Wastegate Chatter
05-02-2005, 07:58 PM
#6
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Originally Posted by nice_head
its running at 22psi at the mo. My bro has got a cossie aswell and he has the dump valve at low revs and the wastegate at high revs but all i have is the dump valve sound..
06-02-2005, 01:29 PM
#7
Chasing Radders
You dont HAVE to run a dump valve on a cossie unless it is running a T4 turbo or higher.
On that boost, 22psi, running no dump valve wont cause any damage TBH
I ran a T3 at 27psi with no dumpvalve for over 8k mile. Took the turbo off and it was fine.
As for chatter, just take the dumpvalve off, block it up and away you go
On that boost, 22psi, running no dump valve wont cause any damage TBH
I ran a T3 at 27psi with no dumpvalve for over 8k mile. Took the turbo off and it was fine.
As for chatter, just take the dumpvalve off, block it up and away you go
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06-02-2005, 06:28 PM
#8
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i run 28psi no dv according to tony at turbosystems that's fine with my t34 and he should know he's been doing cossys long enuff. this topic seems to crop up alot and hectori always has an opinion i have noticed. it will be a battle of dv freaks against chatter lads for the rest of time, i know which side of the fence i am on maybe someone should start a poll on this topic
by the way tiff 3dr on mo's quality move
by the way tiff 3dr on mo's quality move
06-02-2005, 07:14 PM
#9
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i dont mind how it sounds, and i dont care about what you like, but it is sure, that in 25psi, damage will occure. amount of damage depends on many things, but it will happen. your turbo is gonna probably last for some time, but i would not take that risk.
on a T4 the damage is greater, and will break up sooner.
if you know what makes that schatter sound, you know what it does to your turbo.
on a T4 the damage is greater, and will break up sooner.
if you know what makes that schatter sound, you know what it does to your turbo.
07-02-2005, 10:49 AM
#11
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Originally Posted by Big_Al
chatter sound is not good for your turbo nomatter what they say
adjust your dumpvalve so the pshhhht sound comes (because it´s not propertly adjusted)
adjust your dumpvalve so the pshhhht sound comes (because it´s not propertly adjusted)
explain us why chatter sound is not good
07-02-2005, 01:17 PM
#12
PassionFord Post Troll
Originally Posted by cossiemen
Originally Posted by Big_Al
chatter sound is not good for your turbo nomatter what they say
adjust your dumpvalve so the pshhhht sound comes (because it´s not propertly adjusted)
adjust your dumpvalve so the pshhhht sound comes (because it´s not propertly adjusted)
explain us why chatter sound is not good
with a t-4 it will break sooner..but who said it wont break with a t-34 with 28psi....its a matter of time....
07-02-2005, 02:35 PM
#13
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Originally Posted by wimwerf
cossiemen...if you know how a chatter works....then you know its not good for the turbo....
with a t-4 it will break sooner..but who said it wont break with a t-34 with 28psi....its a matter of time....
07-02-2005, 06:41 PM
#15
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I might be wrong with this question but I think the Chatter will sound different on a 3dr because some cossie engines have different engine numbers 
I heard that from someone on here, i asked the simular question before.
I heard that from someone on here, i asked the simular question before.
07-02-2005, 08:22 PM
#16
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Originally Posted by wimwerf
Originally Posted by cossiemen
Originally Posted by Big_Al
chatter sound is not good for your turbo nomatter what they say
adjust your dumpvalve so the pshhhht sound comes (because it´s not propertly adjusted)
adjust your dumpvalve so the pshhhht sound comes (because it´s not propertly adjusted)
explain us why chatter sound is not good
with a t-4 it will break sooner..but who said it wont break with a t-34 with 28psi....its a matter of time....
09-02-2005, 10:59 AM
#20
Testing the future
come on then. to all those who say that the 'chatter' noise that you hear when running without a dump valve will damage your turbo:
what is the 'chatter' noise?
how is it damaging the turbo?
mabe if you can explain those 2 things, people will respect your opinion. otherwise you have no more case than those that say that it will not damage it.
what is the 'chatter' noise?
how is it damaging the turbo?
mabe if you can explain those 2 things, people will respect your opinion. otherwise you have no more case than those that say that it will not damage it.
09-02-2005, 01:57 PM
#22
PassionFord Post Troll
chatter sound is nothing more then the compressor wheel chopping air which is puss back trough...because the throttle is closed....
sinds when can you here a internal wastegate...?
sinds when can you here a internal wastegate...?
09-02-2005, 07:14 PM
#23
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i cant believe that it needs to be explained why chatter sound may cause damage to your turbo. but here it goes.
chatter sound becomes when compressed air flows back to compressor wheel, when throttle plate cloces. when that air flows back to compressor wing, it will make it momentarily imbalance or tremble, i dont know how to explain that in english, but anyway, the forces between compressor and turbine wheel is greatly diffirent when the compressor wheel isnt rotating freely, and that happens when airflow is pushed back to compressor. and when it spins like 100000rpm per minute, you dont have to be rocket scientist to know that it isnt good for your turbo. DV prevents the air from flowing back to compressor wheel.
forces that create imbalance between compressor and turbine wheels, are greater in hi boost(Mass, Velocity and pressure), and it is surtain, that the damage will occure in greater amounts and in shorter time, when you have hi boost.
chatter sound becomes when compressed air flows back to compressor wheel, when throttle plate cloces. when that air flows back to compressor wing, it will make it momentarily imbalance or tremble, i dont know how to explain that in english, but anyway, the forces between compressor and turbine wheel is greatly diffirent when the compressor wheel isnt rotating freely, and that happens when airflow is pushed back to compressor. and when it spins like 100000rpm per minute, you dont have to be rocket scientist to know that it isnt good for your turbo. DV prevents the air from flowing back to compressor wheel.
forces that create imbalance between compressor and turbine wheels, are greater in hi boost(Mass, Velocity and pressure), and it is surtain, that the damage will occure in greater amounts and in shorter time, when you have hi boost.
