DanCossie

iTrader: (1)

Glad i aint having kids lol.........religion...wat a load of bollox...i will go on fire if i walk in a church the amount of sins i have commited accordinging to some religions lol

Turbocabbie

i think they should raise the age of abortion to about 20 years old as there some teenagers I would like to see terminated

Chip

iTrader: (3)

ginger ones?

Chip

iTrader: (3)

dvid

PMSL

I have a lot of involvement with children with disabilities (fostering involvement not 'one finger, one bum keep moving' ) so find it very hard to believe in "god"

That and its a load of made up bollocks anyway

Edit, as for abortion - wrong in all cases apart from a victim of rape

DanW@FastFord

iTrader: (1)

It should stay at 24 weeks.

If you were told at the 20 week scan that your baby is severely disabled and their brain has not developed normally, then there are not many options open to you. If that happens a few days before Christmas you get sent home and told to come back in the new year!!

If anyone has been in that position then they will understand why it needs to be 24 weeks.

And don't for a single second bring God into it. That cunt has caused enough suffering in the world without giving him a say in abortions too!!!!

DanW@FastFord

iTrader: (1)

In essence I agree with that, but I also feel VERY strongly that no child should be brought into this world unless it is expressly wanted by the mother (and preferably father too).

angel24

"Typically, a vasectomy takes 30 to 45 minutes. In the conventional approach, the skin on one side of the scrotum is first numbed with a local anesthetic, then the physician makes one or two small incisions, or cuts, into the scrotum. The vas is cut, and a small piece may be removed. Next, the doctor ties the cut ends and sews up the scrotal incision. The entire procedure is then repeated on the other side."

That should sort it out Reversible too!

Dicko&Vacant

iTrader: (3)

totally agree with what youve said there, but imo that should be the only circumstances it should be allowed, if the baby had signs of not developing properly, and that its quality of life would be drastically affected.

I do not think its ethical to allow someone to have an abortion at 24 weeks just because they dont want it. As it could have a perfectly good chance of survival its nothing short of barbaric to kill a perfectly healthy baby.

Sarah

foreigneRS

that's not true ime

Chip

iTrader: (3)

That doesnt solve the problem of unwanted UK pregnancies though cause UK sluts will get pregnant on holiday, it HAS to be the women that are sterilised.

Dicko&Vacant

iTrader: (3)

sorry, i just thought that it wasnt an actual period when you are on the 7 days of no pill as the one i used to take it states you have a " breakthrough bleed " not a " menstrual period"

DanW@FastFord

iTrader: (1)

It could be argued that it's equally barbaric to bring a child into this world who is not wanted/loved by their parent/s.

Totally see your point though, and it's what makes the issue so difficult.

Dicko&Vacant

iTrader: (3)

yeah i agree with that too, its cruel to bring a child into the world if it truly isnt wanted.
Unfortunately we cant please everyone and nothing is ever as black and white as it seems

Chip

iTrader: (3)

Once everyone is sterilised and a child license is needed, there will be NO unwanted children ever again

Turbocabbie

Guess its all down to where your morality lies, some people consider it barbaric to kill animals for food... Especially factory farmed animals such as Chickens - Do you eat chicken, have you purchased Chicken from Tesco ?? - Does this make us who do Barbaric

Where do you draw the line? - I think its down to personal morality

Im morally content with factory farmed chicken and abortion at 24 weeks personally

Dicko&Vacant

iTrader: (3)

i buy free range

Chip

iTrader: (3)

Most "free range" these days sadly is just marketting speak for chickens that live in a barn crammed in on top of each other with 23 hours a day of redlight to make them grow quickly by thinking its always daylight but without being excited by seeing the blood of other chickens, but done with the door open onto a cold hard concrete floor with no food or shelter.

NOTHING like free range should be, but legal for them to call it that, its barely any better for the hens that battery farming though TBH

Porkie

iTrader: (1)

Turbocabbie

Does this matter to the Chicken, is it any less barbaric to kill a free range chicken than a factory farmed chicken in the eyes of a vegan ?

One just has a better quality of life, if you believe killing animals for food is morally wrong you feel this way about cows, sheep, horses no matter of how they are farmed.

