Graham S1

Just a plain old conspiracy

Especially for Rhys, Rich, Lee, Matt, MWF. Fancy taking the piss out of the families of the 9/11 victims?

No controlled demolitions, missiles, aliens or even elvis.

It may be one and a half hours long, but you only need to watch the first 30 mins or so to get the picture.

http://video.google.com/videoplay?do...20641536424083

http://www.911pressfortruth.com/

I'm saying nothing. People will have to watch to try and criticise this one.

Jonzy

Go look at porn mate, its getting fucking boring now.

GARETH T

i cant bring myself to watch it

lukeytheduke

i d.l it ages ago, its well interesting and plausable

Anonymous

Does it contain ANY hard evidence that anyone other than islamic terrorists committed the murders?

Im guessing not?

But dont let that stand in the way of your "1 man from amersham brings down the US government by posting crap on websites" campaign

_DAN_

True tho.

lukeytheduke

why dont you watch it first and see,

for example this is fact, the mobile phone calls that the goverment realised to the press are fake, due to the impossibility of getting a connection from that height to another mobile or land line

previous exposions fires in other similar towers did not lead those tower to collapse.

Steel would not melt at the tempreture the govt said it did, all experts agreed that different exsplosions went of like detonations that brought the tower down

there are loads more mate, watch it

if anything its interesting

Graham S1

And theres the problem. Your guessing. No clues mate, your going to have to watch (at least part of) it.

I manage to find time for both.

MWF

Well I wont comment before watching it. I wrote a whole factual explanation on how it all happened only yesterday, perhaps I should send it to them?

RichardPON

Don't be silly!

It'll be just as plausible as "Loose Change" and their "this video can't be Bin Laden as his religion forbids him from wearing gold rings and here he is wearing a gold ring"

89xr2

It's a good video that presents lots of viable facts. But it's still all just theories i'm afraid.

Anonymous

Indeed


Ultimately my lack of interest in it all comes back to some fundamental things:

1) I genuiney believe that the US govrenment did NOT plant bombs all over the twin towers, i do FULLY appreciate the enormous political leverage it gave george bush against his own citizens when it came to starting wars in countries full of oil, but that doesnt mean he did it, it just means he (or rather the people pulling the strings to make him dance) capitalised on a change in circumstances to his own advantage, which is what ALL politicians do constantly anyway!


2) IF they did plant bombs all over them or mastermind the plot to fly panes into them, there is absolutely NO WAY that they will get caught out by someone in amersham

Oranoco

There are certainly a lot of things that don't quite add up. I've seen a fair few bits on this and while I don't say the U.S government orchestrated the whole thing there is certainly plenty to provoke thought.

Anybody in explosive demolition will tell you something's not quite right though as both towers fell into their own footprints. That takes a lot of control.

Either way it's a shitty thing that happened and no amount sof speculation can bring back to the families their dead

Anonymous

So the following quote:
Was in fact just a conspiracy to trick us into believing it was worth watching then?

Anonymous

The sort of controlled fall you would get when one story gave way, causing some stories above it to fall and it all just come down step by step as it continually built into a bigger and bigger mass slowly that crushed the successive floors below?

Kind of like what would happen if you flew an airplane into it halfway up and it then caught fire complete with all the fuel and weakened the steel?

That sort of control?

89xr2

Well, chip it's facts in the sense that they could be true...

It's also possible that the whole thing was caused by the purchase of your flamey shirty. To re balance the good/evil in the world

Oranoco

It's a touchy subject and arguing about it is in poor taste and to some people quite offensive. All I'm saying is there is enough to make you think that's all.

Thrush

iTrader: (1)

That IS funny

CossieRich

iTrader: (1)

im watching it now

BlueSmoke

What's to say that the steel wasn't softened by the impact and thent he fire softened it further, causing the buckled steel to give, rather than it completely melting? And then the floors which were not designed to take the weight of other floors sitting upon them gave way one by one as the structure fell?

