Porsche 996 turbos?
22-12-2009, 09:33 AM
#41
I would like to try a 996 TT with 500-600bhp as i could see it as a possible replacement for my CSL.
i agree that they are fantastic value at the minute.
Anybody know what the tiptronic gearbox is like on them?
i agree that they are fantastic value at the minute.
Anybody know what the tiptronic gearbox is like on them?
22-12-2009, 09:37 AM
#42
If you're still into track days, I'd either keep the CSL or spend some more money and go for the GT3....
The Tiptronic is shit on all the Porsches until you get to the latest dual clutch cars (2009 onwards).
Has the CSL made your left foot whither into a stick?
When are you thinking of selling the CSL and what sort of money do you value it at?
22-12-2009, 10:10 AM
#43
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personally I would NEVER have a Tiptronic and I used to want to blow up all 911's with them.....
BUT I have kinda mellowed a bit in my old age... and if you do alot of town driving and are not into track days or really 'into' your driving then the Tiptronic is actually ok.
alot of 911 Turbos were bought by people who don't do trackdays and aren't crazy petrol heads like us. They just wanted something that looks good and is fast and easy to drive around town as they are used as everyday cars alot. Hence ALOT of tips were sold.
Its an AUTO box though... not an automated manual like you are used to in the CSL.
Personally I think that if you bought a CSL then you are not the type of person that will like a Tip!!!
try and test drive one... with a remap and running 1.3bar, the sheer grunt of a 996 Turbo will make your CSL feel very very gutless after. They make almost 500lbft of Torque from 2000rpm.
Mike. The reason my car was such a nightmare at Donno was the utterly shite and shot tyres. on R888's and the Michelins that are now on it. Its VERY different car....
BUT I have kinda mellowed a bit in my old age... and if you do alot of town driving and are not into track days or really 'into' your driving then the Tiptronic is actually ok.
alot of 911 Turbos were bought by people who don't do trackdays and aren't crazy petrol heads like us. They just wanted something that looks good and is fast and easy to drive around town as they are used as everyday cars alot. Hence ALOT of tips were sold.
Its an AUTO box though... not an automated manual like you are used to in the CSL.
Personally I think that if you bought a CSL then you are not the type of person that will like a Tip!!!
try and test drive one... with a remap and running 1.3bar, the sheer grunt of a 996 Turbo will make your CSL feel very very gutless after. They make almost 500lbft of Torque from 2000rpm.
Mike. The reason my car was such a nightmare at Donno was the utterly shite and shot tyres. on R888's and the Michelins that are now on it. Its VERY different car....
22-12-2009, 10:16 AM
#44
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only in YOUR opinion!!! never heard anyone else say that!
and its certainly slower in a straight line!!!!!
Rocket Ronnies mk1 did 180mph at BRUNTERS!!!!!! thats FAST.
I REALLY like CSL's though. Amazing all round cars.
22-12-2009, 10:55 AM
#45
Lee what tyres are you running on your 19's now ? I changed mine recently and made a big difference to the handling im now on PS2's 315/25 rears and 235/35 fronts, the change from a 305/30 rear stopped the traction control kicking in at weird times due to the missmatch in sizes.
Last edited by NEIL A; 22-12-2009 at 11:21 AM.
22-12-2009, 11:53 AM
#46
). The CSL does a 7.50, the GT3 MkI only an 8.03 (identical drivers) 
. That is a huge difference - even the 996 GT3 RS only manages 3s faster than the CSL and the 996 Turbo is 6s slower and even the 997 is 4s slower .The CSL is truelly a GREAT car to be THAT fast (IMO)
.
22-12-2009, 12:02 PM
#48
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Check out the Ring times - I'm talking about where it matters (to me ). The CSL does a 7.50, the GT3 MkI only an 8.03 (identical drivers) . That is a huge difference - even the 996 GT3 RS only manages 3s faster than the CSL and the 996 Turbo is 6s slower and even the 997 is 4s slower .
The CSL is truelly a GREAT car to be THAT fast (IMO).
). The CSL does a 7.50, the GT3 MkI only an 8.03 (identical drivers) . That is a huge difference - even the 996 GT3 RS only manages 3s faster than the CSL and the 996 Turbo is 6s slower and even the 997 is 4s slower .The CSL is truelly a GREAT car to be THAT fast (IMO)
.Ringtimes my assssss... (that CSL time has always seemed far too good to me by the way) stick the same Cup tyres on the GT3 and the Turbo and retest
http://www.evo.co.uk/features/featur...vers_cars.html
mk1 GT3... 3rd greatest drivers car of all time!
