at sub 1000 Deg F. As always, everything's a compromise and one that a tuner has to choose. That graph you see above for mine is the max power this will do reliably while keeping temps at sub 1250. If I push them to 1400 I can see 375bhp and 600ftlb and that's with DPF etc still installed. Lots more torque is available no problem, it's limited to 550ftlb on purpose as that's a tad over the exceeded maximum torque figure quoted by ZF who make the box. The DPF and cats are a big problem when trying to exceed this power level on this engine as all these restrictions = back pressure and more heat. But taking them out means more power and more smoke. Not a compromise I can make on my own car. I love DPF equipped diesels, can't beat smoke free 45mpg motoring with power to back it up. Another 100+ftlb is available no bother at all but to be fair! it's not only pushing an expensive gearbox hard! it also makes it damn hard to drive without breaking traction! and as we all know, "Power is nothing without control". She puts 550ftlb without fuss at all times which is great for RWD... 600 makes it a lot trickier and therefore a bit slower in the real world where you no longer dare nail it out of a corner and know it will stay under control. That's where we lose with diesels, we can't have huge bhp with revs to do more work with less torque causing problems like we can with big turbo petrol engines so we have to maximise the limited rev range we have to best compliment the limitations of the rest of the chassis, which can be tricky with big torque numbers at very low revs with RWD.
Last edited by Stu @ M Developments; 12-06-2014 at 09:45 PM.
12-06-2014, 09:55 PM
#38
My query is....how do you reliably calibrate an EGT sensor ?
Ive used various K-types, but some claim different ranges, by as much as 200degC or so.
So how would you go about testing and verifying 1000degC is actually 1000degC ?
Even if it is miles off topic lol
Ive used various K-types, but some claim different ranges, by as much as 200degC or so.
So how would you go about testing and verifying 1000degC is actually 1000degC ?
Even if it is miles off topic lol
12-06-2014, 10:10 PM
#39
I've found Decent quality non powered K types are all pretty good, it's only the thermistor and RTD types I've ever found to vary greatly.
To be fair, 90% of modern cars already have them as standard so monitoring temps while mapping stuff is an absolute doddle.
I normally use the snap on verdict for such work as it's wireless so I can go and sit in my office and monitor temps with a brew when the noise gets too much. Lol
On this image I was monitoring temp before DPF, temp before CAT, exhaust back pressure and charge temps.
15-10-2014, 01:34 PM
#40
Any bumps on this product ?
And I'll copy and paste what I've asked elsewhere..
RL VBox, Performance Box, Sport, Mini, Maxi, Allegro...WTF
Many people are using these, but they seem to have a huge array of these units available ?
The new Sport says 20Hz GPS which is bound to be good, but almost reads as if you need an Apple product to make full use of it.
Hardly a budget deal
Mini seems to be double the price of a Performance Box, and looks the same ? Seemingly most of the difference is just the VBox Tools software ?
Is hardware same ?
What are people using, positives and negatives ? Software all good or lacking in some areas ?
Is the Mini worth paying double over the Performance Box for example ?
And I'll copy and paste what I've asked elsewhere..
RL VBox, Performance Box, Sport, Mini, Maxi, Allegro...WTF
Many people are using these, but they seem to have a huge array of these units available ?
The new Sport says 20Hz GPS which is bound to be good, but almost reads as if you need an Apple product to make full use of it.
Hardly a budget deal
Mini seems to be double the price of a Performance Box, and looks the same ? Seemingly most of the difference is just the VBox Tools software ?
Is hardware same ?
What are people using, positives and negatives ? Software all good or lacking in some areas ?
Is the Mini worth paying double over the Performance Box for example ?
Last edited by stevieturbo; 15-10-2014 at 01:35 PM.
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