Anyway that's just guesswork (like these videos ), but what I will say is that in such a massive event with so many variables involved, there are always going to be things that don't seem to add up or questions that cannot be answered. There's no conspiracy in that.

Keith B

There have been a ton of new documentries on 911 over here and I've watched quite a few of them and one thing I have to say is that to think it was some form of conspiracy/controlled demolition/cruise missile or whatever is really insulting to the people who were there that day - besides the gross stupidity on the part of the theorist. Get an education in life.

Fiddy

i think its a very touchy subject to be honest, i have my theorys but i dont like to go spouting off about them, out of respect for the people who lost there lives. but i think most peoples opinions are varied, some believe it was bin laden, some think it was bush, and some think it was a combination of both, i honestly dont think anyone will ever know the whole truth. but when people in america are paying to advertise like this, you got to wonder.

Cossiebros

This might be an interesting read, these people actually know what they are talking about.

http://www.popularmechanics.com/scie...tml?page=4&c=y

Anonymous

You cant possibly REALLY expect someone like graham to actually read any of that do you?

He's ONLY interested in the consiparacy stuff, not the reasons its all crap. LOL

Dannn

Surely you just need to stand back and apply some common sense to all of this. There is no way on earth the US goverment could have direct involvment in all of this. There would simply be too many people involved to keep quiet.

However it could be possible that a few people in the US goverment had indirect involvment by knowning a terriost attack is going to take place (and doing nothing to stop it) or at the extreme end indirectly helping the terriost commit the act.

Btw instead of watching those crap 911 documentary watch a three part documentary made by the BBC call the "Power of Nightmares".

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/programmes/3755686.stm

Graham S1

sooo, what did Henry Kissenger have to do with 9/11?

Rich_w

Having watched "The path to 9/11" the other day. And that was based on facts (though obviously dramatised for TV) It seems the CIA and FBI were involved in too many power struggles, and that apathy/arrogance of the US further up the chain of command led to these terrorists having their day.

They knew about them, and they could of killed/arrested/captured some of them. But they chose not to act. And thats as far as US Government involvement went. Not direct, but indirect as above.

As Chip says, they made the most of a bad situation.

Dont expect me to waste time watching these crappy half truth "documentaries" showing how George Bush was at the controls of UA175

Oh and as an edit. IF somebody wanted to demolish the WTC with explosives, why not just use a sodding great truck bomb in the underground car park. Why go to all the hassle of getting aircraft. Everyone knew the '93 attack was designed to drop the towers, so IF you wanted to blame Islamic terrorists just replicate the attack, but make it successful! Hell with a little time, you could make it really neat Fred Dibnah style. Even make Tower 1 hit Tower 2 on the way down. Carefully taking out WTC7

Carlsworth

fully believe this...

like the 12 disciples theory.....

12 people running the world,....
they also have delegates that choose who comes into power in every country etc.....


metal gear


bush did not blow up towers....
if you look carefully, you can see 2 planes fly into them,....


carl

Anonymous

I bet that graham is on some forum for this 9/11 stuff somewhere and spends all day talking to people who tell him we are all brainwashed by the system etc and that only those that believe in elvis and diana blowing up the towers with alien technology after george bush paid them to with oil money are inteligent enough to see the truth

biglee

i have a few questions....

aircraft fuel burns at 1300 deg, steel melts at 2009 deg...HOW??

the lower structure of the towers are allready supporting all the weight since they were built?? so how can u say the strcture colapsed under weight??

and each tower came down completely in under 10 seconds....thats the speed of free-fall....HOW???

please answer

Anonymous

Jet fuel burns at 800° to 1500°F, not hot enough to melt steel (2750°F). However, experts agree that for the towers to collapse, their steel frames didn't need to melt, they just had to lose some of their structural strength--and that required exposure to much less heat. "I have never seen melted steel in a building fire," says retired New York deputy fire chief Vincent Dunn, author of The Collapse Of Burning Buildings: A Guide To Fireground Safety. "But I've seen a lot of twisted, warped, bent and sagging steel. What happens is that the steel tries to expand at both ends, but when it can no longer expand, it sags and the surrounding concrete cracks."

