T4 vs T34
14-09-2007, 11:53 AM
#7
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Originally Posted by Nash
Am i allowed to Vote? 
staffi
Not on about Dingys no mate, just say 2 saphs one with either spec in a straight line drag starting at say 30mph to what ever.
staffi
Not on about Dingys no mate, just say 2 saphs one with either spec in a straight line drag starting at say 30mph to what ever.
When does your T4 come on boost Nash?? my 38 is around 3.7k then pulls like fook all the way..
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14-09-2007, 11:55 AM
#8
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18 psi is 18 psi no matter what turbo it comes from...
and 27 psi is 27 psi.
the only reason we run T4's is cause they can handle the higher boost more easily than the smaller turbos.
IMO the t34 car running 27 psi will destroy the T4 car
and 27 psi is 27 psi.
the only reason we run T4's is cause they can handle the higher boost more easily than the smaller turbos.
IMO the t34 car running 27 psi will destroy the T4 car
14-09-2007, 11:56 AM
#9
Originally Posted by rapidcossie
18 psi is 18 psi no matter what turbo it comes from...
and 27 psi is 27 psi.
and 27 psi is 27 psi.
That statement shows a TOTAL lack of any even basic grasp of the concepts involved, so if you really dont know anything at all, it might be better if you dont comment.
14-09-2007, 11:58 AM
#10
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Originally Posted by Chip-3Door
Originally Posted by rapidcossie
18 psi is 18 psi no matter what turbo it comes from...
and 27 psi is 27 psi.
and 27 psi is 27 psi.
That statement shows a TOTAL lack of any even basic grasp of the concepts involved, so if you really dont know anything at all, it might be better if you dont comment.
if the pressure is being measured in the manifold how can there be more air at same pressure depending on the turbo?
14-09-2007, 12:01 PM
#11
T4 at 18psi Vrs T34 on greens running 28psi.
No matter what the T34 car did even if i was off boost and in a wrong gear i was sat on there arse 3-4 seconds later flashing to move over. The T34 cars was RR's at APT and made 325bhp, maxed out on greens.
I could just about keep up with Richies car down the straights at Donington last year, but he was quicker. That was on my old fucked engine, running super rich and only 18 psi[actuator bracket snapped on the way there].
No matter what the T34 car did even if i was off boost and in a wrong gear i was sat on there arse 3-4 seconds later flashing to move over. The T34 cars was RR's at APT and made 325bhp, maxed out on greens.
I could just about keep up with Richies car down the straights at Donington last year, but he was quicker. That was on my old fucked engine, running super rich and only 18 psi[actuator bracket snapped on the way there].
14-09-2007, 12:05 PM
#12
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Originally Posted by Nash
T4 at 18psi Vrs T34 on greens running 28psi.
No matter what the T34 car did even if i was off boost and in a wrong gear i was sat on there arse 3-4 seconds later flashing to move over. The T34 cars was RR's at APT and made 325bhp, maxed out on greens.
I could just about keep up with Richies car down the straights at Donington last year, but he was quicker. That was on my old fucked engine, running super rich and only 18 psi[actuator bracket snapped on the way there].
No matter what the T34 car did even if i was off boost and in a wrong gear i was sat on there arse 3-4 seconds later flashing to move over. The T34 cars was RR's at APT and made 325bhp, maxed out on greens.
I could just about keep up with Richies car down the straights at Donington last year, but he was quicker. That was on my old fucked engine, running super rich and only 18 psi[actuator bracket snapped on the way there].
That's suprised me, greens maxed out at just 325..
14-09-2007, 12:13 PM
#14
Originally Posted by rapidcossie
Originally Posted by Chip-3Door
Originally Posted by rapidcossie
18 psi is 18 psi no matter what turbo it comes from...
and 27 psi is 27 psi.
and 27 psi is 27 psi.
That statement shows a TOTAL lack of any even basic grasp of the concepts involved, so if you really dont know anything at all, it might be better if you dont comment.
if the pressure is being measured in the manifold how can there be more air at same pressure depending on the turbo?
Where does the pressure in the manifold come from?
The turbo yeah?
Specifically the compressor of the turbo.
And the compressor of the turbo is driven by what?
The shaft, which is driven by the hotside of the turbo.
Now for a bigger turbo that shaft doesnt need to be going very quickly for it to move the same amount of air (think big desk fan and small desk fan here)
And what drives the hotside of the turbo?
Exhaust gas, and to drive it at mega RPM it means pushing the blades hard, where does the pressure come from to do this?
From the exhaust housing (and exhaust manifold therefore)
So on the smaller turbo there will be more pressure in the exhaust manifold.
Now given that we know that pressure in the inlet helps air into the engine, what do we think will happen with pressure in the exhaust side? Its going to hinder it of course.
Now that means that the engine isnt going to empty its cylinders as well, so when it comes to it breathing in, its already got some extra gas in there to begin with, so it is less able to consume the new air from the inlet manifold as a result.
Also, the pistons pushing up trying to get rid of that exhaust gas are seeing more resistance as they try and force air out into a pressurised manifold, so you get increased pumping losses from that as well.
