FAO Stu MSD.. RE Closed Loop fuelling
11-01-2005, 10:57 PM
#41
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Originally Posted by Rs Gus
well mate i used £20 in 30 mins max the other week did apx 40 miles MAX
12-01-2005, 09:22 AM
#43
Originally Posted by Sonic
Sat at an average of approx 65( never below 60 and never above 70), on a very windy carrigeway it managed 94 miles!!,
Ive been to Singleton service station this morning and put £10 of Optimax in just to get an accurate reciept for your fuel so we can work it backwards
£10 of Optimax = 12.06litres.
12.06 litres / 4.55 = 2.650 Gallons for £10
94miles / 2.650 gallons of fuel = 35.47MPG
So your car under my new closed loop software, cruising around 65mpg does 35.5MPG Pal
Thanks for doin that test mate, its much appreciated feedback on my new system
12-01-2005, 09:45 AM
#45
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This sounds Unreal, is this only only possible with cossie's, or can the system be untilised on a Cossie managed RST or is it a Pectel thing, i don't really understand any advise appreciated from Stu @ MSD as im saving for Mapping at the Mo
CheeRS
Ade
CheeRS
Ade
12-01-2005, 04:37 PM
#54
Originally Posted by Stu @ M Developments
This system of ours can be fitted to anything with a Weber Marelli L8 Ecu pal.
If you have any specific questions, please feel free to ask
Its also fully featured in this months Performance Ford if you dont yet have it
If you have any specific questions, please feel free to ask
Its also fully featured in this months Performance Ford if you dont yet have it
12-01-2005, 05:01 PM
#60
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one thing i couldnt quite convice myself of in the aticle if PF, do you NEED to use a new bosch lambda probe - is it a wider band probe or something than the one in the turbo on an escos? can this one not be utilised?
12-01-2005, 05:06 PM
#61
i think the problem with the lambda probes m8 is that with age goes calibration , the older they get the worse they are , and not only that if youve been unfortunate enough to have a conversion that just fooks loads a fuel down your eggroast then its prob on its way to being fooked anyway
hence , fit new , know its good
hence , fit new , know its good
12-01-2005, 05:20 PM
#63
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also , does a p8 with pectel like a AB one for example not use closed loop (i read above somewhere - using the issue 3 boards..? - does the pectel software not support it at all?)
12-01-2005, 05:31 PM
#64
Eagle,
how much ???
how much ???
Approximate price guide as follows:
£250 for stage 2** closed loop chip.
£665 for stage 2** kit fully fitted to a car with lambda already installed.
Lambda boss fitting: (Including SS boss) £40
Bosch Lambda sensor £80
Wiring up lambda heaters and signal wiring to ECU plug £50
Providing you dont need any parts or anything, then that should cover it. DIY kits are now available with fitting instructions for stage 2 closed loop conversions.
**our stage 2 is 803s, 3bar etc. Often known as a 330kit or stage 3.
B19 LBP,
will the closed loop work on a p8 ecu??
will the closed loop work on a p8 ecu??
B19 LBP,
i have a pectel anti lag b/b that i want to fit, will this ruin it????
i have a pectel anti lag b/b that i want to fit, will this ruin it????
A) Ive never tried to sort one because;
B) The ALS will kill teh sensor in 60seconds..lol
Sorry
slowpoke,
hopefully very very soon i will be having this done
as soon as i get that fucking stupid black hose of the flame trap
hopefully very very soon i will be having this done
as soon as i get that fucking stupid black hose of the flame trap
markk,
what time do you want me there m8 ???
what time do you want me there m8 ???
Dave Henshall,
one thing i couldnt quite convice myself of in the aticle if PF, do you NEED to use a new bosch lambda probe - is it a wider band probe or something than the one in the turbo on an escos? can this one not be utilised?
one thing i couldnt quite convice myself of in the aticle if PF, do you NEED to use a new bosch lambda probe - is it a wider band probe or something than the one in the turbo on an escos? can this one not be utilised?
This could deffo have been clearer but Nick quite simply didnt have the space available to publish more, so we did our best to get the interesting stuff in
The lambda some cosworths have as std is FINE and is my preffered choice. I keep these in stock at all times. However, due to their incredible cost new (£185) i sourced an alternative for folks who needed to install the full lambda system, these are a good Bosch unit, stable with temperature and less than half the price. Both options are std narrowband and will work just fine.
Hope that clears the confusion.
