rs frampton

hi i have got a focus rs only running approx 280 300 bhp the problem is i have had a massive intercooler on there since i bought it and my merchanic said my car could be so much quicker if i had a smaller intercooler her saaid the one i have got is proberly good enough for a saph or somink it is a 100mm core airtec, its creating so much lag so iam looking to gett a smaller one but this is really expensive dunno what to do???? do you think anyone would want this one for a smaller one or a standard rs one???? REALLY STUCK DUNNO WHAT TO DO

m4tt274

iTrader: (2)

i wouldnt have thought it would be that much of a differance. spending lots of money on a smaller intercooler i dont think would make much differance. unless this really is a massive intercooler.

Dlatch!

yeah would have to be huge or badly designed to create the lag
i assume the car was remapped after fitting the intercooler?

mrjenrst

how does an intercooler induce lag lol

Christian and Beccy

iTrader: (14)

Theoretically, the greater the capacity of the boost system, the longer the turbo will take to spool, but in reality, I imagine its fuck all.

Red16

The larger the intercooler the longer it will take to reach the boost pressure, as it has more volume it takes longer to fill up with air, but in reality the difference is so small its not noticable.

mrjenrst

Thats what i mean you wouldnt feel the 'lag' due to the intercooler surely to fuck? Or it wouldnt make a massive difference to change it.

fuzzy

the intercooler will always be full of air. the deciding factor id have thought would be the amount that will fit through the intake on the turbo?

mrjenrst

Exactly, unless it was a massive turbo?
I'm confused

fuzzy

the amount that goes in will be the amount that goes out with the big area in the middle just a reservoir holding cool air

rs frampton

Trust me it redickuless the amount of lag the intercooler should bbe on a 500 plus bhp car I just wana get a standard one for my one and yea yer car was remapped before intercooler put on the pipes are so long so time turbo spoils up and gets down the pipes it's lost the intenseness

fuzzy

but the pressure feeding the air in will also be forcing the same amount of air out through the turbo. i cant see how the cooler will be to big. but them im a joiner.

cjwood555

Because the intercooler does not have infinite flow capacity or zereo pressure drop. The larger the volume for an equivalent pressure drop, the more air has to be pumped in to force the same amount out. But the yes, the consumption by the engine is a more significant factor....

mechanic28

iTrader: (5)

what turbo/exhaust manifold are you using?when is she boosting by?

Chip

iTrader: (3)

Bigger intercooler will produce more lag, but we are talking fractions of a second not anything that matters, and as a trade off it gives far better intake temps generally speaking.

Always makes me laugh how much notice people take of mechanics, there are a few who know a bit, but generally speaking these are people who failed their GCSE's and then did some form of apprenticeship or vocations qualification so probably not the ideal candidates for giving out advice about scientific matters.

Big difference between a mechanic and a tuner, but most mechanics dont seem to realise this and think they are all experts


Mechanic = Person who removes parts and replaces them

Tuner = Someone who knows how to modify a car to improve performance



Nurse = Someone who applies bandages

Brain Surgeon = Someone who knows how to do brain surgey



I wouldnt let a nurse give me brain surgery, and I wouldnt let a mechanic give me tuning advice



At 4000rpm you are getting 2000 engine cycles per minute, or over 30 a second, on a 2 litre engine at about 70-80% VE that is a consumption of about 40-50 litres a second, even a big intercooler is only about 10 litres normally, and cant say ive ever seen one over 20 litres.

mechanic28

iTrader: (5)

i wish it was as easy as removing and fitting parts lol my wage would be good wage if it was that easy!but instead is crap for my job

mrjenrst

go chip

Chip

iTrader: (3)

What else does your job involve then, besides replacing service items, and diagnosing faulty parts and replacing them?

mechanic28

iTrader: (5)

well the electrical side of cars its getting complicated now!if it was as easy as you say i would not of had to do a apprenticeship!if its so easy why does everyone not jsut fix there cars?what do most tuners do apart from bolt on bits?and adjust a few bits and bobs

NEILNATO

correct, well as there is more air in the larger intercooler, then the turbo will take longer to compress that extra air hense creating lag, big intercoolers also require big turbo's, but as the others have stated, you wont really notice the difference

B19 JUB

agreed.people who just replace parts are fitters ie kwik fit and the like.people who diagnoses faults and replace faulty parts are technicians.
arent tuners basically the same as technicians?,they diagnoses parts which are hampering performance and replace them.

rs frampton

It's running standard turbo with full decat mongoose exhaust. It also has a really crappy in induction kit which came with the car which I aim to change to back to original air box with k&n panel filter she starts to spoil up around 2000 but boost comes on at 2500 2700. I'm not complaining I love the way you have to wait for the lag to go before she puts you in the back of the seat I just wish tge delivery was bit more sooner coz wen I pull away I've either gotta rag the 6 paddel clutch with untold wheelspin to get a quick start or pull away then bury the throttle with less wheelspin more lag. The gezzer who told me this problem was a tuner/metchanic and he's done wonders with my focus so ffar like finding problems noone else can see what a great company he trades as Hayes engernering/ dynotech he's based in erith Kent.

