fao builders
 

i'm currently renovating my house and after moving walls around etc have created a space big enough for a downstairs bathroom. my upstairs bathroom is above the kitchen of which the soil pipe ran up in a boxed unit in the corner of both rooms!!! i have now run the pipe out the kitchen wall and up the outside of the house thus creating square rooms :).
however how would i put a downstairs toilet in with a near on horizontal waste? is there a flush unit of some sort? the distance the waste pipe would run is max 4m
plus how would i go about the legalities, would i need both planning and building control or just building control? it runs o the kiychen so would there have to be more than 1 door between them? thanks in advance

as long as it runs downwards, even if it's only a small amount, it hsoul dbe ok

at work we've got the osil pipe running virtually parrelel to the floor, it's got about a 2 inch drop over it's length of about 3 metres so that should give you a rough idea, not sure how legal they are supposed to be but it was there when we were inspected and it's passed

so it'll work fine with a macerator, just don't think itll work that well just relying on gravity
cheers guys
now just the legal side

afaik you wont need any permission of any sort unless you are cutting a new window in that will overlook your neighbours etc, but then that shouldnt cause a problem as it will be frosted anyways!

25mm per meter minimum fall (1in40)

yes you will need an anti-space between kitchen and bathroom i'e your 2 door theory but as above on all the rest, but the anti-space is more to do with when you come to sell than while you live there as unless you get grassed up no one will know about your toilet

i wouldn't use a maceiator myself just my preference really, why don't you sink the connection into the ground so you have the correct fall ;), depends on the soil pipes direction but anything is possible with the right bends, stops any issues happening with the maciator and keep an original look.

the thing is i started the renovation before i found out that i'm emmergrating, so am wanting to do this to help with the sale of the house, however not really wanting to bury the pipe as 1) time constrates and 2) it'll mean digging up near on 4m worth of concrete!! plus the macerator will be hidden away but easily accessable,

is it worth calling the council tomorrow to ask whether i need permission/ 2 door theory or kept it quiet ;)

Nah, regs state that a space containing a closet should be separated by a door from a space used for the preparation of food, double door theory is preference only. Also of course it must have its own sink.

Aaaahh! i see i just made a conclusion that as you was knocking down walls and such like you was doing a full resto on the house without time restrictions, well with your preferences then yes a maciator is a good idea but don't forget you only need 4" in height to get the correct minimum fall so depending on your floor height and how low to the ground you could get the t-piece to connect to the existing soil pipe then it could be do able, and don't forget it won't exit the toilet pan at floor level as it's raised slightly for the u-bend.

as for legality's i'm not up to scratch anymore as it's been a long time since i'v done some proper house bashing, i'm sure some searching on the net will bring up some info aswel as some of the people on here more upto scratch with the new reg's and what you can get away with ;).

Theres 140mm of fall right away from pan to floor yes, but its hiding the soilpipe thats the problem. A saniflo will send it through a easliy hidden behind units 40mm waste pipe.
Unless im reading it wrong of course and he has room for a soil.

yeah hiding the soil pipe is no problem as i currently have no kitchen i will take some pics and upload them probably be easier

i thought he's now run the soil pipe coming from upstairs along the outside of the house, so could just run the new soil pipe outside to connect up with it also, or have i also read it wrong :cry: we'r not doing very well here are we :cry:, thinking about it if he has moved it from inside to outside then it still prob's goes into the ground inside the house, just depends on where he can get it connected and what access he has i suppose.

but yes in a way the sani flows are a good way of getting rid of waste in problem areas where you have space issues and such like i fully agree with you there, i just don't like the fact that if they go wrong they can be a pain in the arse and expensive and from what my mate used to tell me they can be prone to blocking, but this is a while back and haven't gone into this in a while so things could have gotten better with these sani flow units.

some pics to help hopefully lol
first pic is of the kitchen with the soil pipe in the r/h/s corner with the new closet door lining on the l/h/s

end of kitchen wall 2.7m wide
http://i661.photobucket.com/albums/u...1MDMtMjAyO.jpg

soil pipe
http://i661.photobucket.com/albums/u...1MDMtMjAyO.jpg

old hallway
http://i661.photobucket.com/albums/u...1MDMtMjAyO.jpg

new closet
http://i661.photobucket.com/albums/u...1MDMtMjAyO.jpg

looking at that mate the easiest and quickest way would be the saniflow like lee has suggested, take out that bottom bit of soil pipe, it looks like an access plug or something similar and put in a branch or strap on boss that'll take the 40mm from the saniflow, you could do it in 4" along that back wall but its got a good chance to make fitting your new units a mare, and as above don't forget a whb and run the saniflow waste on its own, don't branch anything into it lol

cheers chrisp thats what i was thinking, just needed that verified, oh and fitting the units wont be a problem as we're custom building the units so can easily work around it
however rang the council and made an enquiry (without my name or address ;) ) and seems that i will need building regs, bugger!

yea as chrisp says really you could do it in 4" but it'd involve some messing around, and as you just want finnished and rid then it's your only good option.

Only one door is required now by building regulations. It used to be two doors.
As long as you have a wash hand basin within the room, one door is ok.

id have removed a little around your floor and add a 100mm tee junction so its low enough for you toilet. Easy job, but then again i do a lot of this work.

Sod the saniflow.
Council will always say that to take the fee off you.
just make sure you also have an electric fan vented to the outside. Then you have made it comply with regs.

was told this the other day, something to do with bathrooms in flats etc, that would certainly free up more space, however the building regs bit has pissed me off, was hoping to just do it without having to give the council MORE money!!!

first bit, do you mean dig around the soil pipe where it goes into the concrete floor in the kitchen thus havind a better draining angle? plus would it work ok without a saniflow with there being a 90'' bend just after the toilet?

second bit, could i just do it without the building regs, put a door in, and a electric vent, and still be able to sell the house?

i think he means put a branch in the soil an keep the run along the wall as low as possible, starting floor level, looks like that would be a fook on as well as the drain collar is just above floor level so you'd probably need to pull that out to go lower down.
if you could do that, the majority of units are 6" off the floor( plinth height) so you could possibly squeeze the pipe under that without bringing the backs of your units forward,
as i said behind above the units would be a clart, if you're building them yourselves you'd still need an 100mm void down the backs which wouldn't leave much inside cupboard space if you're using 600/620 worktops, you could do breakfast bar cut down but its just getting deeper and deeper and more and more work, quicker easier probably cheaper with the saniflow.

saniflow fits straight to back toilet were panconnector would go,can have sink going in to side of unit also,you need 22mm copper pipe out the top saniflow but must not use
elbows have bend the pipe