Is there a better designed plenum than this?
30-11-2004, 08:43 PM
#161
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Hexxon,
My SCS (Harvey Gibb) dyno sheet. These dyno figures were with amal valve boost control. I now have a Greddy Boost Controller fitted and the boost does come in a earlier (now feels a fair bit stronger low down than when the amal valve was used)........but of course i'ts still a plain old T4, so laggy as F**K in the "real world" i.e. when compared with just about any other turbo LOL
.......SUPERB at the top end of the rev range though 
My SCS (Harvey Gibb) dyno sheet. These dyno figures were with amal valve boost control. I now have a Greddy Boost Controller fitted and the boost does come in a earlier (now feels a fair bit stronger low down than when the amal valve was used)........but of course i'ts still a plain old T4, so laggy as F**K in the "real world" i.e. when compared with just about any other turbo LOL
.......SUPERB at the top end of the rev range though
30-11-2004, 08:51 PM
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Ahh, just as i predicted then, what it seems like, you have really nice effects on boost, but worse without! Also a real boost spike there, ketchup... Great info that! Thanks. Do you like the engine characteristics? Is it impulsive when driving at slow speeds, moving the throttle up and down a lot, like in city-traffic and on trackdays?
Originally Posted by Doug Stirling
Hexxon,
My SCS (Harvey Gibb) dyno sheet. These dyno figures were
with amal valve boost control. I now have a Greddy Boost
Controller fitted and the boost does come in a earlier,
feels a fair bit stronger low down than when the Amal Valve
was used........but of course i'ts still a plain old T4, so laggy
as F**K in the "real world" i.e. when compared with just about
any other turbo LOL .......SUPERB at the top end of the
rev range though
My SCS (Harvey Gibb) dyno sheet. These dyno figures were
with amal valve boost control. I now have a Greddy Boost
Controller fitted and the boost does come in a earlier,
feels a fair bit stronger low down than when the Amal Valve
was used........but of course i'ts still a plain old T4, so laggy
as F**K in the "real world" i.e. when compared with just about
any other turbo LOL
.......SUPERB at the top end of the rev range though
30-11-2004, 09:05 PM
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Originally Posted by hexxon
Ahh, just as i predicted then, what it seems like, you have really nice effects on boost, but worse without! Also a real boost spike there, ketchup... Great info that! Thanks. Do you like the engine characteristics? Is it impulsive when driving at slow speeds, moving the throttle up and down a lot, like in city-traffic and on trackdays?
As for on track, the tall standard gearing and T4 lag out of chicanes/hairpins is the only snag..........would deffo be better with 17's and 3.9 diffs
30-11-2004, 11:06 PM
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Ive gone into this in the thread more deeply. Read and you will get my point of it atleast. Its not always as much about maximum power as average power, always considering what the car will be used for!
Originally Posted by EIL132
So how much do these super plenums give you then over say a 500 one?
30-11-2004, 11:13 PM
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Originally Posted by hexxon
Ive gone into this in the thread more deeply. Read and you will get my point of it atleast. Its not always as much about maximum power as average power, always considering what the car will be used for!
Originally Posted by EIL132
So how much do these super plenums give you then over say a 500 one?
30-11-2004, 11:13 PM
#171
DEYTUKURJERBS
Originally Posted by Billabong
ketchup-effect as we call it in sweden
Originally Posted by Doug Stirling
Yes, I like it very much
When theres ways of giving you all the advantages with less of the disadvantages tho, its best to do that instead.
Thats trouble with tuner specced engines quite often, they do it all their way, and their way often has flaws.
30-11-2004, 11:20 PM
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Originally Posted by EIL132
Originally Posted by hexxon
Ive gone into this in the thread more deeply. Read and you will get my point of it atleast. Its not always as much about maximum power as average power, always considering what the car will be used for!
Originally Posted by EIL132
So how much do these super plenums give you then over say a 500 one?
30-11-2004, 11:30 PM
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[quote="Itsmeagain"]
Yes Steve, the power delivery is deffo flawed, but once you get used to it and adapt it really is'nt that bad at all. At least there is good power all the way to the rev limiter (7,600) with no tailing off 
As you say, when you go to a certain tuner you accept that you will be asking them to do the job their way - the way that that the tuner knows will "work".
Originally Posted by Doug Stirling
Yes, I like it very much[/quote
So you got no problem with it being like that, i think i could live with it too as once you in the powerband your well away, but what Patrik means is that dont make it nice, just acceptable.
When theres ways of giving you all the advantages with less of the disadvantages tho, its best to do that instead.
Thats trouble with tuner specced engines quite often, they do it all their way, and their way often has flaws.
So you got no problem with it being like that, i think i could live with it too as once you in the powerband your well away, but what Patrik means is that dont make it nice, just acceptable.
