collierm

I want to fit one to the Cossie. I rang Elephant and asked how it affects my policy and they said they weren't sure if they were legal, so I contacted the local Plod, and they couldn't tell me either.

Can anyone give me an answer on where I stand with these and if my insurance is invalidated and can the plod nick me for leaving a car unattended with the engine running.

Doing my nut having to sit in the car for 10 minutes waiting for it to idle and settle down.

Thrush

iTrader: (1)

I can see virtually no reason at all why they wouldn't be legal, but I can't tell you if they are or are not legal.

And as for idling, what you actually acheive with a turbo car by sitting at idle for xx mins is letting the turbo blades slow down to idle speed. Turbo blades can spi at upto 250,000 rpm (something like this, of course it depends on the turbo spec) and if you cut the ignition they will continue to spin but the oil suppply will be cut off. This means they are dry-spinning and over time this will shorten the life of the bearings and shaft.

Anyway, the point is this - even on cars that have taken a MASSIVE hammering for upto an hour, I have never seen one idle on a turbo timer for more than 4 or 5 mins - so no reason you have to sit there for 10 mins!

Same with sitting at start up - no reason you have to sit for more than 2 or 3 mins - all you are doing is letting the oil warm up in the engine improving it's flow and thinning it out - it does this within minutes, so people who sit there for 5/10 mins before driving are simply wasting petrol...

adamS2RST

I've heard before that alot of insurance co's wont insure with them? Only what I have heard though... Perhaps Tony @ Greenlight can confirm

collierm

Quote:

Originally Posted by Thrush

I can see virtually no reason at all why they wouldn't be legal, but I can't tell you if they are or are not legal.

And as for idling, what you actually acheive with a turbo car by sitting at idle for xx mins is letting the turbo blades slow down to idle speed. Turbo blades can spi at upto 250,000 rpm (something like this, of course it depends on the turbo spec) and if you cut the ignition they will continue to spin but the oil suppply will be cut off. This means they are dry-spinning and over time this will shorten the life of the bearings and shaft.

Fair point.

collierm

So it can be specific to insurance companies. The thing I'm more concerned about though is getting stopped by the police for leaving a car while blah blah blah.

Don't want to waste my money on something if its illegal.

dave cos4x4

iTrader: (5)

Doing my nut having to sit in the car for 10 minutes waiting for it to idle and settle down.


don't kill the thing then on the way home then.

no need for it to cool down then.

collierm

Yeah OK, I don't boot it all the time. But I'm never sure how long is enough to prolong the life of the turbo so 10 mins is just me guessing, better too much than too little.

Still though, rather a turbo timer than me doing it . Hence the reason for the post.

Mr S1

iTrader: (2)

All I do is for the last 5 / 10 mins home is just take it easy after I've been giving it berries..............

dave cos4x4

iTrader: (5)

EIL132

Exactly

boon

I seem to remember hearing somewhere that it's an offence to leave a car unattended with the engine running. Probably the sort of thing the coppers would turn a blind eye to unless you got cocky. Not sure where that leaves you with insurance though.

*Bri.4.b.Cos*

I think its more to do with cooling the core of the turbo and thus the engine rather than letting the blades slow down

Bri.

dave cos4x4

iTrader: (5)

is that with the keys in though.

collierm

Whoa time out. I just want to know about turbo timers, not what part of me turbo gets the most special attention over time.

Bri - you got any dates for meets up North. Moving to Great Ayton in 6 weeks and don't know any fooker.

dannyblackpool

After ragging the life out of the car and killing the engine the oil flow through unit stops,the shaft doesnt, the shaft now does 2 things either pushes the rest of the oil away or burns it due to massive temperatures through friction and lack of flow. The shaft is still spinning and is now dry and come to rest on the core bearings, With the immense heat the shaft litterally fuses itself the the core bearings (or can do) Next time the car fires up it breaks free and spins up again but has already damaged the bearings. The burnt oil has now also filled the core assembly with large carbon deposits,blocking oilways and leaving via the oil return into the engines sump, so engine now has foreign matter which can cause engine damage. Expansion of shaft under extreme heat also causes it nip up core bearings and damage can occur to both shaft and bearings aswell as core.

A Whole core assembly can become scrap through this treatment although it is an extreme.

