Nurburgring Insurance
08-03-2007, 10:35 AM
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Nurburgring Insurance
Hi guys
I know this is a repost, but were any conclusions drawn on the position currently?
My understanding is that any insurers irrespective of clauses has to provide the basic level of insurance for driving in Europe (ie 3rd party only). As such, irrespective of what they say, whilst the Nordschlief (forgive spelling) remains a road in the eyes of the German Government, it remains a place where you are at the very least 3rd party insured.
My further understanding is that the only way out of this is if you tell your insurers that you are going to the nurburgring, that they can then refuse to continue your insurance for the period of your holiday, thereby requiring you to take insurance elsewhere.
I know that insurers work on the basis of something relating to 'full disclosure' of information, stating that it is your responsibility to disclose all relevant information.
My interpretation of the law is that if you policy confirms that you are covered at the minimum level in Europe, and you are only requiring this level of cover, then you have no need to advise them of which roads that you are driving on, thereby satisfying this in the eyes of the law.
I have further heard that currently insurers are confused as to how to deal with this situation given that clauses excluding the Nurburgring do not appear to hold up in law because of the above, and as such are using 'discouragement' tactics to reduce the overall number of claims. Essentially - tell people that they wouldnt be insured (despite the fact that by law they would be) and they wont go.
Clearly still a massively grey area, but with the trip looming, I was curious as to how people have managed to resolve this.
Has anybody found any insurers that are actually prepared to put nuts on line and provide additional cover specifically? Or are they reluctant to provide this as they would effectively be charging you twice for a service that they already have to provide by law? (Thereby opening up a completely separate can of worms for future claims).
All input gratefully received as always
I know this is a repost, but were any conclusions drawn on the position currently?
My understanding is that any insurers irrespective of clauses has to provide the basic level of insurance for driving in Europe (ie 3rd party only). As such, irrespective of what they say, whilst the Nordschlief (forgive spelling) remains a road in the eyes of the German Government, it remains a place where you are at the very least 3rd party insured.
My further understanding is that the only way out of this is if you tell your insurers that you are going to the nurburgring, that they can then refuse to continue your insurance for the period of your holiday, thereby requiring you to take insurance elsewhere.
I know that insurers work on the basis of something relating to 'full disclosure' of information, stating that it is your responsibility to disclose all relevant information.
My interpretation of the law is that if you policy confirms that you are covered at the minimum level in Europe, and you are only requiring this level of cover, then you have no need to advise them of which roads that you are driving on, thereby satisfying this in the eyes of the law.
I have further heard that currently insurers are confused as to how to deal with this situation given that clauses excluding the Nurburgring do not appear to hold up in law because of the above, and as such are using 'discouragement' tactics to reduce the overall number of claims. Essentially - tell people that they wouldnt be insured (despite the fact that by law they would be) and they wont go.
Clearly still a massively grey area, but with the trip looming, I was curious as to how people have managed to resolve this.
Has anybody found any insurers that are actually prepared to put nuts on line and provide additional cover specifically? Or are they reluctant to provide this as they would effectively be charging you twice for a service that they already have to provide by law? (Thereby opening up a completely separate can of worms for future claims).
All input gratefully received as always
08-03-2007, 11:28 AM
#2
just finding my feet
my insurance company told me i get cover for 28 days in europe and all i am required to do is tell them when im going to europe and they will remove the time for the next time
they also said " yes mate you can also go to the ring,,,,, you could have just asked that though"
3rd pary cover only though so dont get your car nicked
they also said " yes mate you can also go to the ring,,,,, you could have just asked that though"
3rd pary cover only though so dont get your car nicked
08-03-2007, 11:51 AM
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Originally Posted by Ginge !
my insurance company told me i get cover for 28 days in europe and all i am required to do is tell them when im going to europe and they will remove the time for the next time
they also said " yes mate you can also go to the ring,,,,, you could have just asked that though"
3rd pary cover only though so dont get your car nicked
they also said " yes mate you can also go to the ring,,,,, you could have just asked that though"
3rd pary cover only though so dont get your car nicked
JJ
08-03-2007, 05:12 PM
#7
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now i'm with flux i'm DREADING the conversation with them
when you ring the callcenter up, can you ask to speak to someone who doesnt work for minimum wage and actually knows about insurance?
when you ring the callcenter up, can you ask to speak to someone who doesnt work for minimum wage and actually knows about insurance?
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08-03-2007, 05:23 PM
#8
just finding my feet
you need a new broker jim mate
though to be fair GSI never sent out my insurance cert so then scanned it and emailed me if and i had to photoshop the "duplicate" water mark anti fraud thingy and make a fake insurance cert at work to tax my car last friday,,,,,,, anyone who knows me will know i aint talking shite either
but they DID do everything they can and are very helpful and tell me all the loopholes aswell
though to be fair GSI never sent out my insurance cert so then scanned it and emailed me if and i had to photoshop the "duplicate" water mark anti fraud thingy and make a fake insurance cert at work to tax my car last friday,,,,,,, anyone who knows me will know i aint talking shite either
but they DID do everything they can and are very helpful and tell me all the loopholes aswell
09-03-2007, 07:34 AM
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On my previous insurance, there is a small print which it says that they do not cover the ring, but is OK for anywhere in Europe.
09-03-2007, 08:47 AM
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Originally Posted by tsutton
On my previous insurance, there is a small print which it says that they do not cover the ring, but is OK for anywhere in Europe.
As I understand it, Germany see it as a road, and as such refuse to allow insurers to distinguish between it and any other part of the road system.
Effectively I think that they are saying 'if you allow this, then insurers could simply refuse to insure accident black spots on roads'.
I can think of one who has managed to claim on a policy that excluded it, but I will let him chime in of his own accord if he wishes to.
JJ
09-03-2007, 09:14 AM
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Originally Posted by Marc LJX
http://autos.ninebean.com/ringers/viewtopic.php?t=38916
This doesnt sound too good
This doesnt sound too good
No it doesnt - and I am truly surprised. It doesnt make reference to a third party claim though, which makes me wonder whether the claim was initiated in Germany, or in UK.
If you only have a claim for your own car, then there is no 3rd party liability. Here, I suspect the insurers are strong.
I am guessing now
JJ
09-03-2007, 09:48 AM
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Thats probably (!) right...
If you smash your own car up all by yourself on the Ring (Regardless of legal "Public toll road" status) and then try to claim, they would obviously not want to pay you a penny.
If it is a third party claiming against you, it could be more in your favour.
Personally i accept that if i bin my own car, i wont get a penny back from the insurers and could potentially have a very large armco / emergency service / helicopter / track closure. And i try to drive with that in mind, mainly putting in laps at quiet times.
Doesnt stop accidents happening though
I cant imagine the complications of being involved in a multi car shunt...
I expect youve already read this but its worth a look if you havent:
http://www.nurburgring.org.uk/insurance.html
If you smash your own car up all by yourself on the Ring (Regardless of legal "Public toll road" status) and then try to claim, they would obviously not want to pay you a penny.
If it is a third party claiming against you, it could be more in your favour.
Personally i accept that if i bin my own car, i wont get a penny back from the insurers and could potentially have a very large armco / emergency service / helicopter / track closure. And i try to drive with that in mind, mainly putting in laps at quiet times.
Doesnt stop accidents happening though
I cant imagine the complications of being involved in a multi car shunt...
I expect youve already read this but its worth a look if you havent:
http://www.nurburgring.org.uk/insurance.html
09-03-2007, 09:54 AM
#15
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just rang flux to sort european cover. they asked me where i was going, i told them. they said nothing 
(shoulda recorded the phonecall just incase )
anyway, they said they dont issue a greencard, and that al the information is on my certificate, so i just take the certificate with me.
is that right? i thought u needed a green card?
(shoulda recorded the phonecall just incase )anyway, they said they dont issue a greencard, and that al the information is on my certificate, so i just take the certificate with me.
is that right? i thought u needed a green card?
