xrBennett

As the title, I realise that the springs are shorter than standard ones and I've read that they need shimming but I don't know what I shim them with and what size shims I need. I'm a complete n00b when it comes to mechanics but I'm trying to learn. I've read that I can use a washer or something but it just sounds a bit bodgy.

Please help an amateur lol

luke19790_3

Easier to use the springs from devil developments.

xrBennett

More money though and I've got spare 106 springs. If the 106 ones are easy enough to do then I might as well use them.

Thanks though!

SBT83

Or FRS items. But Cat cams (DD) springs are what I'm going for

gingerturbo

iTrader: (2)

^^yeh as said cat cam springs from DD^^

luke19790_3

Or st170 springs, which I used in my cheap build

SBT83

Do they work good then? What's their limit?

xrBennett

All these springs may be easier to use but doesn't really answer my question. I know people have used the 106 springs and I've got a set already so if I could use them it would save me spending more money.

luke19790_3

Don't know yet, but I'd like to get 300

think it Karlos who's using them

SBT83

I think you need to use silvertop collets and retainers for them to work not sure bout em needing shims. But to reply to your comment, yes it's bodging

studabear

frs and st170 springs are for black top heads though.

studabear

Mine did 291bhp at flywheel on them, 14.5 psi boost

rsmark86

iTrader: (3)

i got dd valve springs for £150 and have the piece of mind that i dont have to touch them again

so many people use the st springs or the 106 gti ones and still have problems later

P.S i see on ebay dd have put a "best offer function" on their listing so could grab a bargain now?

rsmark86

iTrader: (3)

holy shit i thought the other figure was flywheel i cant wait to see what i do with cosworth 4x4 t3 and 1 bar boost........... proberly bend a standard rod lol

studabear

lol, got the graphs scanned, 311 torque 291 @ fly iirc, had a few beers today.

Car is a handfull

studabear

I have been told my front housing on the turbo is a cossie item, the exh housing is a .48

rsmark86

iTrader: (3)

oh so in theory its about the same as my turbo?

i bet its a handfull with a genuine 300+lbs...... WHAT GEARBOX ARE YOU RUNNING?

defo looking forward to getting mine done, i have a earth problem in the car with the negative switch not priming the fuel pump

hopefully i will get there but a house move is taking over, but i guess as its off the road and a second car it dont matter.

i always said i wanted to run a bar but i might be pushing it with silvertop rods and c20let pistons so will need to get the mapping done to get it too be progressive

xrBennett

Cheers for the info mate

studabear

standard box mark, rebuilt last year

rsmark86

iTrader: (3)

No worries


Studabear : will you upgrade if it goes?

Mine was noisey before I cooked the h/g so I need to do something now, was thinking of going diesel ib5 with s2 LSD but rebuilt by a friend, did think about ka gears but after speaking to a couple of people they said use the diesel ones with my spec


Really wanted an mtx or 6 speed but too much for me

You need to do this York thrash next year with everyone, will be a good laugh

nevsrevs

yea you will have to shim them, to get them the same length.

It's Czech Mate

Why are you all quoting power when discussing suitability of springs?

Surely rpm is the limiting factor here for this discussion?

nevsrevs

the thing is with valve loft, you will not even notice it on the road really, when setting the car up your add alittle bit more pressure and not make any more power, tthen add a bit more still make no more power, as its going straight out the cylinders,
your have a engine making the same power at 0.8bar as at 1.8

rsmark86

iTrader: (3)

What you saying is true bud, but us amateurs have seen people run into problems at certain power outputs

With the zetec turbo it seems to be boost levels more than anything else, like stock springs at 11psi max

Hence I fitted ones that are rated too 2.6bar and hope to never have too worry

luke19790_3

That's good , wanted to run a bit more boost but on a t34

studabear

We had it at 18psi while mapping but the clutch was struggling, so backed it off to 14.5.

luke19790_3

I'm on a mtx so 18psi shouldn't be a issue

I hope

rsmark86

iTrader: (3)

sort of wish i put steel rods in while it was apart but atleast i wont have to go mad on brakes and transmission ect, i would be happy with 250bhp @flywheel so wont need hardly any boost with my spec

XRT_si

iTrader: (2)

It's funny how things have changed - Ian Howell used to say you would need double valve spring conversion for big boost/power a few years ago!

Now people use 106/ST springs for moderate power and single Cat Cams springs for 600bhp!

It's Czech Mate

Agreed, Boost and Rpm are relevant here, although there is waaaaaay more to it for a complete discussion on the spring spec required!

rsmark86

iTrader: (3)

I just over spec and never worry

Always go for the best springs on the market, in my eyes it's not an area to do on a budget

Turbo Zetec

iTrader: (1)

I wouldn't bother with the 106gti springs in a silver top, as when i measured some last, there was barely anything between them and the originals. They're stiffer than black top ones though.

higgsy91

I'll be using these in my blacktop. 106gti springs with 2mm super hard steel washers made to spec - 24mm O/D, 20mm I/D. 106gti retainers and blacktop collets.

SBT83

Let me know how it works out!

Wouldn't the price and effort be easier going frs springs though??

higgsy91

Will do! Hopefully there won't be a thread from me saying my springs have snapped and i've destroyed all my valves

Reason i didn't go FRS is because they're too hard to come by on their own.
Just checked ford's price on the springs and at £73.86 per exhaust spring and £22.16 per inlet spring, that gives a total of £768.16 before VAT. All in all then... £921.79 WHAT A DEAL!!!

SBT83

Fookin hell! I wouldn't have asked if I knew they were robbing twats

Mines a blacktop, so I'm interested in the options available. Tbh £250 for DD isn't that bad, it would be nice if they were the same price as silvertop springs tho!

QplateRST!

I ran standard valve springs on my first build at when I tired the boost anything over about 13/14psi I used to I get a horrible misfire and it would hold back changed the valve springs problem solved do it once do it right or learn the hard way ��

higgsy91

Typical Fraud prices! £250 isn't bad at all, but at the time when i was looking for springs i was on a tighter budget. Cat cams sell them cheaper though and pretty sure they're the same thing. I'm looking to run a max of 20psi so this option will be fine for me, the springsa and retainers cost me about £30 all in all and i had a friend at red bull F1 machine me 2mm washers exact to spec.

If that's what standard springs can hold then 106 gti ones should be no problem at 19/20 p.s.i.
But i would always suggets doing it right the first time. Changing 16 valve springs isn't quick or fun.

SBT83

If the 106 springs can hold that much and at that price it's a no brainer! We just need some running examples. I can get spacers machined at work so that's not a problem

higgsy91

I'm sure there was a guy on here running 545bhp on them lol Think his account is banned now though. Sure he was called Rollinz