What you find morally acceptable is a personal thing like views on abortion

Chip

iTrader: (3)

If you believe killing animals for food is wrong, then you havent got a fucking clue how planet earth works IMHO

truthordare

Thats why we are at the top of the food chain, yum yum, as for abortion, I think 24 weeks is a long time as the baby starts moving independently at 20ish weeks (kicks and stuff)but the whole debate of whether it should be allowed at all is surely down to the two people who created the fetus(sp) I was young when I had my son, not a gymslip mum but not so far away (awaits abuse) I was working full time and had my own place (rented admittedly but you have to start somewhere) and was in a relationship with the father, the scenario mentioned a few posts ago happened to me, I was on the pill and my periods never stopped, I only found out I was pregnant because I went to the doctors with a tummy bug as I kept throwing up at the smell of coffee, Doc did a test and sent me for a scan, I was four months pregnant, decided that this was too far along for a termination and had a son, I worked all through the pregnancy and went back to work full time after he was born and have always done so. I couldn't have done it at 20 weeks so 24 must be horrendous. If the baby is unwanted though and the parents can't provide it with a decent home and life it should be terminated. As for the god aspect, show me proof and I'll subscribe to your point of view.

Debs

markk

iTrader: (2)

fook me !

i waited till i was 34 nearly to have my 1st child, until then i deemed myself not emotionally or finacially ready to support my son for as long as it takes, now i can and he will want for nothing, nor will we sponge from the government to feed/clothe/lookafter etc etc

well done, i have not read the rest of the post but this sums it all up for me.

danneth

i had been with my ex 5 years when she fell pregnant as we was both working and in a stable relationship we was both over the moon etc etc... then 2 months later i found out she had decided to abort the baby without telling me IMO she had no right to do this if she didn't want the baby then fair enough but i did and would have happily gone our seperates taking the child with me..

some abortions i can accept but like my ex its just a joke end of the day she killed a child because she decided she didn't want it, the law should change in many ways one been well before 24 weeks

Turbocabbie

Im happy killing animals for food, sport and if they shit on my car

I was just responding to the statement regarding abortion at at 24 weeks being :
I think your views what is barbaric depends upon your morality. A sandle wearing, tree hugging, cycling, green voting, vegan may consider killing for food barbaric due to where their morality lies, but normal people would not see the food chain as being barbaric.

What people think is morally acceptable is a personal thing like views on abortion

Personally I support it all, Abortion at 24 weeks, Fox hunting, Factory farming the whole damn lot

DanW@FastFord

iTrader: (1)

What everyone seems to be assuming is that women are routinely having abortions up to 24weeks. I'd wager that a tiny tiny proportion of abortions at that date are NOT health related. But the Pro-life zealots seize on it and make out that women are just popping to the docs, and popping out the foetus.

For those who don't know, if you want an abortion at that stage you have to go through full labour and childbirth. You give birth to a dead baby. No one on this planet would enter into that lightly.

**Claire**

I think some of you have very extreme views which I really don't understand at all.

I think that the 24 week limit is OK but only in exceptional circumstances. The medical profession believe that a pregnancy isn't viable until 24 weeks and if a baby is born before 24 weeks they will not intervein and they will not give any medical assistance to the baby to keep it alive.

In a few rare occasions babies that have been born before 24 weeks i.e. 22/23 weeks have been known to survive, some with no adverse affects later on in life and some that are permenantly disabled due to their prematurity.

As most of you will know I'm pregnant with my 2nd child and I'm in my 28th week now. If I had been told that their was something wrong with my unborn baby then I would have considered all the options open to me and I would have made the right decision for me and the baby.

Some tests etc aren't available until 16-18 weeks so in these circumstances a late termination will be inevitable should there be something wrong and if that is what the parents decide.

Now here comes the shock horror, I'm a catholic and yes I do believe in God and I do have my faith. I don't ram it down other peoples throats and I don't use my religion to explain mass disasters or use it to preach or try and convert others to 'follow' my way of thinking.

I'm actually very proud that I am a catholic and I'm proud that I do have my 'belief' system as personally my education and upbringing have made me the person that I am today and that includes my religion. I'm not an extremeist who lives my life by the bible but I do believe that my opinions are fair and objective.

I was always teased by people where I lived because I went to a different school and I used to go to church every Sunday. Funny though, when I look at them now. Half of the girls I know from home are on benefits with 3-4 kids living in council accommodation bleeding the state dry.

I may have had a child when I was 20 and been a single parent by the time I was 23 but at least I can say I did it standing on my own two feet without the help of the 'state'.

