Stu or owners of MSD closed loop chips
09-09-2006, 04:10 PM
#1
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Stu or owners of MSD closed loop chips
Finally fitted my msd chip after weeks waiting for a standard daughter board, followed instructions and it fired up lovely, when to get the co checked, it was showing 9% as apposed to the 0.9% in the instructions or so I thought, however the guy with the equipment said that 0.9 was probably reffering to AFR on the instructions I think im correct and its refering to CO. When I left the car was 2% co at adle with all electrics off but dropped to 0.83% when the fans cut in, both these figures where accompanied by lambda 1 AFR do I need to further adjust the CO? will 2% CO on idle cause me a problem with the closed loop chip. Thanks in advance Trev.
09-09-2006, 04:28 PM
#5
Testing the future
you can't have lambda = 1 at 2 different CO levels 
at lambda = 1, CO should be 0.9% simple as that.
check the graph here http://www.autoshop101.com/forms/h56...oxide%20Nox%22
sounds like the operator doesn't have a clue what he's talking about
at lambda = 1, CO should be 0.9% simple as that.check the graph here http://www.autoshop101.com/forms/h56...oxide%20Nox%22
sounds like the operator doesn't have a clue what he's talking about
09-09-2006, 04:35 PM
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Originally Posted by costina
Did you turn Co screw five times clockwise and back two turns?
Mine's 0.7 Co at idle
What lambda sensor are u using?
Mine's 0.7 Co at idle
What lambda sensor are u using?
yes and that put me miles off
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09-09-2006, 04:41 PM
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Originally Posted by foreigneRS
you can't have lambda = 1 at 2 different CO levels at lambda = 1, CO should be 0.9% simple as that.
check the graph here http://www.autoshop101.com/forms/h56...oxide%20Nox%22
sounds like the operator doesn't have a clue what he's talking about
at lambda = 1, CO should be 0.9% simple as that.check the graph here http://www.autoshop101.com/forms/h56...oxide%20Nox%22
sounds like the operator doesn't have a clue what he's talking about
To be fair perhaps my statement was a little miss leading it was very close to lambda 1 at both points 0.8 and 2% co unfortunately the sun gas analiser I was looking at did not show the ratio but a lamda value so it was like 1.01 and 0.96 something like that obviously the lower figure was for the 2% co reading
09-09-2006, 04:44 PM
#9
Evening Trevor.
The most common reasons for high idle co are as follows:
1) Tested engine too cold so closed loop not actually active.
2) Fuel pressue wrong.
3) Cam timing wrong.
The above all pressume correct sensor operation of course.
(map sensor output drift is a common one, affecting idle pressure most)
If i can be of any assistance whatsoever please feel free to call me on Monday mate, happy to help.
The most common reasons for high idle co are as follows:
1) Tested engine too cold so closed loop not actually active.
2) Fuel pressue wrong.
3) Cam timing wrong.
The above all pressume correct sensor operation of course.
(map sensor output drift is a common one, affecting idle pressure most)
If i can be of any assistance whatsoever please feel free to call me on Monday mate, happy to help.
09-09-2006, 04:55 PM
#11
Originally Posted by costina
Fuel pressure 3 bar at idle?
is that correct Stu?
cheers
Paul
is that correct Stu?
cheers
Paul
09-09-2006, 05:10 PM
#12
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Hi Stu Thanks for the reply I dont know if the fuel pressure is correct i need to check it, the anti tamper cap is still in place though, car was nice and warm I waited for the fans to cut in and out before checking the CO I could have made it less than 0.9% but was miss guided by the guy that owns the equipment I.e if it was a CO value or Lambda value. The thing that concerns me is the large change in co between fans on and fans off?
09-09-2006, 05:30 PM
#13
Cheers stu the book say's 3.5 bar ign on and 3.0 bar running.
BUT i will check it and do it as you said as thats the pressure you map on
trevCOSS you will find a difference due to the amount of amps the fans take to run and if your alt is up to it.
BUT i will check it and do it as you said as thats the pressure you map on
trevCOSS you will find a difference due to the amount of amps the fans take to run and if your alt is up to it.
09-09-2006, 05:32 PM
#14
Originally Posted by Stu @ M Developments
Originally Posted by costina
Fuel pressure 3 bar at idle?
is that correct Stu?
cheers
Paul
is that correct Stu?
cheers
Paul
09-09-2006, 06:02 PM
#15
Dont forget you have to adjust the base idle speed to make sure its stable with such low fuel levels. When you have it all correct you can unplug the ISCV and nothing will happen at all. NOTHING.
The ecu has a large voltage drop with the fans kicking in id say. Try a meter on pin 20 of teh ecu with fans off and on, see what you get. You want it to stay above 13.5v at all times ideally. 
Try the same at teh fuel pump too, worth a check.
Originally Posted by trevCOSS
but was miss guided by the guy that owns the equipment I.e if it was a CO value or Lambda value. The thing that concerns me is the large change in co between fans on and fans off?
Try the same at teh fuel pump too, worth a check.
09-09-2006, 06:03 PM
#16
Originally Posted by costina
Cheers Stu the book say's 3.5 bar ign on and 3.0 bar running.
BUT i will check it and do it as you said as thats the pressure you map on
BUT i will check it and do it as you said as thats the pressure you map on
Engine running only means 2 things to the reg.
