Diesel techs? PSA/Ford ?
 

Right heres the story (and i'm left scratching my head a little..) i have a customer with a 2.0 tdci ford galaxy dw10 on a 2006 plate, without dpf, with quarter of a million miles. Obviously he's had the usual, clutches & alternators & timing belts but nothing else, (fsh from me, so i know it's never had any other issues, original turbo, injectors, pump etc etc)

Until now, it cut out on the guy and wouldn't re-start, cranks but doesn't start. Went out there to him and it was setting a low pressure code p0087, checked pressure, 120br max - not enough to start.

Checked for blockages, tried remote gravity fed fuel supply direct to the pump and no, still setting low pressure code. checked lives and earths at module all good with low resistance readings, checked for 12v at fuel pressure regulator and metering valves (both on pump) and got 12v present. - Checked wiring back to pcm, all fine.

Soooo now i'm pretty confident it's a pump failure, although in my experience uncommon on this engine but given the mileage it's a fair shout.

I've replaced the pump, bled the system and it still don't run. Further head scratching has resulted in me changing injectors, pump (again), fuel rail with pressure senser and finally pcm. (luckily for me i have my own car which is almost identical which i've robbed for parts..) - And i have it on good authority pumps & injectors aren't coded to the car on this model so can swap bits easily. PCM is another story, but i've got mine coded onto this car now, but alas still a non-runner!

I'm getting maximum 120-130bar rail pressure and at that point it attempts to fire then pressure drops to about 90br and the more you crank it gets down to about 50br, but obviously at those pressures it's not even switching injectors.

Any ideas?

I'm not expecting someone to come along and say "oh yeah check the blue and yellow wire it always breaks" or something as i appreciate it's a complex vehicle but if anyone could could shed ANY light on anything i may have overlooked i'd be most grateful as currently have 2 dead cars in my workshop!!!

The only thing i haven't considered is the camshaft has broken (cam driven fuel pump) and the pump just isnt turning fast enough to build up the correct pressure. But it is producing "some" pressure, just not enough so couldn't have snapped totally. It "runs" of sorts, on easi-start and "sounds" ok when cranking, i.e. it doesn't sound like it's low on compression etc, & if it was it wouldn't be setting a low pressure code & in theory the pump would be turning faster thus producing more pressure?

I'm really out of ideas here chaps!?? :wall:

Do these have a lift pump from the tank at all?

yes mate they do and was going to say the same, we have found (we fix 90% fords ex ford master tec) that if you dont crack bleed the fuel though and use a jump pack it wont start fella as maybe you know ?

Did you do an injector leak test

John

I was 95% sure it doesn't have a pump in the tank? I know the earlier 1.9 vw engine galaxy has a in tank pump but was/am fairly certian the 2.0 tdci doesn't. I will double check tomorrow though. But surely having a fuel can of diesel with a hand primer pump which is cable tied to the bonnet latch striker (gravity fed) pumping fuel directly into the plastic pipe that goes into the pump it would go? & yes i've had jump pack on it.

When you say crack bleed, you mean crack off the injector pipes yeah? - If so, no i haven't done this, i will give it a go tomorrow...

Yes, i forgot to mention that, after about thirty seconds of cranking had about an inch in each of the tubes, all equal. But swapped injectors anyway..

is this the 2 litre peugeot engine?
as found in 407's focus's and late mondeo's etc?
if so then they certainly do have a elec pump in the tank
i work on these engines all the time as they are fitted to a lot of taxi's i look after
and the in tank pump is a common prob(i've replaced loads)
the other big problem with them is the lifters/rocker arms break up
when this happens they ethier jam valve open and make a mess of engine
or fall out in the head and luckily miss everything and just drop the compression
but i dont see why that would cause the low pressure
i would have though that 120 bar would be enough to fire the injectors to start
try giving the tank a bang, sometimes shocks the pump into working for a bit

yer crack start is where you have to start at number one where the cast pipe joins the injector and crack it off while someone starts it, then when you see a bit of fuel tighten then the same for 2 etc etc you sometimes have to do it a few time fella

yeah done it many a time on older diesels but never on common rail. I will try it tomorrow. I'm fairly sure fuel pressure needs to be around 300br to switch the injectors, & yes it is the same as the focus/cmax/407/kuga/c5 and many other vehicles. Whilst i know the french variants have the intank pump i was sure the fords didn't, again i will check this tomorrow!

have u recoded the abs module which holds the pats data, if u touch any big part on them
there go into thief mode and wont do anythink

and the camshaft snaps at the cam pully

the old peugeots hdi's would switch the injectors at anything over 100 bar,
i assumed these would be the same
as you would never get 300 bar at cranking speed on the starter on them
these may well be differant so dont take that as gospel just my thoughts
the peugeot experts/407's and fiat scudo's defo have an elec pump in tank
not 100% sure on that either but dont see why it would be needed in them but not the fords?