12-01-2005, 06:48 PM
#68
Originally Posted by Sonic
Stu, wishing on a star i know, but is there gonna be a day when closed loop runs across all rev and boost ranges?.............please
NOPE because if the sensor goes down BOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOM
fucked engine
so off boost areas only as far as i know and flat throttle areas up to 4psi and less than 60% rapdi throttle movement
12-01-2005, 07:26 PM
#69
Originally Posted by Sonic
Stu, wishing on a star i know, but is there gonna be a day when closed loop runs across all rev and boost ranges?.............please
I could enable that for you right now mate, but the problem is, if the sensor decides to read richer than it is, the ecu will lean off the fuelling to try and hit the targets its been given and then disaster will strike in the form of a dead engine
As it is, its enabled under all low power areas, up to and including light boost, as in this area, if you have mixture problems they just translate to poor running, not catastrophic engine failure.
Hope this helps.
13-01-2005, 07:02 PM
#72
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Stu, additionally the standard sensor is only good to measure AFR 14.7:1, so will be well out of range at the 12:1 or so needed under boost conditions, yeah? A wideband sensor is required to maintain closed-loop at low (rich) on-boost AFR's ?
13-01-2005, 07:30 PM
#73
Correct Rich,
As i stated directly above your post, there are bandwidth issues too.
Standard sensor seems accurate to measure between 14.0 and 15.5:1 it seems to me, but the leanest i run is 15:1 so thats just fine and dandy
As you say, over and above this mixture the sensor would really be guessing its just >14.0 but the fact still remains that even with wideband id still not run it closed loop due to the possibility of sensor error/failure.
One of the other issues is at prolonged periods of time on boost, the sensor cal seems to change on a narrowband and the more heatsoak it gets over 700degrees the richer it reads. This isnt a massive error, but again, its enough for me not to trust the damn things
As i stated directly above your post, there are bandwidth issues too.
Standard sensor seems accurate to measure between 14.0 and 15.5:1 it seems to me, but the leanest i run is 15:1 so thats just fine and dandy
As you say, over and above this mixture the sensor would really be guessing its just >14.0 but the fact still remains that even with wideband id still not run it closed loop due to the possibility of sensor error/failure.
One of the other issues is at prolonged periods of time on boost, the sensor cal seems to change on a narrowband and the more heatsoak it gets over 700degrees the richer it reads. This isnt a massive error, but again, its enough for me not to trust the damn things
16-01-2005, 01:30 PM
#78
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Originally Posted by Gaaables
so is mpg the only advantage of closed loop?
The other may be no left overs from rich fueled combustion staying inside engine and exhaust, and much less fuel in oil.
16-01-2005, 01:37 PM
#79
Gaaables,
no mate it is not!
my car starts so much better cold never have to touch throttle and it sits at slightlky raised idle until warm, no hunting or revving it drives sooooooooooo much better than a non lamba controlled cossie off boost and it is so smooth to drive it returns fabulous mpg on greys and is generaly soo much cleaner running it also passed a post 92 cat MOT test without a cat it also idles very well indeed with less than 0.5%CO you would have to get it done and try it for your selves really it is brilliant what more can be said apart from a BIG THANKS TO STU FOR DOING IT 
so is mpg the only advantage of closed loop?
no mate it is not!
my car starts so much better cold never have to touch throttle and it sits at slightlky raised idle until warm, no hunting or revving it drives sooooooooooo much better than a non lamba controlled cossie off boost and it is so smooth to drive it returns fabulous mpg on greys
and is generaly soo much cleaner running it also passed a post 92 cat MOT test without a cat it also idles very well indeed with less than 0.5%CO you would have to get it done and try it for your selves really it is brilliant what more can be said apart from a BIG THANKS TO STU FOR DOING IT
16-01-2005, 01:38 PM
#80
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Originally Posted by Sonic
Well that was the most boring thing ive ever done!
Trip light came on , put a tenner in and jumped on the motorway......dont ask me why, it just seemed like a good idea at the time
, however, the results were satisfying.Sat at an average of approx 65( never below 60 and never above 70), on a very windy carrigeway it managed 94 miles!!, (not a hundered i know Stu but damn close!), until the trip light came on again.So not so bad, now all thats needed is a chip for the human brain to make this enjoyable! although i am looking forward to the savings once summer is upon us and its travel time, 
.
Right, guess its time to see how much fuel i can use in 94 miles now to even out my sanity!!
Many thanks for the sig Stu , and the person you must have got to help you! , it looks brilliant pal
Trip light came on , put a tenner in and jumped on the motorway......dont ask me why, it just seemed like a good idea at the time
, however, the results were satisfying.Sat at an average of approx 65( never below 60 and never above 70), on a very windy carrigeway it managed 94 miles!!, (not a hundered i know Stu but damn close!), until the trip light came on again.So not so bad, now all thats needed is a chip for the human brain to make this enjoyable! although i am looking forward to the savings once summer is upon us and its travel time, .Right, guess its time to see how much fuel i can use in 94 miles now to even out my sanity!!
Many thanks for the sig Stu , and the person you must have got to help you! , it looks brilliant pal
how much to get this kinda set up on my saf stu?
t34 greens low comp 500 cooler etc?
cheers