Cam caps!!!
25-10-2006, 09:10 AM
#1
Cam caps!!!
....jesus helicoils aint that easy to install are they? 
..Specially as i am simple 
.....needed 5 done.....The middle cam cap (YB) exhaust side the studs are slightly higher than the rest all in though and nuts torqued to 20ft/lb it wont matter will it?
Can you tell me the cam caps aint under massive stress are they?....I am sure all is ok but you cant do them too tight as the cam will where the cap?
Explain please.
..Specially as i am simple .....needed 5 done.....The middle cam cap (YB) exhaust side the studs are slightly higher than the rest all in though and nuts torqued to 20ft/lb it wont matter will it?Can you tell me the cam caps aint under massive stress are they?....I am sure all is ok but you cant do them too tight as the cam will where the cap?
Explain please.
25-10-2006, 09:13 AM
#2
Re: Cam caps!!!
Originally Posted by Bosch-Man
....jesus helicoils aint that easy to install are they? ..Specially as i am simple .....needed 5 done.....The middle cam cap (YB) exhaust side the studs are slightly higher than the rest all in though and nuts torqued to 20ft/lb it wont matter will it?
Can you tell me the cam caps aint under massive stress are they?....I am sure all is ok but you cant do them too tight as the cam will where the cap?
Explain please.
..Specially as i am simple .....needed 5 done.....The middle cam cap (YB) exhaust side the studs are slightly higher than the rest all in though and nuts torqued to 20ft/lb it wont matter will it?Can you tell me the cam caps aint under massive stress are they?....I am sure all is ok but you cant do them too tight as the cam will where the cap?
Explain please.
The caps arent under much strain.
Best thing you could do with them installed (without the cams in) is to use a small dial gauge to check for ovality.
rule of thumb though:
providing they are visisbly making a circle still they will be fine, dont panic
25-10-2006, 09:22 AM
#3
Just so i understand...if you over tighten the cam caps what would happen?...Especially the first one that goes over the front cam seal?...(Previously everything was over tightened hence the need for helicoils)
25-10-2006, 09:27 AM
#4
i think it would,
A, distort the cap cap as they are made of soft material.
B, Promote wear on the cam cap.
C, cause the cam to be tight ,especially when the engine is hot
D, make the cam seal wear out faster, as it may hold the seal to tight against the cam,
A, distort the cap cap as they are made of soft material.
B, Promote wear on the cam cap.
C, cause the cam to be tight ,especially when the engine is hot
D, make the cam seal wear out faster, as it may hold the seal to tight against the cam,
25-10-2006, 09:31 AM
#5
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sorry to hi jack but on the same topic, why are the two holes in each cap different sizes. from memory they are 8mm + 8.5mm and this allows some movement of the cap, its almost like they use the cam for cap location!
25-10-2006, 09:33 AM
#6
Originally Posted by Bosch-Man
Just so i understand...if you over tighten the cam caps what would happen?...Especially the first one that goes over the front cam seal?...(Previously everything was over tightened hence the need for helicoils)
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25-10-2006, 09:37 AM
#9
...just so paranoid that a stud will snap or a nut comes off...helicoiling is an arse..i had to tap the studs lightly to line up with the cam cap...I locktited them in and on all the nuts so hopefully no issues...If they aint under much load then i guess not much can go wrong..even if over tightened etc!
25-10-2006, 09:46 AM
#12
Originally Posted by Bosch-Man
...just so paranoid that a stud will snap or a nut comes off...helicoiling is an arse..i had to tap the studs lightly to line up with the cam cap...I locktited them in and on all the nuts so hopefully no issues...If they aint under much load then i guess not much can go wrong..even if over tightened etc!
If they did start coming loose, i would expect you to hear a rattle like a lifter was shagged as the clearance would be too big suddenly, i guess if you were really unlucky the cam itself could snap too, but even that rarely result in any bottom end damage
25-10-2006, 09:51 AM
#13
Originally Posted by chip-3door
Originally Posted by Bosch-Man
...just so paranoid that a stud will snap or a nut comes off...helicoiling is an arse..i had to tap the studs lightly to line up with the cam cap...I locktited them in and on all the nuts so hopefully no issues...If they aint under much load then i guess not much can go wrong..even if over tightened etc!
If they did start coming loose, i would expect you to hear a rattle like a lifter was shagged as the clearance would be too big suddenly, i guess if you were really unlucky the cam itself could snap too, but even that rarely result in any bottom end damage
Oh get a room you two!!