1) Fuel is flowing through it.
2) vac is applied to the pipe.
The reason to do it my way is simple, with engine off, you will get a brief peak and then it will start to fall down. Its better to take a constant real world reading.
09-09-2006, 10:01 PM
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Originally Posted by Stu @ M Developments
Dont forget you have to adjust the base idle speed to make sure its stable with such low fuel levels. When you have it all correct you can unplug the ISCV and nothing will happen at all. NOTHING.
The ecu has a large voltage drop with the fans kicking in id say. Try a meter on pin 20 of the ecu with fans off and on, see what you get. You want it to stay above 13.5v at all times ideally.
Try the same at the fuel pump too, worth a check.
Originally Posted by trevCOSS
but was miss guided by the guy that owns the equipment I.e if it was a CO value or Lambda value. The thing that concerns me is the large change in co between fans on and fans off?
Try the same at the fuel pump too, worth a check.
10-09-2006, 08:05 PM
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following Stu's advice I spent today My Wifes Birthday hunting for more voltage on the car 
I started by putting new earth straps on for both battery to body and battery to engine, this gave me Altenator 14.1V altenator with earth on battery 14.1V battery 13.7v various points in the car 13.6v fuel pump 13.68v SECS monitor 13.3v all readings hot idle all electrics off. I then decided to check what voltage I was getting in and out of the relay that switches/ powers the ecu 13.6 volts, I then traced the supply wire to the ecu and found it to be interrupted by my imobilisor circuit! I think I have my 0.3V and will check tomorrow. Any ideas why I see 14. at the altenator and 13,7 at the battery, I have removed the altenator terminal and cleaned it all and the same for the other end, also checked the resistance of the wire which showed 4 ohms. Do I need to replace the wire from the altenator to the battery?
I started by putting new earth straps on for both battery to body and battery to engine, this gave me Altenator 14.1V altenator with earth on battery 14.1V battery 13.7v various points in the car 13.6v fuel pump 13.68v SECS monitor 13.3v all readings hot idle all electrics off. I then decided to check what voltage I was getting in and out of the relay that switches/ powers the ecu 13.6 volts, I then traced the supply wire to the ecu and found it to be interrupted by my imobilisor circuit! I think I have my 0.3V and will check tomorrow. Any ideas why I see 14. at the altenator and 13,7 at the battery, I have removed the altenator terminal and cleaned it all and the same for the other end, also checked the resistance of the wire which showed 4 ohms. Do I need to replace the wire from the altenator to the battery?
10-09-2006, 08:59 PM
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Hmm, aint that lamda figure you mention on the SUN gas analyzer something completet different than the lambda AFR? I thought it was a figure that you got from adding up the different values like CO and HC und so weiter...?
10-09-2006, 09:04 PM
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Originally Posted by Rick
4 ohms is very bad. You should have a reading of zero ohms.
I will replace the wire to be sure that its ok and hopefully see more voltage at the battery
10-09-2006, 09:41 PM
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the best way to test the operation is if you can get hold of an oscilloscope, or lots of later Mot gas analysers have a lambda test function
measure the signal and it should look like mine, alternating from rich to weak around the stoich. point
measuring lambda and CO are not ideal as an exhaust blow will raise lambda and drop CO
which sun analyser was it , dga 1800 or 2500? was the reading you're talking about at the top or bottom of the screen?
cheers
Stu
measure the signal and it should look like mine, alternating from rich to weak around the stoich. point
measuring lambda and CO are not ideal as an exhaust blow will raise lambda and drop CO
which sun analyser was it , dga 1800 or 2500? was the reading you're talking about at the top or bottom of the screen?
cheers
Stu
10-09-2006, 09:44 PM
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Originally Posted by Andreas
Hmm, aint that lamda figure you mention on the SUN gas analyzer something completet different than the lambda AFR? I thought it was a figure that you got from adding up the different values like CO and HC und so weiter...?
11-09-2006, 12:24 PM
#28
does the fuel adjust even make a difference to the car at idle? surely if the car is in the parameters of closed loop ,whatever you do to the mixture it will set itself to lambda 1, thats the whole point of it?
The fuel adjuster changes the fueling on the original map when out of closed loop parameter, im probably completley wrong!!
The fuel adjuster changes the fueling on the original map when out of closed loop parameter, im probably completley wrong!!
11-09-2006, 12:55 PM
#29
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stu can you please move to london and set up a garage here so i can get you to insall my closed loop chip, as i thought it was plug and play, but it seems there is more too it.
i know a good estate agent
i know a good estate agent
11-09-2006, 01:13 PM
#31
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Originally Posted by JTECHSAFF
i did mine myself ,as long as the car is set up as Stu recomends ,ie fuel pressure/boost, and all sensors are working and correct, all you will need is a fueling check after to make sure its good and thats it. 
i feel i may have a long drive ahead when i want this done, at least i'll use less fuel on the way back
11-09-2006, 03:02 PM
#39
Originally Posted by JTECHSAFF
does the fuel adjust even make a difference to the car at idle? surely if the car is in the parameters of closed loop ,whatever you do to the mixture it will set itself to lambda 1, thats the whole point of it?
The fuel adjuster changes the fueling on the original map when out of closed loop parameter, im probably completley wrong!!
The fuel adjuster changes the fueling on the original map when out of closed loop parameter, im probably completley wrong!!
am i right stu?