14-09-2007, 02:18 PM
#18
my answer would have been the T4 would produce more power, remember its not a question of how driveable the car is....
given the T4 we know can flow much much more air than the T34 ,and itself create less exhaust restriction, and make its peak power at higher rpm
imo 18psi at the limiter from a T4 would still make a nice power output
given the T4 we know can flow much much more air than the T34 ,and itself create less exhaust restriction, and make its peak power at higher rpm
imo 18psi at the limiter from a T4 would still make a nice power output
14-09-2007, 04:44 PM
#27
20K+ Super Poster.
The greens will only be maxed out if running a lesser duty cycle, I have been at a engine dyno(to DIN std) next to a cossie lump on greens that did 377 all day long, and is way more accurate than any RR.
This was a repeated test run, to test certain new components, I was just there having a nosey.
Of course they are actually capable of producing well over 600BHP, by batch firing.
tabetha
This was a repeated test run, to test certain new components, I was just there having a nosey.
Of course they are actually capable of producing well over 600BHP, by batch firing.
tabetha
14-09-2007, 05:09 PM
#28
10K+ Poster!!
Originally Posted by Chip-3Door
Originally Posted by rapidcossie
Originally Posted by Chip-3Door
Originally Posted by rapidcossie
18 psi is 18 psi no matter what turbo it comes from...
and 27 psi is 27 psi.
and 27 psi is 27 psi.
That statement shows a TOTAL lack of any even basic grasp of the concepts involved, so if you really dont know anything at all, it might be better if you dont comment.
if the pressure is being measured in the manifold how can there be more air at same pressure depending on the turbo?
Where does the pressure in the manifold come from?
The turbo yeah?
Specifically the compressor of the turbo.
And the compressor of the turbo is driven by what?
The shaft, which is driven by the hotside of the turbo.
Now for a bigger turbo that shaft doesnt need to be going very quickly for it to move the same amount of air (think big desk fan and small desk fan here)
And what drives the hotside of the turbo?
Exhaust gas, and to drive it at mega RPM it means pushing the blades hard, where does the pressure come from to do this?
From the exhaust housing (and exhaust manifold therefore)
So on the smaller turbo there will be more pressure in the exhaust manifold.
Now given that we know that pressure in the inlet helps air into the engine, what do we think will happen with pressure in the exhaust side? Its going to hinder it of course.
Now that means that the engine isnt going to empty its cylinders as well, so when it comes to it breathing in, its already got some extra gas in there to begin with, so it is less able to consume the new air from the inlet manifold as a result.
Also, the pistons pushing up trying to get rid of that exhaust gas are seeing more resistance as they try and force air out into a pressurised manifold, so you get increased pumping losses from that as well.
if i dont understand about back pressure etc then why was I one of the first to have a proper exhaust system?
14-09-2007, 05:12 PM
#29
10K+ Poster!!
Originally Posted by Chip-3Door
Originally Posted by rapidcossie
18 psi is 18 psi no matter what turbo it comes from...
and 27 psi is 27 psi.
and 27 psi is 27 psi.
That statement shows a TOTAL lack of any even basic grasp of the concepts involved, so if you really dont know anything at all, it might be better if you dont comment.
WTF is with the attitude Chip?
You could have said something like " Euan you arent quite correct there. Turbos work in many ways etc etc and have a specific relelationship with engine blah blah"
instead you basically tell me to fucking butt out and that I cant post.
14-09-2007, 05:47 PM
#30
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I think mikes car made 350 hp @ 15 psi @ wheels on a T4 on AVAs rollers for comparison sake. Euan dont sweat it, you car is coming on all good from from what i have seen on here
14-09-2007, 05:51 PM
#31
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Originally Posted by dumped
I think mikes car made 350 hp @ 15 psi @ wheels on a T4 on AVAs rollers for comparison sake. Euan dont sweat it, you car is coming on all good from from what i have seen on here
I dont claim to be any kind of expert and yeah maybe im wrong but there are nicer ways to tell people they are wrong.
14-09-2007, 07:48 PM
#34
Originally Posted by twoblacklines
not if your advising people bullshit 
Apologies if I hurt your feelings Euan, but you stumbled on a phrase that happens to be a pet hate of mine that sums up everything that someone doesnt understand about engines and turbos when they say "X psi is X psi"
Offence not intended, but you really should have known better given that your own car makes more power on a T4 pound for pound than it did on a T34
14-09-2007, 08:30 PM
#37
Advanced PassionFord User
Originally Posted by Nash
Originally Posted by Stu.H
Mines quicker and not even a cosworth
i'm running 25psi on t34.48
14-09-2007, 08:30 PM
#38
10K+ Poster!!
Originally Posted by Nash
Originally Posted by Stu.H
Mines quicker and not even a cosworth
belieeeeevvvveeeeee
14-09-2007, 08:34 PM
#39
10K+ Poster!!
Originally Posted by Stu.H
Originally Posted by Nash
Originally Posted by Stu.H
Mines quicker and not even a cosworth
belieeeeevvvveeeeee
14-09-2007, 08:37 PM
#40
PassionFord Post Troll
i know boost for boost my car with the same engine at the same boost on both blowers...
One makes 380 and the other 480....
26psi LOL....
T4 is much faster LOL at same boost.....
One makes 380 and the other 480....
26psi LOL....
T4 is much faster LOL at same boost.....