Oh and as for steralising all women, what utter pish!!

Jemma

IMO 24 weeks is too long other than for medical reasons.

Obvisouly some people dont find out till late on, ie falling pregnant on the pill or implant for example and not having regualar periods.

But surely it cant take 24 weeks to decide if you want to keep the baby or not, and each day its growing and moving inside of you.. well obvisouly it can for some people, but i just cant see how lol.

More sex education needs to be given in school.. when i was there we only had a couple of lessons. People are having sex younger nowadays (or is it me getting older i dont know) so things need to be done sooner. Maybe showing ppl what ppl go thru who have abortions? Tell them, they will die or there d*ck will drop off if they have unprocted sex? .. ok bit too far haha

Chip

iTrader: (3)

If everyone was sterilised then at least when all these 14 year old slappers are busy fucking people in exchange for a white lightning then hard working people like Stu above wouldnt be funding a child no one wants as a result of a fuck for a can of lager someoen did want

XRdodgybird

Well, it can happen, it did with me. It depends what's going on in your life at the time.

I personally didn't know or realise that I was pregnant with Enya-Mae until I was around 15 weeks pregnant. My mum had passed away the October before, I'd quit my job because I worked with a complete set of bitches and had some finances behind me. I set about tearing my new home to pieces and getting everything organised with electricians, builders, etc. I was working more or less full time on the house myself, and it was only when it was nearing completion that I realised that I hadn't had a monthly event for a while. I wouldn't have found it abnormal anyway, as I had been on a contraceptive for god knows how many months previous to it that totally stops periods.

So when I did do a test and it was positive, the first scan I was sent to two weeks later confirmed that I was 17 weeks pregnant. Three weeks later I had a 20 week scan which confirmed everything was okay with baby, it was only after this scan that I actually felt her move. Anything that I had experienced prior to that I had put down to poor diet as I was eating takeways all the time as the flat I was renting whilst I was sorting the house out had a kitchen so tiny it didn't inspire to make anything more than a cuppa in it.

So it can and does happen.

Stu @ M Developments

iTrader: (12)

Fair argument sarah, but i still feel its our responsility to find out sooner rather than later and we cant use "I didnt know" as a defense. Ignorance isnt allowed as a defense in law, and maybe it shoudlnt be allowed in this arena either.

Hows this for a suggestion.
Drop the limit somewhat, and make pregnancy testers available free of carge to all women, that way it can be drummed into all sexually active females to test once a week, regardless. I mean, lets face it, its not excatly hard to do is it? You will be taking a piss every morning anyway and the testers will be cheaper to the tax payer than the pregnancies forced to go full term due to missing the abortion cut off point!

XRdodgybird

I can see where you are coming from, but the day they make a half decent pregnancy test for free that you can do in your own home without having to go stand about in the chemist I think will be a long way off. It aint just that, unless you are desperate to get pregnant, a pregnancy test aint the sort of thing that you just have laying around the house... My neighbour used to buy boatloads of cheap ones off ebay when she was trying for a baby, they just aint so reliable.

Punkie

Home pregnancy testing kits are not very reliable...and the ones that are cost about Ł10 a time iirc...

Getting an appointment at the doctors is never easy...sometimes it can take up to a week to get an advance appointment at my doctors because they are so busy.

Those people who think the limit for abortions are too high...and would like to see it lowered to 20 weeks or below...does this count for abortions on medical grounds too?

Mrs T

like i said in a post before if people have there scan at 20 weeks and find things wrong then yeah i agree with abortions at that stage..


what i dont agree with if people know full well they are preg and dont do anything about it till really late then go for one

Punkie

What if circumstances change i.e. the woman finds out the father of the child is abusing the kids that they have at the moment...

The option of aborting after 16 weeks is not something to be taken lightly anyway is its often the case that you have to go through full labour to a dead (or dying) foetus.

I think something like 1.5% of abortions are carried out between 20-24 weeks at present...thats a couple of hundred (c200,000 abortions each year iirc from some stats I have read)

Diamonds.

iTrader: (2)

if your partner was abusing your kids you have... why would you get rid of the kid. surely you would report the bloke and still have the kid

Ryan_3

abortion= kiling end of! you are being an obstacle to that innocent baby to live his/her life!

Punkie

Guilt, Fear...any number of reasons...

Its sometimes not easy to get away from an abusive relationship.

stonehavencossie

do you have a stutter ?