"Steel loses about 50 percent of its strength at 1100°F," notes senior engineer Farid Alfawak-hiri of the American Institute of Steel Construction. "And at 1800° it is probably at less than 10 percent." NIST also believes that a great deal of the spray-on fireproofing insulation was likely knocked off the steel beams that were in the path of the crashing jets, leaving the metal more vulnerable to the heat.

But jet fuel wasn't the only thing burning, notes Forman Williams, a professor of engineering at the University of California, San Diego, and one of seven structural engineers and fire experts that PM consulted. He says that while the jet fuel was the catalyst for the WTC fires, the resulting inferno was intensified by the combustible material inside the buildings, including rugs, curtains, furniture and paper. NIST reports that pockets of fire hit 1832°F.

"The jet fuel was the ignition source," Williams tells PM. "It burned for maybe 10 minutes, and [the towers] were still standing in 10 minutes. It was the rest of the stuff burning afterward that was responsible for the heat transfer that eventually brought them down."




Once each tower began to collapse, the weight of all the floors above the collapsed zone bore down with pulverizing force on the highest intact floor. Unable to absorb the massive energy, that floor would fail, transmitting the forces to the floor below, allowing the collapse to progress downward through the building in a chain reaction. Engineers call the process "pancaking," and it does not require an explosion to begin, according to David Biggs, a structural engineer at Ryan-Biggs Associates and a member of the American Society of Civil Engineers (ASCE) team that worked on the FEMA report.

Like all office buildings, the WTC towers contained a huge volume of air. As they pancaked, all that air--along with the concrete and other debris pulverized by the force of the collapse--was ejected with enormous energy. "When you have a significant portion of a floor collapsing, it's going to shoot air and concrete dust out the window," NIST lead investigator Shyam Sunder tells PM. Those clouds of dust may create the impression of a controlled demolition, Sunder adds, "but it is the floor pancaking that leads to that perception."

Demolition expert Romero regrets that his comments to the Albuquerque Journal became fodder for conspiracy theorists. "I was misquoted in saying that I thought it was explosives that brought down the building," he tells PM. "I only said that that's what it looked like."

Romero, who agrees with the scientific conclusion that fire triggered the collapses, demanded a retraction from the Journal. It was printed Sept. 22, 2001. "I felt like my scientific reputation was on the line." But emperors-clothes.com saw something else: "The paymaster of Romero's research institute is the Pentagon. Directly or indirectly, pressure was brought to bear, forcing Romero to retract his original statement." Romero responds: "Conspiracy theorists came out saying that the government got to me. That is the farthest thing from the truth. This has been an albatross around my neck for three years."

I dont believe that if you time the collapse accurately and then time something free falling it would be the same, didnt look it to me, but i havent actually done those timings personally so cant comment further.
Wouldnt expect there to be a big difference from one to the other anyway though when something like that gets going i can see it all happening very quickly.


[/quote]

Rich_w

Edit too slow for Chip

biglee

thought the steel was high tensile stuff and was tested to melt at 2000 deg....could be wrong tho...

500M tones at free fall works out to be 10.76 seconds at normal atmospheric pressure, it worries me that there is no resistance, there sould be some sort of delay when floors fall onto floors over a certain mumber of floors lets say 100 over 100 floors you would expect a delay from free-fall of at least an added 1 second or so prehaps more......

what you think?

Rich_w

In fairness you are only timing the cloud, not the actual building as its obscured.


What gets me is that this event has never happend before, and invariably things happen differently compared to even the most accurate computer simulations. Yet the Nutbags cant fathom this and shout cover up, instead of accepting the truth.

biglee

i am niether one way or the other, i just had a few questions i didnt know the answer to.

science tells us the weekest part of a tall structure is 2/3 of the way up...

Anonymous

Have just watched the whole video.

Totally and utterly supports my own views:

1) It WAS terrorists not elvis

2) It was planes not bombs

3) It wasnt anything to do with the government

4) The US government ignored many minor warnings cause it was arrogant

5) The US government tried after to hide that any such warning existed




What did you see in that film that i didnt graham?
Did i miss the bit where bush ordered the planes to fly into the buildign?