I am not trying to slag the CSL at all. I LOVE THEM!
Neil. Michelin pilot sport 2's..... awesome all rounder in my experience. I was briefly running R888's on the Techarts but the ride was horrific!!!! It was ok on the 18' R888's though.
Originally Posted by flemke
Normally the Nordschleife "reference" times that have been put on the public record were all done by Horst von Saurma for Sport Auto magazine. He is not as quick as Rohrl or a professional racer, who would be - at a guess - eight to ten seconds faster. On the other hand, the industry times exclude a bit of the circuit at T13, which reduces the lap time by about three seconds.
Sport Auto normally will use cars as supplied by the factory unless none is made available. There is a view that the factories sometimes send out cars that are a bit special. :scratchchin:
CSLs came straight from the factory with Cup tyres (for qualified customers). Porsches usually come with Pilot Sports, but the RS sometimes came with Corsas, including the car that did the 7:47 at the 'ring. There is not much difference between a Cup and a Corsa, whereas the Pilot Sport would be 10 sec/lap slower.
Even with the same driver, lap times at the 'ring will vary by 10 sec depending on air temp, surface temp, etc. You should therefore not place too much emphasis on a car's lap time there.
Sport Auto normally will use cars as supplied by the factory unless none is made available. There is a view that the factories sometimes send out cars that are a bit special. :scratchchin:
CSLs came straight from the factory with Cup tyres (for qualified customers). Porsches usually come with Pilot Sports, but the RS sometimes came with Corsas, including the car that did the 7:47 at the 'ring. There is not much difference between a Cup and a Corsa, whereas the Pilot Sport would be 10 sec/lap slower.
Even with the same driver, lap times at the 'ring will vary by 10 sec depending on air temp, surface temp, etc. You should therefore not place too much emphasis on a car's lap time there.
Last edited by Porkie; 22-12-2009 at 12:08 PM.
22-12-2009, 12:06 PM
#49
Amazes me that Mike doesnt notice the CSL tyres having such a big impact on its ring times, seems pointless to compare one car on proper trackday rubber with another on road tyres.
I still think the CSL is an awesome car, but think like Lee that its ring time doesnt really represent its performance compared to other cars due to the rubber difference.
I still think the CSL is an awesome car, but think like Lee that its ring time doesnt really represent its performance compared to other cars due to the rubber difference.
22-12-2009, 12:12 PM
#50
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I turn that off on track now.... does proper power slides!
thats some proper fat rubber on the rear now Neil
315 
22-12-2009, 12:20 PM
#51
I'm just comparing how they came from the factory . Now given that the 996 GT3 RS comes with some pretty good tyres (albeit still not quite up to M-cup standards), and the fact that there is only 3s in it, shows to me how special the CSLs chassis is to almost match a car with similar weight, but more power....
The fact that the CSL comes with 4 (proper) seats and can be bought for Ł25k is enough to seal the deal for me.....
As much as I like Porsches, I would prefer to spend the Ł10k saved in buying the 996 TT on making the CSL even faster. IMO for track work, a 996 TT would be a backward step, but as an everyday road car, I would however pick the 996, as it will do big mileage and look factory fresh.
It just depends what you want at the end of the day.
. Now given that the 996 GT3 RS comes with some pretty good tyres (albeit still not quite up to M-cup standards), and the fact that there is only 3s in it, shows to me how special the CSLs chassis is to almost match a car with similar weight, but more power....The fact that the CSL comes with 4 (proper) seats and can be bought for Ł25k is enough to seal the deal for me....
.As much as I like Porsches, I would prefer to spend the Ł10k saved in buying the 996 TT on making the CSL even faster
. IMO for track work, a 996 TT would be a backward step, but as an everyday road car, I would however pick the 996, as it will do big mileage and look factory fresh. It just depends what you want at the end of the day
.
22-12-2009, 12:23 PM
#52
.I remember now you did warn me about it doing funny things - shame you didn't turn it off for me then
.Defo sounds like a another drive is due - alternatively, I'll give you Ł15k for it right now given the abuse it has had
.
Last edited by Mike Rainbird; 22-12-2009 at 12:24 PM.
22-12-2009, 12:28 PM
#53
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Your next drive is gonna be of the Westy.... and you will get a thorough debrief with data logging analysis and video overlay with GPS.