09-03-2007, 10:02 AM
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Originally Posted by Marc LJX
Thats probably (!) right...
If you smash your own car up all by yourself on the Ring (Regardless of legal "Public toll road" status) and then try to claim, they would obviously not want to pay you a penny.
If it is a third party claiming against you, it could be more in your favour.
Personally i accept that if i bin my own car, i wont get a penny back from the insurers and could potentially have a very large armco / emergency service / helicopter / track closure. And i try to drive with that in mind, mainly putting in laps at quiet times.
Doesnt stop accidents happening though
I cant imagine the complications of being involved in a multi car shunt...
I expect youve already read this but its worth a look if you havent:
http://www.nurburgring.org.uk/insurance.html
If you smash your own car up all by yourself on the Ring (Regardless of legal "Public toll road" status) and then try to claim, they would obviously not want to pay you a penny.
If it is a third party claiming against you, it could be more in your favour.
Personally i accept that if i bin my own car, i wont get a penny back from the insurers and could potentially have a very large armco / emergency service / helicopter / track closure. And i try to drive with that in mind, mainly putting in laps at quiet times.
Doesnt stop accidents happening though
I cant imagine the complications of being involved in a multi car shunt...
I expect youve already read this but its worth a look if you havent:
http://www.nurburgring.org.uk/insurance.html
I agree with your sentiment. I also feel that if you trash your own car, then its on you! I can live with that
The thing that scares the shit out of me is if I hit someone else. As stated, accidents happen. God forbid that it should ever happen, but what if you lose control, and someone actually gets seriously hurt as a result?
This is where I go a little pale!
JJ
09-03-2007, 10:30 AM
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Hi Marc
I agree with your sentiment. I also feel that if you trash your own car, then its on you! I can live with that
The thing that scares the shit out of me is if I hit someone else. As stated, accidents happen. God forbid that it should ever happen, but what if you lose control, and someone actually gets seriously hurt as a result?
This is where I go a little pale!
JJ
I agree with your sentiment. I also feel that if you trash your own car, then its on you! I can live with that
The thing that scares the shit out of me is if I hit someone else. As stated, accidents happen. God forbid that it should ever happen, but what if you lose control, and someone actually gets seriously hurt as a result?
This is where I go a little pale!
JJ
TBH i know its very wrong, but i dont think about it too much
I know i should though...
09-03-2007, 12:46 PM
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Ben Lovejoy just added this to the above linked thread:
Thats what i thought with the third party cover, but i just wouldnt like to put it to the test...
So long as it's legally a road, the opinion of a senior insurance industry contact is that they have no chance of denying third-party cover.
If we end up in a situation where everyone has 3rd-party cover only, it would be interesting to see the effect. How many people would stop going altogether? How many would buy DRTs? And would people drive more carefully?
I can certainly see one scenario where this might even be a positive move: everyone drives more carefully, and there is a large-scale switch towards DRTs (which are safer given rollcages, harnesses, etc).
Ben
If we end up in a situation where everyone has 3rd-party cover only, it would be interesting to see the effect. How many people would stop going altogether? How many would buy DRTs? And would people drive more carefully?
I can certainly see one scenario where this might even be a positive move: everyone drives more carefully, and there is a large-scale switch towards DRTs (which are safer given rollcages, harnesses, etc).
Ben
09-03-2007, 01:17 PM
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Hmmmm
I agree.
so basically, dont rely on your insurance for your own stuff, but perhaps you will be okay on the third party stuff. This I can live with.
Hmmm. I wonder if you could sue yourself for the loss, and recover it from the insurers as a third party loss PMSL!
JJ
I agree.
so basically, dont rely on your insurance for your own stuff, but perhaps you will be okay on the third party stuff. This I can live with.
Hmmm. I wonder if you could sue yourself for the loss, and recover it from the insurers as a third party loss PMSL!
JJ
09-03-2007, 01:43 PM
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Hmmm. I wonder if you could sue yourself for the loss, and recover it from the insurers as a third party loss PMSL!
Or always take a passenger out so in the event, they can sue your insurance and the split the payout with you
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