ImaRacing 700

At what AFR would a YB engine melt in 4th gear and how long have you got...for example if i saw say 14.0+ for 1 second before letting off is that gonna damage the engine or have i got much more time?..I understand in the first 3 gears you are not under load long enuff to melt.

I am aiming at around 12.0 AFR @ 1.6bar held...is that too rich?

RigPig

fucked if i know M8 but god luck with it

Stu @ M Developments

iTrader: (12)

You would be better off mapping her to hold 13.4:1 at WOT tailing to a slightly richer 13.2:1 just towards the rev limiter pal.

Dont exceed 12.9:1 at any time or pockets of fuel may cause localised detonation.

Stu @ M Developments

iTrader: (12)

Damn... i cant do it...


















Ignore that terribly dangerous advice Phil... i was forgetting for a minute that i actually quite like you now.. roflol

Karl

ROFLOL

foreigneRS

what EGT are you getting Phil?

JesseT

I was first like WHAT!?
No idea for how long would the engine last. Depends on too many variables like back pressure, etc. I would map it to 11.5 or there abouts for that amount of boost. You might get a bit more power by mapping to ~12.0, but the exhaust gas temperature wil be noticeably higher.

ImaRacing 700

Stu.....i am sufficiently enuff clued up to realise you were talking bollocks But thanks for your input

Bobby Singh

12.5:1 is the figure I believe Phil

Bobby

ImaRacing 700

12.5 seems a little lean for a beginner map..i'd rather go a tad richer and then re do the fueling a bit at a time.

Stu any genuine input?

Stu @ M Developments

iTrader: (12)

Il give your thread as much genuine input as you gave my reply in the traders post Phil..... fair?

ImaRacing 700

After you said you wouldnt deal with me anymore...i thought best NOT reply,as you say i have NO idea about business...your right...cause my private sales have not gone up at all..not one customer...and in doing it for no gain has lost me your business....

I will sum up the customers on PF...when you say cheap parts they think you mean 99% off Dont know how you real pros deal with it.

Stu @ M Developments

iTrader: (12)

Nor do i at times Phil

ECU Monitor Enthusiast

iTrader: (1)

Phil, aim for 12.0 on boost then the fuelling will be reasonably safe.

ImaRacing 700

So to the original question...any answers?...Or is it cause i is asking

Stavros

Is "reasonably" safe good enough tho? Id want "safe" not "reasonably" as that to me means it might not blow up, not it wont (I mean due to fueling, rather than any other shonkyness)

Jesse mentioned 11.5

I wont mention owt as ive no idea

JRST

confusing

Mike Rainbird

iTrader: (3)

Phil,
I think 12.0 to 12.5 is safe, as this is what Harvey / Ahmed usually map to....

foreigneRS

i'll ask again - what EGT's are you getting Phil?

i don't know much about mapping, but it seems to me that on different engines with different turbo's and different exhaust systems you can have a different in cylinder temperature depending on the AFR. an AFR that is safe for one combination may give a dangerously high in cylinder temperature for another.

isn't it the in cylinder temperature that you need to worry about rather than the actual AFR?

ECU Monitor Enthusiast

iTrader: (1)

Reasonably safe means just that.

There are so many other factors to contend with and fuel is just one of them.
Fuelling can be spot on but you can still melt an engine in other ways.

================================================== =

Phil

Please accept these following comments as "friendly" advice......

I applaud you for having a go but your engine is high power and
will be easy to destroy if you are not carefull.
I urge you to let someone with experience sort out the high boost
mapping.

My problem is that if your engine melts, I will get the bad publicity
as my ecu is controlling the engine and from my experience,
most are looking for ammo to fire at me and you just may provide it
for them unintentionally.
Not everyone understands that the ECU is just a tool to provide a job
as instructed by the mapper.

Trouble is, Level 6, Level 8 and P8 have melted many engines but
people still use them.

Can you see my dilemma ?

Disabled Account

Phil, on the other question that you asked "how long have you got" (if the fueling is lean on boost).......Ahmed told me that the first 8 - 12 seconds the engine cylinder/piston gets very hot - but can survive with just mild det marks if you realise and lift at this stage..........HOWEVER if you dont realise or lift then the next 8 -12 seconds will hole a piston - i.e. the temp in the cylinder will rise sharply enough to melt the piston

Been there BTW

ImaRacing 700

Simon...i "paid" for pro help only to find they knew nothing about the S8 after saying they did

Simon worry not...as said i have gone very safe on all settings...BUT i am a little alarmed as you seem to have not a lot of faith in S8 Aslong as it does what i ask it to...i am happy..is this ecu gonna do something i havent asked it then?