So I can show you where I was that little bit faster than you
So I can show you where I was that little bit faster than you
22-12-2009, 12:34 PM
#54
- rest assured it would be garaged for that period - although I might forget to give it back .
22-12-2009, 06:36 PM
#57
http://www.fastestlaps.com/index.php...=45ca55316856e
http://www.fastestlaps.com/index.php...=45af633578015
http://www.fastestlaps.com/index.php...=45af6445ed554
didn't realise the CSL was so quick
http://www.fastestlaps.com/index.php...=45af633578015
http://www.fastestlaps.com/index.php...=45af6445ed554
didn't realise the CSL was so quick
Last edited by danneth; 22-12-2009 at 06:37 PM.
22-12-2009, 06:38 PM
#58
just finding my feet
tiptronic boxes need the internal filter changing aswell as the general service if you did go for one
22-12-2009, 09:27 PM
#59
Prokie i actualy have more clearance at the back with the 315's , no rubbing at all and that is at GT2 heights and camber settings. I ended up having to fit adjustable top arms to dial out the camber on the back past 2.5 deg.
https://passionford.com/forum/pictur...rge-tyres.html
Last edited by NEIL A; 22-12-2009 at 09:45 PM.
23-12-2009, 08:55 AM
#62
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1. The standard 4 pot 'big reds' are on the limit in a car as heavy and powerful as a modded 996
2. You will pay almost NO extra for PCCB's on a used Porsche.
3. They are ALOT lighter... less unsprung weight means better handling
4. its VERY easy and VERY cheap to put either standard 997 Turbo steel discs in the 6 pots Calipers if you want to not risk the carbons.
5. get a seperate Alcon disc and bell set up for the bigger calipers (I can go through a set of standard 997 steel discs IN ONE TRACK DAY!)
6. They calipers look FAR better in yellow and are off course BIGGER with 2 more pots!!
so why NOT have them???
MUPPETS!
Last edited by Porkie; 23-12-2009 at 08:57 AM.
23-12-2009, 09:07 AM
#63
spot the two blokes that don't own Porsches though....
1. The standard 4 pot 'big reds' are on the limit in a car as heavy and powerful as a modded 996
2. You will pay almost NO extra for PCCB's on a used Porsche.
3. They are ALOT lighter... less unsprung weight means better handling
4. its VERY easy and VERY cheap to put either standard 997 Turbo steel discs in the 6 pots Calipers if you want to not risk the carbons.
5. get a seperate Alcon disc and bell set up for the bigger calipers (I can go through a set of standard 997 steel discs IN ONE TRACK DAY!)
6. They calipers look FAR better in yellow and are off course BIGGER with 2 more pots!!
so why NOT have them???
MUPPETS!
1. The standard 4 pot 'big reds' are on the limit in a car as heavy and powerful as a modded 996
2. You will pay almost NO extra for PCCB's on a used Porsche.
3. They are ALOT lighter... less unsprung weight means better handling
4. its VERY easy and VERY cheap to put either standard 997 Turbo steel discs in the 6 pots Calipers if you want to not risk the carbons.
5. get a seperate Alcon disc and bell set up for the bigger calipers (I can go through a set of standard 997 steel discs IN ONE TRACK DAY!)
6. They calipers look FAR better in yellow and are off course BIGGER with 2 more pots!!
so why NOT have them???
MUPPETS!
. As you say, the bigger "yellow" callipers rock, the carbon discs however make my eyes water at the thought of replacing them .Like you say, I would do so with steel discs - maybe even going to 378s to improve braking and longevity
.
23-12-2009, 09:14 AM
#64
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I'm not bemoaning the callipers, it's the discs . As you say, the bigger "yellow" callipers rock, the carbon discs however make my eyes water at the thought of replacing them .
Like you say, I would do so with steel discs - maybe even going to 378s to improve braking and longevity .
. As you say, the bigger "yellow" callipers rock, the carbon discs however make my eyes water at the thought of replacing them .Like you say, I would do so with steel discs - maybe even going to 378s to improve braking and longevity
.steel is the only option if you do though!
23-12-2009, 11:24 AM
#65
I'd stick to a manual motor mike. I love the dct on my current m3, about 95% of the time, but when the going really gets tough, a manual with a clutch is so much better. Either that or I need to practice more with the dct and the dct is clearly miles more advanced than the SMG. I would stick standard mint m3, wheels tyres, brakes, suspension, exhaust. Cash left for supercharger and a good front mount cooling setup. That would suit you down to the ground.