Not sure if this is relevant as I can't remember what engine is in it but there's a transit my mate has had in its a 57 plate and DOESN'T have a pump in the tank.

yip, seen that a few times, but thats after what i was saying about a rocker breaking and locking up the top end

transit 2litre is a completely differant engine

Hi mate if its the same engine as what's in the c-max (which I'm sure it is) then the injectors do need coding in as I changed some the other day.
The pump won't need coding but the injectors will.
Also we had a galaxy at work with the same engine that wouldn't start and had injectors fitted found out the injector wires had been fitted to the wrong injector, as cylinder 1+2 injector can fit either way and the same with 3+4.
Just some ideas

If it was immobiliser related it wouldn't crank so don't think its that.

I'll have a look see if the injector plugs are round the wrong way, if it was something mechanical top end, surely it wouldn't run on easi-start? It'd just clatter and make an awful racket?

As for the fuel pressure when cranking, tbh I'm unsure but 100br+ sounds relistic and 120br is when it tries to fire and then pressure drops below 100br and then there's no hope.

Thanks for all the suggestions I'll have a look tomorrow and maybe try swapping some random sensers, cam and crank, although if that was the issue would expect to see a correlation fault code. Before I start stripping it down looking for something mechanical...

Had a similar problem yesterday but with an insignia same type of fault roughly setting the same type of dtc.have you checked the fuel? I found the fuel had something in it.dropped the tank emptied it out clean it ect 20ltrs of fresh diesel in it refitted ect then bled diesel out before the injectors untill i was certain it was the fresh diesel and it started straight away an no faults since.i had done pretty much all the same checks as youve done and this also would run on easy start.

just throwing an idea out there.we see come vehicles with this code.can be waxing of the fuel due to additives used during the winter.might be worth draining and cleaning tank and lines and trying some fresh fuel from a good fuel station :grin:

Well, couldn't find anything wrong so took it apart looking for a fault, the camshaft on these is hollow ( !!!!!!! ) with the fuel pump drive pressed on the end. Only where it's pressed on it had a crack. So it turns fine with the camshaft until it reaches a load of say 100br and then it slips on the camshaft.

New exhaust camshaft installed and she's a runner! Cheers for your help guys!

Well done mate.
Never heard of that before but it's one to keep in mind from now on.
Glad you sorted it in the end!!!!

So, I take it the engine in this Galaxy is not the same as the Mondeo of the same era (mk3)?

We've had this once on a kuga. Technical were certain he'd put petrol in it at some point which seized the pump and snapped the end of the camshaft off. Couldn't proove it so warranty paid.

Bro just had this! Two injectors were down an pump failed.

Correct.

Mondeo mk3 is a puma engine from the transit

Galaxy mk3 is a psa engine as fitted to the 407, c5, smax, mondeo mk4, c-max, 2004 focus, kuga and many many more.

Does anybody know if there is a fuel pump in the tanks on a MK2 kuga TDCI. I have just replaced the fuel pump cleaned out all injectors, rail etc and am having trouble getting in to start. It now just clicks when trying to start and getting error code P162f starter motor disabled, crank time too long

Thanks

Picture of the fuel system (tank side)

These are a fookin nightmare to start. I used a hand pump and put it between the fuel feed pipe and the fuel filter.

Ive had to take the fuel fiter housing off my friends when i changed a alternator on hes and also when i changed her fuel filter.

http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/Fuel-Prime...QAAOSwlRZZzaVf

Something like this.

2013 Kuga (Mk2) Hard start problem after injector cleaning
 

Hello everyone,
I have a 2013 Kuga 2.0 Diesel Engine and having the same problem.(The problem started after injector cleaning, and the engine hard starts first time every morning, not the other startings during the day)
What i have done till now is:

• Checked with IDS and no fault code recorded (neither active nor passive)
• Checked battery (with special tool) OK
• Checked and replaced fuel filter and o-ring.
• Bleed air with hand pump.
• Checked fuse OK (as described in the user manual passenger side fuse box F56 numbered and 20 A)
  • noticed that even the fuse removed engine started???

Any advice will be helpful,
It is so annoying that everyday only first starting become a nightmare

Dunno if the Ford’s are the same
But a lot of cold start issues on the Vauxhall cdti engines is down to lazy starters
If they don’t crank fast enough the ecu won’t let them fire up
:roll: