dunketh

That doesnt strictly prove the negative, just that in the very worst case god is being a cunt to all those people.
I know its a crap argument but its as good as the argument against.

I think its a pointless debate. No-one can answer 100%.
Its like arguing about trees falling in the desert.

Jay,

iTrader: (4)

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2T1LIrzsgqA

tabetha

I don't beleive in any god of any kind.
My sis in law is a HINDU, who does NOT beleive in GOD either.
The only religion I live by is to treat others as I would wish to be treated, walk away if I can from trouble, as just don't want to know, been there done that, and five stretches!!
I think the best religion is TOLERANCE, of others, and harmony, but it will never happen, as I firmly beleive RELIGION of ANY sort is the start of WARS/greivances.
I don't and never would mock anyone, the closest I got to religion was as a Jehovas witness, but that did not last long as I found out more about it.
Let others believe what they want so long as it does not affect me, then it is none of my bussines.
tabetha

R5FORD

iTrader: (1)

As you said its called destiny.

baker p

i beleive in science , but god ?.... bit far fetched to be honest... i mean where his he then? for me, if there was a god then he would be an able bodied lifeform not some spirit or orb type thingy.
Would be nice to believe but i doubt it 100%

Nash_mr2

reliigion is fucked up and dangerous - it causes too much suffering and too many arguments for me to care about or get involved in

Turbocabbie

I believe everything can be explained eventually.. we just lack the full facts as the joke below shows

An elderly couple go to their doctor for a checkup. The man goes in first. "How're you doing?" asks the doctor. "Pretty good," answers the old man. "I'm eating well, and I'm still in control of my bowels and bladder. In fact, when I get up at night to pee, the good Lord turns the light on for me."

The doctor decides not to comment on that last statement, and goes into the next room to check on the man's wife. "How're you feeling?" he asks. "I'm doing well," answers the old woman. "I still have lots of energy and I'm not feeling any pain." The doctor says, "That's nice. It sounds like you and your husband are both doing well.

One thing though - your husband said that when he gets up to pee at night, the good Lord turns the light on for him. Do you have any idea what he means?" "Oh No," says the woman, "He's peeing in the refrigerator again.

Kam B

I dont beleive in mocking or taking piss out of people who beleive in God..we all have beleifs one way or another and shouldnt let us stop getting on with each other...people make war not religion IMO

but hey il prob get gunned for saying all that

H15 FSC

all religion is and was is GANGS,
A big gang!!!!
the church is a gang ,wanting u to pay them to be in there gang,
the goverment is a gang, but a big one that pay people to enforce what they want (ie police, army)
all the people in the world just want to be in the biggest gang ,so thats why they fight for wot they belive in ,
i done belive in religion ,But i do belive in KARMA!!!!!!!!

R5FORD

iTrader: (1)

so your telling me i want to be in a gang?? like i have nothing better to do then want to be a gang member.

Stu @ M Developments

iTrader: (12)

This topic can never be a decent one as people tend to get all childish saying "Bollox, end of" and such moronic crap so it will be watched carefully and deleted if it gets stupid. May i sugest if you dont have any DECENT input that enhances discussion and education, then you dont reply...

I dont have any solid views about god either way, but there is no way that life "Just Happened" that the sun and rain happens to provide life for everything and that males and females can have sex and reproduce new life as easy as making a sandwich. That is the unexplained to me and since there is no proof in existance to my knowledge of how it all came about, i am reasonably happy to remain in ignorance about such things.

Spiky

iTrader: (1)

if there was a god, why is my DAD dead?

if there was god, he's a TWAT,

and if there was a god, surely he would have kept him alive so he could enjoy life with me and family?



so all that said.... THERE IS NO FUCKING GOD... END OF.

R5FORD

iTrader: (1)

as some members belie in destiny.. it was his and you destiny

Diseasel

Personally i dont believe in god but have no problem with anyone who does..the problems i have is those who murder in his name no matter what name that be. Put things into context what the islamic extremist believe in and act in the name of now,is similar as to what christian extremist did in the middle ages but without todays technology.

Turbocabbie

destiny means that we have no control over our own future, no choices to make.

I refuse to believe that destiny has more to do with the fact that I do not steal, am not violent, and do not have a criminal record than the principles and upbringing I received of my parents.

Its not destiny when someone drinks and drives and kills someone, they have the choice not to take the car, the choice not to drink.

I have no evidence for destiny

Turbocabbie

Peter Sutcliffe the Yorkshire Ripper claimed that god told him to kill and that it was his destiny.

If you believe in a god and destiny then you must appreciate the possibility of what he said as being true, as faith ensure you believe in god even though you have no evidence and you can not disprove what Peter claims

How do you feel about the possibility that God is telling people to murder others ?

H15 FSC

metafore , but abig group of people that do what they want coz they think its right ,
sound like a gang to me ,

dunketh

Nope. Because if you believe in god you tend to believe that he wouldn't tell someone to kill others. Agreed you cannot disprove it but you can try to attribute it to Sutcliffe's own delusions rather than genuine instructions from God.
All this talk of gangs is making me want to watch 'The Warriors' again..

R5FORD

iTrader: (1)

if what they think is right dosent effect you..whats the problem.

Kam B

a god telling to murder others? nah, dont think so - the human individual themself is telling themself to kill others.

Punkie

Thanks Stu...

Sorry if it's creating more workload for you...

R5FORD

iTrader: (1)

if people who kill say they are doing it in the name of god then they may be mistaking god as the devil.. with goods theres evil.. theres god so theres also the devil.

Kam B

agreed

H15 FSC

it effects everyone!!
blowing up buses, planes, killing thousands of innocent people coz they think its right,
yeah not all religious groups do this now...... BUT at some point they all have!!

Stu @ M Developments

iTrader: (12)

Dont be sorry, thats what the forums for.

Turbocabbie

But how do you know that he is deluded ?
If there is the possibility of god, there must be the possibility that he talks to people... Why not Sutcliffe ?

Religious text is translated from ancient text as with all things which is translated the meaning from one language to another changes, this is without questioning our understanding of ancient text... The books may be simply mis-interpreted by man.

Paul Eggleton

THats why the counter arguement is called evolution Stu. Over millions and millions of years. That Guiness add explains it all

But seriously, as someone who was brought up with science I find evolution is the most plausible answer.

Jim Galbally

here's one to add to the mix... what about cults and extremist groups that use indoctrination techniques. how does that mix into the "everyone can beleive what they want" mix?

i am an atheist, and i've been educated in most of the world's main religions, so understand religion pretty well, i have always beleived that it is every persons right to beleive what they want, and i dont have a problem with it.

then i got caught up with jehovah's witnesses (girlfriend is one)

really confused my views it's hard to stand by a "let them do what they want" viewpoint, when you can see people being brainwashed. my current situation is one of the hardest tests in my life that i've faced, and TBH i dont really know how to deal with it stand back and watch the one you love get tricked into a web of deceit, or interfere and go against the moral right of "non-interference"

Turbocabbie

Why is there not the possibility that God can kill ?

Where is the cross over point where something becomes evil and who decides this.

To many recent terrorist attacks are evil as many innocent people loose lives yet the people committing these acts believe they are just and good and more importantly they will be rewarded by god for doing them.

Why is the possibility that what you consider evil, wicked such as Sutcliffe or Religious attacks something that many religious people can not accept may be the word of god.

By having faith and no proof of his existence you must accept the possibility that the words and actions are not ones you find acceptable.

How can you be certain these people have got it wrong, they believe in god

Jim Galbally

PS the bible's explination of creation does NOT exclude the big bang / evolution, despite the views of some religious groups.

example. the world was created in Seven DAYS.

well the original word for DAY is the same as the word for AGE/PERIOD OF TIME

so if you assume the word was just translated incorrectly and that they meant the world was created in Seven ages. it makes more sense

Graham S1

He did it several times in the Old Testament.

dunketh

I dont know and I can't 100% say that god didnt indeed talk to sutcliffe.
You can only theorise based on what we're told about god being a generally loving chap, natural disasters not withstanding...

I'm sure that a lot of the old testament stuff was never meant to be interpreted literally. Dont forget they were trying to explain the creation of the world to people thousands of years before modern science in the simplest possible terms.
I'm sure theres a hell of a lot of artistic licence in the bible.

So long as there are stupid people there will always be other people willing to exploit them.

Jim Galbally

it's not just "stupid" people tho. The Nazis are the best example in history that widespread indoctrination can and will happen. No way every single nazi was stupid

R5FORD

iTrader: (1)

noone in the world is innocnet..

angel24

Religion is there for people who need it. It can be like counselling, someone who will listen when others have given up.

My personal beliefs are somewhat diluted. I believe there is something after life, as like someone posted. I just can't comprehend being so alive, and then not! But my opinions, and my knowledge on the subject is not strong enough to ever decide if there is or isn't a God of any kind.

Ad4m RST

I'm a Deist....

I was brought up a Christian but free thought has pretty much cleared it all out to put it very simply.

One point though, mans single biggest imposed killer isn't religion/bullets/nukes/diseases its...Motor oil

Religion may be a load of shite, but 'God Knows' ths planet needs something

Iain Mac

I have no religious beliefs but think that those who do should be allowed to get on with their thing as long as they don't start trying to tell me or anyone else how we should live to their "standards". Why do Church of England bishops get to sit in the House of Lords and help make laws that govern the rest of us?

If there is a "supreme being" there is only one of them and we just have a multitude of names for him (God, Allah, Jehovah, etc), so having so many different varieties of religion seems pointless. Especially when one flavour says their god is better than another, and that's when trouble breaks out. It's all so pointless, like arguing about whether grass is green or the sky is blue - just the shades differ.

Paul Eggleton

Exactly, so like most sensible people you get on with life, treat people how you'd like to be treated and job done.

It's not hard concept to follow, but it frustrates me immensely that religion is sold as the moral highway based on doctrine that's largely irrelevant and downright detrimental to todays society - e.g. contraception vs. Aids is an obvious example.

Jim Galbally

doctrine pisses me the f**k off.

how can you literally interpret a document that has been passed down for hundreds / thousands of years in the days BEFORE photocopiers.

anyone that understands how these documents were copied (and before then how things were relayed by word of mouth!) could never interpret them word for word literally.

here's an example, did you know the FIRST time the gospels of the new testament were actualyl written down were circa 400-600AD? thats 400 years where people have been passing on the teachings by word of mouth! in a game of chineese whispers it normally takes 30seconds for somone to fuck it all up, imagine what 400 years does to days worth of reading material