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Great bit of engineering and engine building!

Old 02-01-2011, 12:25 PM
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Trist
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Default Great bit of engineering and engine building!

copied from a local car forum..

Taken from here
Every now and then I come across something truly impressive. This represents some of the work of Extreme Tuners in Athens, Greece, and the name is no joke. Pushing limits requires funds and skill, and these guys have both. All they do is build and tune engines. The entire lengthy discussion can be found here (http://forums.evolutionm.net/evo-dyn...ne-2007-a.html[/URL]), but unless you feel like reading quite a few pages of posts, I'll post the highlights here.
FWIW, this is some of what they've done:
2006 - N/A ford cosworth 4cylinder 16v engine 119cui: 416hp -11,900rpms
2007 - Ford cosworth 4cylinder 16v Turbo engine 120cui: 1280hp 47psi (custom triple ball bearing 80mm turbo 119lbs/min)
2007 – Mitsubishi Evo 8 4g63 4cylinder 16v Turbo engine: 1416hp – 57psi (custom quad ball bearing 82mm turbo 132lbs/min)
So, getting 700whp/L from 2.0L @ 8500rpm is no small feat, but what do you need if you get bored and want to shoot for 2000whp?

Cast Garrett compressor wheels (right) tend to come apart above 50 psi. CNC billet aluminum wheels (middle) are stronger, but why not be different and use your own CNC billet titanium (left) compressor?


You'll need a turbo big enough for the job, which in this case is a 108mm twinscroll T4 turbo, with custom quad ball bearing CHRA and 100psi capability.





To get enough airflow at 12,000rpm(!) to get the job done, you'll need a skillfully ported head, complete with titanium valves and copper-beryllium valve seats:





And you're going to need a set of camshafts to handle the rpm and withstand tremendous ramp pressures, so why not a set of hollow titanium billets with DLC at only 234 grams each?


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Old 02-01-2011, 12:48 PM
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Some serious kit there!!!
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Old 02-01-2011, 12:59 PM
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Yeah thats some serious kit with a bet a very serious pricetag.
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Old 02-01-2011, 01:02 PM
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wow that is some serious power from a 4 pot motor ,i bet the titanium bits cost a small fortune .i would love to see the prices .
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Old 02-01-2011, 01:04 PM
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Truly awesome work there!!!
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Old 02-01-2011, 01:12 PM
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I know of one well known Subaru tuner who is building an engine on a par with this for Time Attack next year

Development is king at the moment, why stand still...
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Old 02-01-2011, 02:38 PM
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Since some of you are wondering what this costs, I know the Ti rods are around $3250 each, and the Ti crank is around $31,000. They are now working on a CNC billet cylinder head and carbon fiber turbine housings. These guys have good connections with F1 parts fabricators.


have you seen the rest of the pics?
billet block, multiplate clutch smaller than the cam pulleys/iphone
9000cc injectors
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Old 02-01-2011, 02:47 PM
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holy fuck!!!! now thats a big turbo. very impressive stuff
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Old 02-01-2011, 02:52 PM
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Shit the bed.

Thats some SERIOUS work !



Immense
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Old 02-01-2011, 02:57 PM
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awesome stuff
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Old 02-01-2011, 03:20 PM
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anyone got a link to there other threads pics ,

top link didnt work trist ??
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Old 02-01-2011, 03:30 PM
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Fair play lots of work and money gone into this, but was the graph for this not posted and it made the square root of fuck all in terms of power until like 9-9.5k then it spooled and was all over by 11k. Apologies if I am thinking of wrong one.

Seem to be a suspicious amount of Greek cars making well clear of 1k hp too......
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Old 02-01-2011, 03:33 PM
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Originally Posted by bigchez View Post
Fair play lots of work and money gone into this, but was the graph for this not posted and it made the square root of fuck all in terms of power until like 9-9.5k then it spooled and was all over by 11k. Apologies if I am thinking of wrong one.

Seem to be a suspicious amount of Greek cars making well clear of 1k hp too......
They are drag engines though, don't run normal fuels or anything like that.

