Rod-Tarry

Mike ive not done a Topspeed event for nearly 3 years & my budget is far less than Kev had to spend this year. I can choose when, where I run, the entrants to TA who spend 20k+ for a seasons fun have then to get their cars to each round & hope the problems they have dont cost too much.
Its completely different.

Stavros

Id put money a LOT of TA competitors spend a whole fuckload less than 20k a year to run their car, even in Pro, in fact I know that for a fact.

Thats about as accurate as your "it costs 3000quid to do TOTB" or whatever you said a few times.

MikeR

Steve is that for parts alone and repairs ? or man hours work on cars because l can imagine if they added up the man hours spent it would amount to a shit load,

Mike

MikeR

People like to dream Lee

Some people are in dream land, l honestly dont think we will ever see a day when a Cosworth wins Time Attack as the rules stand

Mike

Mike Rainbird

iTrader: (3)

I agree with that Mike, as the Cossie boys are struggling to find a set-up that works with the control tyres.

All the top cars are mega-bhp monsters that rely on hugh top speeds, rather than corner speed, as the tyres don't allow big corner speed on big bhp cars (just not being designed for 600+ bhp cars). In my investigations to find a set-up that works on my car (pressure and temp wise), many have reported the control tyre as having a really small window of perfect operating temps and optimum grip levels.

The Cossies, being well down on power, rely on corner speed and are therefore struggling (ask Tommy about his set-up attempts at Brands).

MikeR

It would be nice to see it happen, but l think any new comer to TA would instictivly go for a Scooby or Evo over a Cossie, it will take a wealth knowlegdable genuine enthusiast to put a Cossie on the podium, and even then it would not be a regular thing.

Mike

John Savage

Yep totally agree and would be nice to see a cossie mix it with the top boys BUT we are dealing with OLD technology compared to an EVO or Scooby, if you want to win start with the best/newest tech then go from there. Having said that i think cossies could compete if someone wanted to invest the money and time to delevop the car specifically for TA and be constantly in top 5-8.

Stats from Brands last round were:-

Brands Hatch Time Set Record held by Set in
Pro 48.901 Phil Glew - Zen Performance - Impreza Rd5 - 2008
Club F/I 52.217 Kev Horsley - Impreza GC8 Rd5 - 2008
Club N/A 54.061 Jeff Mileham - TVR Tuscan Rd5 - 2008

Rod Birley's escort did a 51.35 lap last year, so not too far off as would have been running alot less horse power than the big boys.

Mike Rainbird

iTrader: (3)

Rod Birley was on slicks to achieve those times, he would be at least another 2-3 seconds down on the control tyres... .

You can't call Tommy Field's car "old hat", it is probably the most technically advanced car in the field, with active diffs etc. However, it will take him time to get the car set-up to suit the road orientated tyres - something that the top boys have a couple of seasons head-start on .

MikeR

By that comment Mike is Tommy competing in all of next season?

Mike

Mike Rainbird

iTrader: (3)

Mike,
You'd have to ask Tommy that. I know he hasn't given up yet, as he should be at Snetterton in October. I would imagine it depends on how he gets on there and if he can get the tyres to work on his car .

MikeR

Do you think the Escort needs Active diffs to be competative with the Evo's and Scooby ?

Mike

John Savage

I agree mike but still will be 100bhp at least down compared to the big boys so would this not compensate? + car could/would be set up again for the 888'S?

Tommy's car is also the most technically advanced OLD escort technology. not 2008 evo or scoob tech.

Mike Rainbird

iTrader: (3)

No, you need equivalent power OR better suspension / transmission.

The Scoobies and Evo's aren't running any special or advanced technology, they are just being run by companies prepared to throw huge quantities of money at ever more powerful engines.

Whether a 200bhp deficit, but MUCH better technically advanced transmission components is going to be sufficient is the real question. I think the power deficit might be too much to make up in the cornering (where the active diffs come into their own), with the control tyre going off so quickly. However, if it rains, then the disparity will be narrowed, and a well set up car could surprise some people. Unfortunately all we can do is watch and see how the Field car progresses. If he does well, and can get the car keyed in with the tyres, then it wouldn't surprise me if other tuners join in, but if he can't get the car to work with the control tyres, then it will put others off.....

Mike Rainbird

iTrader: (3)

What technology do you think they are running, which is better than Tommy's car?

MikeR

But by that Mike are you not implying that the others have not put as much thought in to Suspension and Transmisson, or merely that because they dont have active diffs they are not as advanced.

I am just trying to learn here not be antagonistic

Oh Mr Norris is in the house, whats your veiw Simon on suspension and transmission set up's ?

What other tuners do you think would join in? Is Gary's Evo going to be at Snetterton ? It is the day after my wedding some might pop along

Mike

John Savage

Yes here what your say mate BUT, the works escorts finished rallying and racing when?, the current batch of evo's and scoobs are still out there on the big stage BEING DEVELOPED, we ( ford) have a focus, so unless someone gets hold of a focus wrc car and goes TA rather than use a car that has been stopped in production, we will be as you say coming from behind!

RickyLee53

Drifting is totally different IMO, it's like saying football is the skilled version of rugby. Ok it might be to some extent, but it's not exactly the same. (ask a rugby player)

I agree about people with backing and HUGE funds but sadly its the same everywhere. Getting the cash is half the battle.

Mike Rainbird

iTrader: (3)

The current cars aren't even allowed the same technology as past cars, so is irrellevant - no active diffs etc .