A bear minimum for shutdown after a hard run i advise is idle until cooling fan cuts out to let a steady cooler flow of oil get around the core. Ideally the last 5 minutes of your jouney are best off boost


Far more technical jargon but an idea,appologies for any typos/mistakes, its been a LONG day

Ian M500COS

To answer the question of the thread a PC acquaintance of mine once told me "it is against the law to leave a motor vehicle with it's engine running unattended on a public highway".

dave cos4x4

iTrader: (5)

what if its up the path.

focusv8

Highway code rule 214. "Must" means its Law

Parking

214: Use off-street parking areas, or bays marked out with white lines on the road as parking places, wherever possible. If you have to stop on the road side

* stop as close as you can to the side
* do not stop too close to a vehicle displaying a Blue Badge, remember, they may need more room to get in or out
* you MUST switch off the engine, headlights and fog lights
* you MUST apply the handbrake before leaving the vehicle
* you MUST ensure you do not hit anyone when you open your door
* it is safer for your passengers (especially children) to get out of the vehicle on the side next to the kerb
* lock your vehicle.
Laws CSDPA sect 21, CUR reg 98,105 & 107, RVLR reg 27 & RTA 1988 sect 42

Thrush

iTrader: (1)

It can't be, or at least so long as there is a theft precaution device controlling it. Reason I say this is all our company work vans are now being equipped with a switch you flick before turning off. Kill the ignition and the engine continues to run/ But if you engage a gear or release the handbrake, the engine dies. Working for Autoglass, the worlds biggest automotive glass replacement company, there is no way they could do this if it wasn't legal.

A turbo timer works in the same way, you take the keys out the ignition and the engine continues to run - you can even lock the car and active the alarm and immobiliser! If the handbrake is released, or gear engaged, or throttle pressed (whichever way it has been wired in) the engine will cut and the immobiliser will go live - this way the car cannot be stolen.

collierm

* you MUST ensure you do not hit anyone when you open your door

Duh, never realised that. better go tell all those cyclists I twatted to ring the national accident helpline for some cash.

Tony @ Greenlight

Hi guys,

Thrush's description is also our understanding of the situation and as you say trying to pin down anyone of authority inevitably results in an er... erm... response as they dont seem to be able to categorically confirm one way or another.

From an Underwriters perspective they always look at their own exposure to risk. The manufacturers maintain that the device acts as described above and if this is to be believed it will not represent an additional risk.

We have several underwriters that will entertain this modification and are happy to approach them on your behalf should any of our existing or prospective clients need us to do so.

Kind regards

Tony

Carlsworth

they should be ILLEGAL really,.....


due to the fact that leaving your car running while your not there is called "quitting", and also illegal


carl

JTECH James

iTrader: (13)

most alarms dont let you arm up when the engine is running anyway, and i wouldnt leave my car unalarmed just locked, so i would end up waiting for the timer to cut the engine so i could alarm the car.......pointless really.

zippyobrien

iTrader: (2)

there are illegal, and if u have an accident with one fitted, u are not covered, also, when u get pulled by the plod, and they ask u to turn the car of and get it out, they dont look to impressed when it carries on running, lol

nearly impounded mine

Jim Galbally

the highway code is NOT the law, so if its in the highway code it doesnt make it illegal

Oranoco

After a conversation with a legal begal it seems it IS an offence to leave the engine running and the cra unattended.

To be honest I think they are a total waste of time and money. Just drive the last few miles home with your right foot not nailed to the carpet and you won't have to sit there waiting for ages for it to cool or spend £??? on a bit of kit that is legally unusable

foreigneRS

surely a car sat there with the engine running and nobody in it is far more tempting to a thief than one without? he doesn't necessarily know that the engine will stop as soon as handbrake/accelerator/indicator or whatever is used.

even if they have to break a window to get in, as the doors will be locked, there could be a claim on the underwriter, hence there is an increased chance of them paying out if such a device is fitted isn't there?

andyhardy

It'd be funny if it's illegal, as the police have very similar equipment fitted to their cars to prevent batteries from being drained by all the equipment they run. You press the throttle or put it in gear and the engine shuts off, etc.

So are the cops breaking the law then?

Sounds like a very grey area to me!

Andy

Lambchop

iTrader: (1)

well with the clifford 500 or whatever it was that i had you could set turbo timer and get out and press the fob which sets the alarm as if the car is off!

so ner

Carlsworth

well,....

just been chatting to my sister boyfriend, about general shit really, and asked him,.....hes a copper, and says that yes,....they are illegal,....on the public highway, but not on privately owned land


carl

collierm

OK, thanks Tony, I'll check with my insurance company first and see what they say. If its no go, I'll be giving you a call come renewal time

saff_cossie

My 2c - They are illegal here. As far as I remember from the UK, it is an offence to leave your vehicle running unattended. The example used several years ago was the people who stop at the post office and grab the morning paper but leave the car on.

From what I know and remember they are not illegal in the UK however on the technicality that you cant leave your car unattended, there is little point in having one as you would have to remain in your car. Maybe not on your own property but not sure there.

I also thought idle was only supposed to be 3-5 minutes after boost not up to 10 as some people have been saying.

xr4x4rs

iTrader: (5)

ive always thought they are illegal aswell

as mentioned its against the law to have a car running unattended

my mate got done for leaving his car running while he was just sat on the bonnet chatting

also im sure somewhere down the lines its classed as hot wiring

how else can a car be running with no keys in the ignition

but ive always let my turbos cool down after a hard run for about 5 mins

would rather sit in the car than leave it running and im not there