Fastmaul

Uhm, before you go any further realize that the company that produced this film/TV "Show" Got the same super secret Intel info from where Graham did. There's load's of people saying how "biased" it was. And a TV show based on the "Facts" Yeah, the producer was in the room with the president and other members of the Govt all those years to know it was fact. It all looks good and makes for GREAT Television, I mean look... You guys are talking about it.
Not a dig though, just pointing out incase someone else see that TV show and think it's a factual program.

Here IS a FACT,

Mine and Taryn's good mate is dead. No theory, NO conspiracy, FACT.

Here's my Honest thoughts for those that think the US Govt. Did this for oil/power.

If that's true then

A. Why did our gas/fuel prices rise so much ( I know you guys already think our fuel is cheap but when it rises the way it did some here go crazy! LOL)
B. Why did our economy go to shit (Just look at the Exchange rate! It's Fookin doing my head in! and making my cossie revival take even longer!)
C. Why "on purpose" make so many people/countries not like us (It's bad enough loads of us don't like the Bush Admin. We don't need clueless fools who read garbage on the net not like us either thinking we're all Bush supporters... WE'RE NOT!)
D. Why is the US Govt. still sending in more people/troops to die after they already killed 3k+ on 9-11
E. When/Where and How did Graham become such a Politician? and how is he still not in office? I mean, what he's saying is the truth and no Politician ever lies to their people/ Govt!
F. Who Killed Biggie and Tupac? and are they really dead? Or are they making a remix with Elvis?

And...
G. Where the hell is Amersham?


Oh and Fiddy UK.
That's the GREAT thing about OUR Countries, We can say what we want about our leaders/Government. Let's see them do that where Terrorist/Supporters Hold Govt.

Fastmaul

I do believe that. I Believe at times the Yank Gvt. Is so Fecking Arrogant like we're here to save the worlds or are the only one's who can do it (meanwhile ignoring their own backyard).

As much as I don't like Eminem here's a Brilliant line from one of his songs....

I'm ALL for America, FUCK the Govt.

Oh and like Carlsworth... I too somehow believe about the 12 Disciples theory but no worries, I'm not going to fill up half this Forum with posts about it!

dojj

iTrader: (3)

well, chalk one up for the conspiracy side here

i've clicked on all 4 links and 2 have come up with:

Access Denied (policy_denied)
This site has been classified as containing inappropriate material and has been blocked. If you feel this has been done in error please contact IT or click here to automatically email IT Support with these details.

one has come up with:

Access to the URL: http://www.popularmechanics.com/scie...tml?page=4&c=y
appears to be in conflict with the Healthcare at Home internet usage policy.
Internet usage is routinely monitored and logged.
Your IP address:
Your username:
The URL is:http://www.popularmechanics.com/scie...tml?page=4&c=y
The category of this URL is:Entertainment/Recreation/Hobbies
If you have a legitimate reason to access this site please click here to continue or email IT Support to request re-categorisation of this site

and the other one has come up with a picture of all 3 b men in the same spot!!!!!!



on to a more serious note, 2 people i "knew" and conversed with on the net on a fairly regular basis were lost that day so i don't really care if everyone is blaming one side or the other, there are people out there that know the truth but i can't see it ever coming out in my lifetime
if it has meant that bush and his croonies were greenlighted into attacking everyone with a "legitimate" excuse then so be it, but it seems to have caused more problems than it's solved in the middle east and STILL no bin laden

Fiddy

its all good and well having the freedom of speech, everyone can run around, and say what they want. but it makes no difference what so ever when the powers that be dont listen. that film highlighted perfectly what i mean, all those people, turning over all those stones, finding out incrimanating information, pointing fingers and naming names, and 5 years down the line, nothing has changed, the same people are still in power, not listening, and doing as they please. and is the world now a safer place in 2006 than it was in 2001 ? no it isnt, everyone is in fear that something like this will happen again.