Simon Norris

[QUOTE=Mike Rainbird;3518851]
The Scoobies and Evo's aren't running any special or advanced technology, they are just being run by companies prepared to throw huge quantities of money at ever more powerful engines.
QUOTE]

This is so wrong Mike! Aero is were its at this year hence the huge reduction in lap records at most venues. The high Hp helps a GREAT deal but your comment is wrong.

I've struggled this year in my Castle Combe car but I have really enjoyed myself. Thats not high Hp really and has std box, all std panels etc etc. However I fitted a decent(Ish) front splitter and big rear spoiler and could not believe the difference in the way the car handled, it turned it from an understeering POS into a really great car to use. The R888 with some aero works really really well!

Cheers

Si

MikeR

Thats intersting Simon,

Will we see a return of the infamous Snow Plow from Andrewg ?

Whens the bogey ready Simon? for the last round ?

Mike

Simon Norris

Im certainley planning to have the Bogey out at the last round. not that I have ever driven at Snet but will give it my best shot with minimum testing.

Cheers

Si

MikeR

Wicked will hopefully be popping along only heard about it never seen this, just your Combe car

Mike

Mike Rainbird

iTrader: (3)

[quote=Simon Norris;3518956]You have to agree that aero can only help so much, as you HAVE to have the power to be competitive. Obviously a well set up car with a better transmission and aero package than a more powerful car can make up a suprising amount of ground, BUT if the disparity is 2-300bhp, then either the circuit has to be technical enough that a well driven car can compete, or it still isn't going to be sufficient.

The WRC cars don't suffer from a lack of rear down force, but maybe some aero improvements could be made to Tommy's car like Warren has done with his, which may make up a small deficit in power, but if ALL the top cars are doing this as you are, then lack of power is still going to be the issue .

Simon Norris

Mike - My own opinion of Tommy's car was that needed a decent front splitter, this would have made his car soooo much faster on those tyres. Having said that there is so much more to aero than a big spoiler and front splitter, we are in the process of learning this now. Power is important but aero is far more important.

Driver is another huge factor, pro drivers are worth their weight in gold (not that I use one or ever will), the main help is that they know the circuits already, whereas myself and many others don't.

The Cossie can be competitive if the above is addressed, power can be had from these engines and reliably if you use the "right guys" and maintain them properley (not that I want any Cossie builds for TA, the exact opposite infact).

As a side note, how can Fitzy (OP) not have any money when he doesn't pay his bills? Oh and also he is never going to be competitive when he can't change gear! Put him in the RCM car and he won't get anywhere either. Yes I know........ uneccesary but it made me feel better! Sorry all!

Cheers

Si

MikeR

What kind of power is required from a Cossie engine for this though ? 800bhp and a decent aero pack

Mike

Simon Norris

No, nowhere near, 650-700Hp will do with reduced weight and good aero! Except maybe at Silverstone.

Cheers

Si

MikeR

Thats an acheivable number is it not Mike, maybe Tony can build a new Aero Storm.......

It surely is not that hard for somebody to experiment with some aero panels for a session

Mike

Mike Rainbird

iTrader: (3)

Will be interesting to see how Tommy develops his car. Warren has alread followed the Japs with some aero additions to the front of his car...

MikeR

What has Warren done apart from those little carbon gurneys is that the correct term? small carbon bits on the front bumper ?

Are their any radical aero kits out their for Fords that could work?

Mike

Mike Rainbird

iTrader: (3)

Nothing, other than his splitter extends someway under the car and is flat. However, if you look at all the Jap Time Attack cars (as in the ones that are in the Japanese series), they all have these gurnies...

MikeR

What about something similar to what the Gabat cars use for hill climbinhg ? l know its a difference disicipline but that idea

Mike

Mike Rainbird

iTrader: (3)

Why not goe the whole hog and have something like the Pikes Peak cars .

Luca

iTrader: (2)

Canards is there name

I for the life of me struggle to rememebr there name...
Kendals i keep saying

MikeR

Thats the idea

Mike

Luca

iTrader: (2)

Front Bumper Canards are to aerodynamically tune the handling for the front of a car. The added downforce is meant to stabilize the cars chassis during hard cornering and increases traction for faster lap times.

I would say for exact results the front splitter or air dam + canards would need to be deisgned as a whole and tested in a wind tunnel to prove there results as every car has different charecteristics and air flow.

MikeR

So by that Luke even Mr Rainbum got it wrong

Why not enter yours in the FWD class

Mike

martinrs500labatts

rods car has done a 50.00 dead at brands only last year

he has not been under he magic 50.00 sec barrier as far as i know

and he is runing large slicks with 540 bhp and eight years of set up.

the time actack cars have raised the bar with stunning times to get below 50 sec without slicks!

MikeR

Martin do you not fancy having a crack at this ?

Mike

Homer.

Simon any chance of a picture of the front and under side of your voltex bumper to show what is needed?, i've seen a small picture of one and its a work of art, but again this is part of the issue you can buy the voltex full aero kit front bumper and rear upper and lower spoilers that all have been wind tested off the shelf.

The re amemiya kit is the same for the rx7 lads, The Re front splitter and under pannel could be copied/adaptied to fit the escort bumper in a similar way the standard splitter fits. but it would be a huge outlay for some one to get the proto types made up ect but with the amount of escort track/race cars about money that could possible be made back.

Luca

iTrader: (2)

I would need to get some more track time before i could even consider something like this. The weight of the car is going down nicely but its still not finished so have not even driven it with the current spec.

We shall see how it goes.. Does anyone have any info on the FWD cars that do enter etc please