I think the key is for it to hold together for about 8 seconds, I very much doubt these are street engines
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Old 02-01-2011, 03:33 PM
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Originally Posted by -beefy- View Post
anyone got a link to there other threads pics ,

top link didnt work trist ??
http://forums.evolutionm.net/evo-dyn...ne-2007-a.html
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Old 02-01-2011, 03:40 PM
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that is beautiful work...
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Old 02-01-2011, 03:45 PM
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Originally Posted by JonnyBravo View Post
They are drag engines though, don't run normal fuels or anything like that.

I think the key is for it to hold together for about 8 seconds, I very much doubt these are street engines
Their own video would say otherwise - what's the title?

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QgGyntrhs9I

Not knocking them as I sure as hell couldn't build anything ike it, but prior to seeing pics of the block etc, it seemed to be a case of strapping the biggest turbo possible to to the engine but if it does the job good on them.
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Old 02-01-2011, 04:13 PM
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I posted up some piccies and graphs of the 400bhp n/a cossie engine a few years back as someone was telling me it was impossible to get over 300bhp lol

Its in a mk1/2 escort if i remember rightly
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Old 02-01-2011, 04:15 PM
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In fact i still have them

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Old 02-01-2011, 05:08 PM
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That is a interesting thread on the evoforum!

And again the question comes into my head..why do they run such a high comp ratio 9.1 and way above (with good results), where our yb`s running low comp?!?
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Old 02-01-2011, 05:11 PM
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Originally Posted by MannheimAlex View Post
That is a interesting thread on the evoforum!

And again the question comes into my head..why do they run such a high comp ratio 9.1 and way above (with good results), where our yb`s running low comp?!?
Because they are revving higher.
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Old 02-01-2011, 05:16 PM
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That can`t be the only reason, as some of those rev not that much higher?!?
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Old 02-01-2011, 05:22 PM
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Originally Posted by MannheimAlex View Post
That can`t be the only reason, as some of those rev not that much higher?!?
Getting the correct compression needs to take lots of things into account, including:
piston speeds (combination of geometry and engine speed)
fuel type (102 ron wants higher CR than 95 etc)
boost
cam profiles


But in the case of the YB specifically, its the way that it makes massive midrange torque and lower power output (ie its not a natural revver) than tends to lend itself ok to lower CR
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Old 02-01-2011, 05:27 PM
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Stuff of dreams and big money F1 price tags all the way
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Old 02-01-2011, 05:31 PM
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But only at running a good amount of boost, whereas them higher cr. engines need a lot less boost to get the similar figures.
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Old 02-01-2011, 05:31 PM
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1360bhp


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Old 02-01-2011, 05:44 PM
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Saw these on the thread also
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Old 02-01-2011, 05:45 PM
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Bugger someone beat me to it
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Old 02-01-2011, 06:07 PM
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there so good we should view them twice!!
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Old 02-01-2011, 06:26 PM
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Last week I dyno another 2ltr engine 16v cosworth with almost same combo, we didn’t use methanol and we had with q16 1035hp crank at peak 29psi. This week we will use methanol to this setup and boost it till finish the turbo.
back in june, so comparable more to uk setups since that wasnt on meth
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Old 02-01-2011, 07:08 PM
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Originally Posted by Will Pedley View Post
I know of one well known Subaru tuner who is building an engine on a par with this for Time Attack next year

Development is king at the moment, why stand still...
Would I be right in thinking that is the Roger Clarke guys?

Would like to see them putting the same sort of pictures up as this build.
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Old 02-01-2011, 07:35 PM
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there is a lot of threads on different forums over the years from this guy all claiming the same things...highest horse power etc. who pays for all the fancy bits beryillum pistons ...those rods wouldnt fit in an evo engine.....titanium crankshaft is bollocks too....f1 still use a steel crank!!! and time on all these builds...what about blow ups??..you'd be talking over hundred thousand on this evo engine alone.... read through it and he doesnt answer questions asked if the poster seems to know his stuff.....then after a while disappears from thread.and all these engines are in greece....hardly any prices discussed....a lot of bullshit me thinks.i dont doubt they do good power but not what he claims.
1360 bhp cossie engine...really.......why do we have so much trouble getting to 800bhp??
the 412bhp N/A cossie...and only 200 lb torque.....cossie engines do not rev like that
claims a 1500 bhp 8 valve volkswagen engine too somewhere.