Much faster than a csl and probably the same price, but with proper clutch control.
I'd say that would be a far better car than even my current dct, edc, e92 m3.
Cheers
RW
Much faster than a csl and probably the same price, but with proper clutch control.
I'd say that would be a far better car than even my current dct, edc, e92 m3.
Cheers
RW
24-12-2009, 11:52 AM
#67
Stu,
If you're still into track days, I'd either keep the CSL or spend some more money and go for the GT3....
The Tiptronic is shit on all the Porsches until you get to the latest dual clutch cars (2009 onwards).
Has the CSL made your left foot whither into a stick?
When are you thinking of selling the CSL and what sort of money do you value it at?
If you're still into track days, I'd either keep the CSL or spend some more money and go for the GT3....
The Tiptronic is shit on all the Porsches until you get to the latest dual clutch cars (2009 onwards).
Has the CSL made your left foot whither into a stick?
When are you thinking of selling the CSL and what sort of money do you value it at?
LOL yes i have become used to not having a clutch and love the fact that i can drive the CSL in auto on the road and use the paddles when i want to have a play.
No plans to sell it, i've just put some black BBS RC's on and had it wrapped in matt black and am still loving the car. I do miss the rush of a turbo engine though and would love a few more ponies under the bonnet.
But overall still loving the car to much to sell it.
24-12-2009, 03:08 PM
#69
just finding my feet
spot the two blokes that don't own Porsches though....
1. The standard 4 pot 'big reds' are on the limit in a car as heavy and powerful as a modded 996
2. You will pay almost NO extra for PCCB's on a used Porsche.
3. They are ALOT lighter... less unsprung weight means better handling
4. its VERY easy and VERY cheap to put either standard 997 Turbo steel discs in the 6 pots Calipers if you want to not risk the carbons.
5. get a seperate Alcon disc and bell set up for the bigger calipers (I can go through a set of standard 997 steel discs IN ONE TRACK DAY!)
6. They calipers look FAR better in yellow and are off course BIGGER with 2 more pots!!
so why NOT have them???
MUPPETS!
1. The standard 4 pot 'big reds' are on the limit in a car as heavy and powerful as a modded 996
2. You will pay almost NO extra for PCCB's on a used Porsche.
3. They are ALOT lighter... less unsprung weight means better handling
4. its VERY easy and VERY cheap to put either standard 997 Turbo steel discs in the 6 pots Calipers if you want to not risk the carbons.
5. get a seperate Alcon disc and bell set up for the bigger calipers (I can go through a set of standard 997 steel discs IN ONE TRACK DAY!)
6. They calipers look FAR better in yellow and are off course BIGGER with 2 more pots!!
so why NOT have them???
MUPPETS!
as for not owning a porsche,, that is very true but i do happen to know a few people who do for some strange reason but cant think why ?
24-12-2009, 03:19 PM
#70
Of all the pointless parts of my post to quote..Mike!
I wanted to try something new and really wanted to try a higher cylinder'd engine. It is without DOUBT a better engine than the e46. By miles infact. However, overall, for what you are looking for. YOU, not me. The csl would have not so good a gearbox, so you could do the same with a regular e46 m3, and have the manual gearbox reliability, lose not acceleration as unlike the e92, the dct is faster than the manual due to the faster shifts and the 7th gear allowing the ratios to be split better.
What would you lose out on with the suggestion I have compared to the csl you want, other than the feeling of having a csl ? (yawn btw ).
If I could afford the risk of the engine I would take the porsche anyway
RW
I wanted to try something new and really wanted to try a higher cylinder'd engine. It is without DOUBT a better engine than the e46. By miles infact. However, overall, for what you are looking for. YOU, not me. The csl would have not so good a gearbox, so you could do the same with a regular e46 m3, and have the manual gearbox reliability, lose not acceleration as unlike the e92, the dct is faster than the manual due to the faster shifts and the 7th gear allowing the ratios to be split better.
What would you lose out on with the suggestion I have compared to the csl you want, other than the feeling of having a csl ? (yawn btw
).If I could afford the risk of the engine I would take the porsche anyway
RW
26-12-2009, 01:01 PM
#79
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Yeah was prob the same one mate, they go there all the time. Were there 3 evos? black, white and red? The wheels on it in the pic were just as it was being built as a track car, has different ones on it now
Last edited by PT; 26-12-2009 at 01:03 PM.