When theres ways of giving you all the advantages with less of the disadvantages tho, its best to do that instead.
Thats trouble with tuner specced engines quite often, they do it all their way, and their way often has flaws.
As you say, when you go to a certain tuner you accept that you will be asking them to do the job their way - the way that that the tuner knows will "work".
30-11-2004, 11:34 PM
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Originally Posted by Itsmeagain
Originally Posted by Billabong
ketchup-effect as we call it in sweden
Originally Posted by Doug Stirling
Yes, I like it very much
When theres ways of giving you all the advantages with less of the disadvantages tho, its best to do that instead.
Thats trouble with tuner specced engines quite often, they do it all their way, and their way often has flaws.
You took the words out of my mouth there mate. Exactly, its acceptable when you get used to it, but preferably you always want it as optimal as possible for yourself right? Not having to adapt to a tuner, but the other way around? According to me, a good tuner is one who builds an engine according to the customer. Theres few of those, especially few single persons...
30-11-2004, 11:46 PM
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Itsmeagain wrote:
Billabong wrote:
Quote:
ketchup-effect as we call it in sweden
I think thats a damn good explanation, i knew what he meant soon as he wrote it, made me smile, and fair play, best way of explaining it ive seen
Billabong wrote:
Quote:
ketchup-effect as we call it in sweden
I think thats a damn good explanation, i knew what he meant soon as he wrote it, made me smile, and fair play, best way of explaining it ive seen
01-12-2004, 07:29 AM
#176
It was our club meeting last night, which is why I didn't get a chance to post the pictures up 
.
Patrik does not design or supply the inlet manifolds on my website or where he has posted pictures of this set-up, he was just giving his approval of them. His design has not yet been put in to the metal (so to speak) as yet, but looks as though it will be something pretty special. But being machined from a solid billet and estimated to take 200 hours, I can't see it being cheap 
.
I got my engine builder to build me an engine to what I wanted and despite using a T4, I have very good low down response. A bar of boost at 3150 rpm and 2.2 bar by 3500rpm .
Here is my head - this is a medium port head to keep gas speed up and uses standard size valves just given a 3-angle cut. Sorry about the quality of the photo.
.Patrik does not design or supply the inlet manifolds on my website or where he has posted pictures of this set-up, he was just giving his approval of them
. His design has not yet been put in to the metal (so to speak) as yet, but looks as though it will be something pretty special. But being machined from a solid billet and estimated to take 200 hours, I can't see it being cheap .I got my engine builder to build me an engine to what I wanted and despite using a T4, I have very good low down response
. A bar of boost at 3150 rpm and 2.2 bar by 3500rpm .Here is my head - this is a medium port head to keep gas speed up and uses standard size valves just given a 3-angle cut. Sorry about the quality of the photo.
01-12-2004, 09:10 AM
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Regarding my plenum, and rest of intake. That is strictly confidential as for now 
No, honestly, i prefer not to flash my ideas of the intake around too much. Ive given a few clues in the thread already... The plenum is, as Mike said, not manufactured yet. The plenum will be milled out of two very manly aluminium blocks measuring in at 500x130x65 mm. Right now its just a surface 3d-model in a few computers, waiting to be CAM-prepared in a Deckel Maho-mill. This cuty is doing 40 000 rpm on the spindle and has 6 or 7 axles of rotation, cant remember which. Although this, the manufacturing will take a full day. Thanks to the high revs of the spindle, the surface will be as polished, straight out of the mill.
No, honestly, i prefer not to flash my ideas of the intake around too much. Ive given a few clues in the thread already... The plenum is, as Mike said, not manufactured yet. The plenum will be milled out of two very manly aluminium blocks measuring in at 500x130x65 mm. Right now its just a surface 3d-model in a few computers, waiting to be CAM-prepared in a Deckel Maho-mill. This cuty is doing 40 000 rpm on the spindle and has 6 or 7 axles of rotation, cant remember which. Although this, the manufacturing will take a full day. Thanks to the high revs of the spindle, the surface will be as polished, straight out of the mill.
01-12-2004, 09:15 AM
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Originally Posted by Mike Rainbird
It was our club meeting last night, which is why I didn't get a chance to post the pictures up .
Patrik does not design or supply the inlet manifolds on my website or where he has posted pictures of this set-up, he was just giving his approval of them. His design has not yet been put in to the metal (so to speak) as yet, but looks as though it will be something pretty special. But being machined from a solid billet and estimated to take 200 hours, I can't see it being cheap .
I got my engine builder to build me an engine to what I wanted and despite using a T4, I have very good low down response. A bar of boost at 3150 rpm and 2.2 bar by 3500rpm .