Doug cheers...so plenty of time aslong as i get someone else to shout BACK OFF when the AFR readings go lean....i can hear the det hopefully to back off.
Pistons also come into it...a genuine one has longer than a mahle one before it holes!!!

ForeignRS i have no gas temp...i have not been told i need it as i am using an acceptable boost level not to need it...afr/det is the major factor and the det cans would pick up high cylinder temps as this would cause det?Plus if the charge air gets too hot it backs the timing off....

Disabled Account

You'd get an extra 3 - 4 seconds at the very most Phil.....dont go there!!!!!!

ECU Monitor Enthusiast

iTrader: (1)

Phil,
I can assure you, I have total faith in the S8 to deliver what is programmed in to it.

In fairness to Karl, I probally did not explain good enough how the 8 injector
mode works and can see how my expanation to him ended up as the
map that would not run.
Also, Karl does have experience of the S8 as you know he mapped BROMS's car.

Still, as I said before I DO wish you Good Luck with this.

CozzyBrom

have to say immy karl does know his stuff lastest 3 track days now all day revvin to 8800 and i have had no problems wat so ever
i think its down to the person on the keyboard

simon stil no ecus any ideas

foreigneRS

high in cylinder temps can cause det, and det causes high in cylinder temps, so to me it seems quite important to monitor in cylinder temps (or as best you can by using EGT sensors at the port outlets), whatever the boost level.

ImaRacing 700

Broomy it shows how dumb you are when even Karl (your mapper) says it was his fault Keep it up mate your potting shed days are showing thru again

ForeigneRS hence why i use "DET" cans

foreigneRS

do they work? have you advanced the timing on purpose (off boost of course) to check if you easily hear it?

have you got 4 microphones, so one for each cylinder?

i didn't see what you're using. did you post it up?

i'm interested as i will be doing the same with mine and an S8 in the future (but with only 4 injectors so should be a little easier using the supplied 4 greens base map).

ImaRacing 700

ForeignRS a little extreme there!!!..I use 2 methods that are from tuners and its not my place to say how they are made......det sounds like stones hitting the rear wheel arch...its highly audible!.......and on listening so far i have heard no sound difference between off boost on boost...i was told i would know when it happens..although like you say i can put some advance in to hear the sound..which i may do to be safe!

foreigneRS

highly audible? with the right equipment it should be, what are you using?

ImaRacing 700

If i told you the2 methods i was using then everyone would know how to make them...and i aint sure if i am allowed to say as its what actual tuners use!

foreigneRS

and "actual tuners" would be upset to know that you can buy these off the shelf from places like machine mart and sealey, or make one by modifying a bloody hearing aid would they?

you come on here with your diy story wanting to get information out of other people, and then you won't share it.

just tell me, i can handle the truth. you use 2 plastic cups and a length of stringdon't you?

Mike Rainbird

iTrader: (3)

FRS,
It is just like a stethoscope - a tube for each ear connected to a headset that then goes to a single tube that is connected to the side of a block using a half flattened (the bit that bolts to the head) piece of copper tube. The other bit has the rubber tube of the det cans inserted in it (which is the bit that makes Phil go all nostalgic - inserting rubber tubes in places - in fact Phil has det tested his own arse - it was okay until the point that he believed he had to venture outside, at which point the "det" was audible without cans ).

ImaRacing 700

ForiegnRS...well if you can buy them readily why you asking me to divulge info Go and buy them ....its irrellevant what I use.

foreigneRS

cheers mike. i've seen these before but didn't realise people still used such antiquated methods, let alone "actual tuners"

i'm sure he had to use a much smaller bore of rubber tube for the engine than he did for his anus

Mike Rainbird

iTrader: (3)

FRS,
There has yet to be an electronic system for detecting det that is better than the human ear .

CozzyBrom

immy get a egt and check each port
i need help in my pottin shed
but could you be trusted to put the right seeds in the right pots

foreigneRS

i'm not talking about using an electonic system for detecting the det - just to amplify it and transmit it from the source (the engine) to the detecting device (the lug holes)

by using microphones you can have one for each cylinder and have them in stereo so that you can always listen to 2 at once and have a switch box to switch to the other 2 easily.

i would want to be sure that i am checking the cylinder that is most likely to suffer first. and with 4 micrphones and 4 in port EGT sensors i think i can.

if you haven't heard it yet, how can you be sure that it hasn't happened and that your "det cans" are working?

ImaRacing 700

You can only try it and then listen for any new noises appearing..certain methods produce different sounds....

As for the microphone idea...unfortunately it picks up to much other noise imo..you can hear injectors/cams to loudly......using a primitive method gets you a better idea....you only need to put it around the middle as if you got det thru bad/wrong mapping it will affect all cylinders.