Last edited by dug112y; 02-01-2011 at 07:41 PM.
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Old 02-01-2011, 07:51 PM
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Very impressive looking engines and parts, if the claimed figures are true it's simply amazing!
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Old 02-01-2011, 07:56 PM
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Originally Posted by dug112y View Post
the 412bhp N/A cossie...and only 200 lb torque.....cossie engines do not rev like that
.
Whats the problem with the torque? Ever seen an F1 engine?

As for the rpm.........its modified
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Old 02-01-2011, 08:10 PM
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Originally Posted by It's Czech Mate View Post
Whats the problem with the torque? Ever seen an F1 engine?

As for the rpm.........its modified
yes exactly..about 200lb...with all their technology.
is it really modified?? and here is me thinking its bog standard!!!!! some of the 90's f1 engines were only doing 12500rpm and this guy has a cossie engine nearly doing it??
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Old 02-01-2011, 09:00 PM
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how else do you think hes gonna get alot of power out of an N/A engine unless he revs it hard.

what were you expecting, it also to push out 350lbs of torque!!

f1 engines only produce 250lbs of torque but 750bhp.....god they must be slow!

hes not gonna be running the same rod to piston ratio, it even mentions i think the overall cubic capacity is slightly less than a stock one.

also hes running 3bar of boost on a GT45, what sort out power did you expect him to come out with, methanol isnt like 109ron fuel we run over here
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Old 02-01-2011, 10:05 PM
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I'll sum up and say HOLY SHIT!!!
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Old 02-01-2011, 10:45 PM
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Originally Posted by dug112y View Post
yes exactly..about 200lb...with all their technology.
is it really modified?? and here is me thinking its bog standard!!!!! some of the 90's f1 engines were only doing 12500rpm and this guy has a cossie engine nearly doing it??
Nearly doing it? Are you mad?

Wake up pal, f1 engines will do nearly twice the power and twice the revs ( they are all developed from engines that did ove 20krpm before the tech freeze )

So this guy is nowhere near.


As for doing 11k rpm...a stock honda that meets emissions laws in the uk can rev to 9k prm so another 2k rpm with a lot of cash thrown at it isnt exactly mind bendingly impossible now is it?
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Old 02-01-2011, 10:49 PM
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You seem to be missing the point that dug is making based on the lower end of 90s F1 engines which is vaguely comparable technology, not on modern ones with have utterly nothing in common with a YB, they dont even run valve springs for example and their tolerances are so close they cant be run without preheating them to the correct temperature.

Anyway, such arguments are pointless, im sure a lot of the parts made for this engine are pointlessly overspecced or possibly even miss specced, but its an interesting build none the less and if I ever win the lottery i'll probably be doing similar with a "everything I can think of" type build as well, such things are no doubt enjoyable if you have the resources even if some aspects of the build arent actually pointfull.
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Old 02-01-2011, 10:59 PM
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Originally Posted by Chip View Post
You seem to be missing the point that dug is making based on the lower end of 90s F1 engines which is vaguely comparable technology, not on modern ones with have utterly nothing in common with a YB, they dont even run valve springs for example and their tolerances are so close they cant be run without preheating them to the correct temperature.

Anyway, such arguments are pointless, im sure a lot of the parts made for this engine are pointlessly overspecced or possibly even miss specced, but its an interesting build none the less and if I ever win the lottery i'll probably be doing similar with a "everything I can think of" type build as well, such things are no doubt enjoyable if you have the resources even if some aspects of the build arent actually pointfull.
He's missing my point that a stock honda 4pot can rev to 9krpm so it shouldnt be unconceivable that an engine with a lot of cash thrown at it cant rev a bit more.

After all BDA's in race trim often rev above ten grand, and they're prehistoric!


I know a litte about f1 engines and their pneumatic 'valves', tolerances and heat cycles, I was merely pointing out power outputs

And a 1994 engine is in now way comparable tech to that cossie, also they used much more hi tech exotic materials than they are allowed to now. No berylium alloys these days, just the latest MMC's

I had a bike made from MMC in 1994

Anyway, i'm glad we agree argueing is pointless and that the cossie power output it feasible

Last edited by It's Czech Mate; 02-01-2011 at 11:15 PM.
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Old 02-01-2011, 11:12 PM
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Love the picture that shows the turbo adjacent the fly wheel, the turbo is the same diameter PMSL!!
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