Here is my head - this is a medium port head to keep gas speed up and uses standard size valves just given a 3-angle cut. Sorry about the quality of the photo.
.Patrik does not design or supply the inlet manifolds on my website or where he has posted pictures of this set-up, he was just giving his approval of them
. His design has not yet been put in to the metal (so to speak) as yet, but looks as though it will be something pretty special. But being machined from a solid billet and estimated to take 200 hours, I can't see it being cheap .I got my engine builder to build me an engine to what I wanted and despite using a T4, I have very good low down response
. A bar of boost at 3150 rpm and 2.2 bar by 3500rpm .Here is my head - this is a medium port head to keep gas speed up and uses standard size valves just given a 3-angle cut. Sorry about the quality of the photo.
Thats a fair engine builder. The head looks good from the look of it. Quite a little boost spike youve got there though, but quite a bit better in the lower register than dougs as it seems?
The T4 is a hard nut to crack...
01-12-2004, 09:18 AM
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Originally Posted by PhilM
Just starting fluid dynamics at uni today, so not long from now I should have an idea about what you mean
Good luck mate!
01-12-2004, 09:25 AM
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Mike whats with the tongue out for T4 at 15 psi at 3000 rpm - seen better on monkey engines
I did thermo/fluid mechanics and hydrodynamics at uni ...... most boring subject ever - I find bolting the largest turbo out the catalogue onto your standard engine much more rewarding than analysing plenums
I did thermo/fluid mechanics and hydrodynamics at uni ...... most boring subject ever - I find bolting the largest turbo out the catalogue onto your standard engine much more rewarding than analysing plenums
01-12-2004, 09:33 AM
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LOL @ "monkey engines"! Well i find it quite capable after all, the only troubling thing is the T4, based on the lack of info ive got The T4 is much too inefficient, considering spool-up, nowadays in standard design...
Well thats the common point of view of it all, isnt it!?
The T4 is much too inefficient, considering spool-up, nowadays in standard design...Well thats the common point of view of it all, isnt it!?
Originally Posted by dumped
Mike whats with the tongue out for T4 at 15 psi at 3000 rpm - seen better on monkey engines
I did thermo/fluid mechanics and hydrodynamics at uni ...... most boring subject ever - I find bolting the largest turbo out the catalogue onto your standard engine much more rewarding than analysing plenums
I did thermo/fluid mechanics and hydrodynamics at uni ...... most boring subject ever - I find bolting the largest turbo out the catalogue onto your standard engine much more rewarding than analysing plenums
01-12-2004, 09:35 AM
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Thanks mate, glad theres a lot of people actually enjoying this stuff!
Yes, thats a quote that says pretty much, isnt it?
I bet he is, LOL.
Yes, thats a quote that says pretty much, isnt it?
I bet he is, LOL.
Originally Posted by Stu @ M Developments
Excellent thread 
I especially like the quote in your Siggy Patrick
Jano must be shocked
I especially like the quote in your Siggy Patrick
Jano must be shocked
01-12-2004, 09:59 AM
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LOL! Yes, really, i dont understand why the GT-series of turbochargers is not more widely used than it is... A GT35 with ball bearings could probably perform miracles on Mikes car. And this is just the plain standard version...
Originally Posted by Stu @ M Developments
The T4 is a terrible turbo in my opinion and always has been.. deserved leaving on the Ford 5litre diesel delivery truck it came off in 1986 when some mechanic said "Wahay, lets bolt that fooker on this YB at lunchtime for a giggle"
01-12-2004, 10:29 AM
#190
about time you got rid of the dynosaur mike
so why canrt ppl make t4 with a wide power band like gt turbos
rs500 t4 4200-7500 and its all over
my gt turbo 4200-9000
why is this ?
so why canrt ppl make t4 with a wide power band like gt turbos
rs500 t4 4200-7500 and its all over
my gt turbo 4200-9000
why is this ?
01-12-2004, 10:57 AM
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Originally Posted by BROM@ZOO
about time you got rid of the dynosaur mike
so why canrt ppl make t4 with a wide power band like gt turbos
rs500 t4 4200-7500 and its all over
my gt turbo 4200-9000
why is this ?
so why canrt ppl make t4 with a wide power band like gt turbos
rs500 t4 4200-7500 and its all over
my gt turbo 4200-9000
why is this ?
01-12-2004, 11:43 AM
#200
Originally Posted by Mike Rainbird
Brom,
Because the T4 is a truck turbo and was never designed to have a fast spool up time with a small capacity petrol engine. It can be forced to with extra capacity though.
Because the T4 is a truck turbo and was never designed to have a fast spool up time with a small capacity petrol engine. It can be forced to with extra capacity though
.so in your new engine is it gona rev then