GUZZLER

iTrader: (3)

Frampton, i think you need to take your car to someone who knows about Focus RS's, if its the proper FRS airtech cooler then plenty of peopl are using them with no problems.
what induction kit have you got? if its not a proper FRS one then it can cause major problems because of the air flow meter, post a pic of the induction kit.

andrewg

is it bigger than this?

Chip

iTrader: (3)

Even with the electronics getting more complicated you are still only ever doing the same basic thing ultimatly, which is simply attempting to return a faulty car back to a standard specification or performing basic maintaince on one, there is no improvement upon or deviation from the original design, its a totally different job from tuning.
Im not saying it requires no skill at all, im merely saying that it doesnt teach you anything about improving performance beyond standard, and yet many people seem to make the assumption it does.

It's Czech Mate

fuzzy

i think in most cases if its a mechanic whos been in the job for many years he is likely to have a fairly good understanding of how it all works and what works best.
theres nothing new or ground breaking happening here.
does a tuner serve a different sort of apprenticeship to a mechanic or do they all start as mechanics and progress to other things?
but considering the 'specialist' tuner made a right cunt of my conversion theres no guarantees anywhere.

Chip

iTrader: (3)

I dont understand what context you are saying that in, do you mean he will know how to remap a car to increase the performance beyond that of the standard car despite having never done so in his job?


Surely thats exactly what tuner is mean to be?
You are taking something and turning it into something different that performs better?

If you are a tuner for a manufacturer then you will be specifically trained in things like ecu calibration yes (the industry term for "mapping"), however if you are a self employed tuner or start your own tuning company to work for like most tuners on here have done, then you will simply have gained experience over the years of tuning initally as a hobby and then as a hobby job and your knowledge will come from that, plus maybe some self education in terms of reading about the subject.

Apprenticeships and college courses etc are only one way of learning, and IME not a great one to go beyond the most basic of knowledge, experience is key.

fuzzy

i was talking in the context of the o/p and his intercooler issue. for things like that im sure the majority of older mechanics will be clued up enough to comment.not always sure enough though.
are there many tuners breaking new ground and inventing new stuff or just working to tried and tested known routes?
perhaps im oversimplifying it but i wopuldnt consider using specific tools of the trade to do specific jobs to already known tollerences as particularly new or groundbreaking but just another slightly more advanced level of what the mechanic will do.

Chip

iTrader: (3)

When tuning a car beyond standard, there is no manual for you to look the tolerances up in like there is for when you are building things to standard specification, you have to work it out for yourself how far you can push the components IMHO

fuzzy

im sure like anything youll get good and bad tuners. most will operate within a comfort zone doing tried and tested off the shelf available set ups and a few will be pushing the bounderies.

Chip

iTrader: (3)

I agree with that statement, Ive certainly seen some fucking shocking maps done by so called "tuners", so there is no doubt there are bad ones out there!

However with a main dealer mechanic for example, there will be NO boundaries beying pushed by anyone anywhere ever at all, as all they are trying to achieve on every car is simply to put it back how it was when it left the factory in the first place.

nealo

Have to say that sounds like a load of garbage!

dojj

iTrader: (3)

bus i/c is where its at


but you'd need tn roof mount it lol

mechanic28

iTrader: (5)

so you saying main dealer mechanics are just fitters?

andrewg

i would say most are,,and when they have to diagnose a problem its done with the vehicle manufacurer and a computer.. any good vehicle tech will have left a dealer ship to start for them self or go into areospace etc where the money is better

vroooom ptssssh

Can't be bigger than this suerly?




I agree with chip 100% on the mechanics/tuner thing......

mechanic28

iTrader: (5)

Lol agreed the money aint that good in a main dealer for what you have to know!!Cracks me up that people think its just plug in a computer and bingo you got the fault!really makes me laugh that!

Chip

iTrader: (3)

No, as per all my posts on the subject, I think that many of them also have the skills and experience using equipment to allow them to diagnose a fault when something deviates from its specification.
so although fitting is certainly a large part of the job, its not all that is involved as that implies that no diagnosis of faults is included.

What they certainly dont need for their job though, is any understanding of how to modify an engine, as their job is concerned purely with getting back to the factory specification, not looking into the best ways to deviate from it.

Much like my analogy of a nurse, they also have the ability to diagnose basic faults as well as fix them in an attempt to essentially bring them back as close as possible to original spec (although arguably a nurses job is less simple in this respect due to the variation in spec for a person, so I apologise to any nurses offended by the analogy, but like all analogies it will break down at some point), but they dont know how to perform surgery to alter the specification of someone like for example bypassing transmitters in the brain damaged by cancer to provide a new route for information transfer or whatever it is that brain surgeons actually do on a day to day basis.

carlo

iTrader: (4)

There are 8 tech's in our workshop & if the computer dont say replace it they are proper stumped! They are just like fitters! like andrew said most ppl move on the the aerospace incustry! we have lost 5 guys in 4 years to local goodrich better money / hours bonus ect for doing the same job fitting. The best tech in the world could come into this bmw dealership but if he dosent know how to work the computer & do the write up/ clockings he is no use.