25-10-2006, 10:28 AM
#16
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Originally Posted by Bosch-Man
...just so paranoid that a stud will snap or a nut comes off...helicoiling is an arse..i had to tap the studs lightly to line up with the cam cap...I locktited them in and on all the nuts so hopefully no issues...If they aint under much load then i guess not much can go wrong..even if over tightened etc!
Ps believe me i've been over & over this subject!!
Proper drama queen & i'm as simple as you! 
25-10-2006, 10:29 AM
#17
Originally Posted by Bosch-Man
Thats strange...as the only reason i changed the followers is because of a top end rattle...and found studs turning!
Perfectly possible there is nothing wrong with the lifters.
25-10-2006, 10:40 AM
#19
Originally Posted by JTECHSAFF
did you guys drill the head, then tap it, then fit the helicoil?
If so did you use a pillar drill?
If so did you use a pillar drill?
There isnt any other way to fit a helicoil is there?
Can see where you are going with the pillar drill comment in terms of how "snugly" the caps fit the studs
25-10-2006, 10:45 AM
#22
see!
if you had put the head on a level pillar drill ,and then drilled the hole dead straight it should have worked out fine, obviously you would still have room for error with the tapping, but drilling with a shonky black and decker hand drill isnt very accurate!
if you had put the head on a level pillar drill ,and then drilled the hole dead straight it should have worked out fine, obviously you would still have room for error with the tapping, but drilling with a shonky black and decker hand drill isnt very accurate!
25-10-2006, 10:47 AM
#24
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Originally Posted by JTECHSAFF
see!
if you had put the head on a level pillar drill ,and then drilled the hole dead straight it should have worked out fine, obviously you would still have room for error with the tapping, but drilling with a shonky black and decker hand drill isnt very accurate!
if you had put the head on a level pillar drill ,and then drilled the hole dead straight it should have worked out fine, obviously you would still have room for error with the tapping, but drilling with a shonky black and decker hand drill isnt very accurate!
as i say they all fitted, just very snuggly!
Oh well its done now, so have to live & learn.................. Oh and hope for the best!!
25-10-2006, 10:52 AM
#26
Originally Posted by Bosch-Man
..i just a trusty Bosch drill whats a pillar ..All it said on my helicoil kit was use an 8mm drill bit!
..All it said on my helicoil kit was use an 8mm drill bit!Hopefully not enough to matter at all
25-10-2006, 10:53 AM
#28
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Originally Posted by chip-3door
If they did start coming loose, i would expect you to hear a rattle like a lifter was shagged as the clearance would be too big suddenly, i guess if you were really unlucky the cam itself could snap too, but even that rarely result in any bottom end damage
Had mine helicoiled and the rattle came back a few months later so the second time I had bigger bolts fitted intstead.
25-10-2006, 10:55 AM
#29
Originally Posted by Andreas
Originally Posted by chip-3door
If they did start coming loose, i would expect you to hear a rattle like a lifter was shagged as the clearance would be too big suddenly, i guess if you were really unlucky the cam itself could snap too, but even that rarely result in any bottom end damage
Had mine helicoiled and the rattle came back a few months later so the second time I had bigger bolts fitted intstead.
25-10-2006, 10:58 AM
#30
I hardly had to tap them TBH...
...cant be recommended to drill the cam cap holes bigger surely?
..only had to do 3 holes in the end for cam caps..seal caps i guess are not as critical.
...cant be recommended to drill the cam cap holes bigger surely?
..only had to do 3 holes in the end for cam caps..seal caps i guess are not as critical.
25-10-2006, 11:02 AM
#32
Originally Posted by JTECHSAFF
Originally Posted by Andreas
Originally Posted by chip-3door
If they did start coming loose, i would expect you to hear a rattle like a lifter was shagged as the clearance would be too big suddenly, i guess if you were really unlucky the cam itself could snap too, but even that rarely result in any bottom end damage
Had mine helicoiled and the rattle came back a few months later so the second time I had bigger bolts fitted intstead.
25-10-2006, 11:45 AM
#34
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Originally Posted by JTECHSAFF
Originally Posted by Andreas
Originally Posted by chip-3door
If they did start coming loose, i would expect you to hear a rattle like a lifter was shagged as the clearance would be too big suddenly, i guess if you were really unlucky the cam itself could snap too, but even that rarely result in any bottom end damage
Had mine helicoiled and the rattle came back a few months later so the second time I had bigger bolts fitted intstead.
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