09-02-2005, 08:38 PM
#24
PassionFord Post Troll
and why is it you need a dv when you have a t-4....well you can guess you need also one with a t34...but it will take longer to break....and a lot longer with a t3...
09-02-2005, 11:16 PM
#25
Hectori - Air mass is changed with the different turbo but at the same boost level..
read this...very interesting.
https://passionford.com/forum/viewtopic.php?t=25352
read this...very interesting.
https://passionford.com/forum/viewtopic.php?t=25352
10-02-2005, 08:36 AM
#26
Testing the future
hectori,
how much air is there in the intake system (that means between the compressor and the closed throttle plate), on for example a t3 equipped cossie with 4x4 intercooler running at 15 psi and then closing the throttle?
how much more air is there with the same car but at 30 psi?
how much air is the engine consuming past the 'closed' throttle plate when changing gear and the revs are dropping from 6000 rpm?
how much air does that leave to 'rush' back out of the inlet past the compressor and do all of this damage?
how easy is it for the air to escape out past the compressor? it's not like a positive displacement compressor, it's just a fan.
have you ever blown across the top of a bottle? you get a noise, right? but is any damage being done to the bottle?
i am not saying that you're wrong, but consider some points.
incidentally, i run a t3 at 22 psi without d/v. i was watching a tv programme last night called 'greatest rally cars' showing the 3 door cossie when first rallying. these were also running 22 psi without d/v as you coud hear. i know that they do not have the same concers regarding longevity as a road car, but if there was any chance that the turbo would be broken on a rally, i believe that they would not do it.
how much air is there in the intake system (that means between the compressor and the closed throttle plate), on for example a t3 equipped cossie with 4x4 intercooler running at 15 psi and then closing the throttle?
how much more air is there with the same car but at 30 psi?
how much air is the engine consuming past the 'closed' throttle plate when changing gear and the revs are dropping from 6000 rpm?
how much air does that leave to 'rush' back out of the inlet past the compressor and do all of this damage?
how easy is it for the air to escape out past the compressor? it's not like a positive displacement compressor, it's just a fan.
have you ever blown across the top of a bottle? you get a noise, right? but is any damage being done to the bottle?
i am not saying that you're wrong, but consider some points.
incidentally, i run a t3 at 22 psi without d/v. i was watching a tv programme last night called 'greatest rally cars' showing the 3 door cossie when first rallying. these were also running 22 psi without d/v as you coud hear. i know that they do not have the same concers regarding longevity as a road car, but if there was any chance that the turbo would be broken on a rally, i believe that they would not do it.
10-02-2005, 06:31 PM
#27
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Originally Posted by Smit
Hectori - Air mass is changed with the different turbo but at the same boost level..
that link was for gold members, so i cant see what it sayed.
10-02-2005, 06:58 PM
#28
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Originally Posted by foreigneRS
how much air is there in the intake system (that means between the compressor and the closed throttle plate), on for example a t3 equipped cossie with 4x4 intercooler running at 15 psi and then closing the throttle?
how much more air is there with the same car but at 30 psi?
how much more air is there with the same car but at 30 psi?
Originally Posted by foreigneRS
how much air is the engine consuming past the 'closed' throttle plate when changing gear and the revs are dropping from 6000 rpm?
how much air does that leave to 'rush' back out of the inlet past the compressor and do all of this damage?
how much air does that leave to 'rush' back out of the inlet past the compressor and do all of this damage?
Originally Posted by foreigneRS
how easy is it for the air to escape out past the compressor? it's not like a positive displacement compressor, it's just a fan.
Originally Posted by foreigneRS
have you ever blown across the top of a bottle? you get a noise, right? but is any damage being done to the bottle?
that air itself dont damage your turbo, damage will occure BECAUSE of air.
Originally Posted by foreigneRS
i am not saying that you're wrong, but consider some points.
incidentally, i run a t3 at 22 psi without d/v. i was watching a tv programme last night called 'greatest rally cars' showing the 3 door cossie when first rallying. these were also running 22 psi without d/v as you coud hear. i know that they do not have the same concers regarding longevity as a road car, but if there was any chance that the turbo would be broken on a rally, i believe that they would not do it.
incidentally, i run a t3 at 22 psi without d/v. i was watching a tv programme last night called 'greatest rally cars' showing the 3 door cossie when first rallying. these were also running 22 psi without d/v as you coud hear. i know that they do not have the same concers regarding longevity as a road car, but if there was any chance that the turbo would be broken on a rally, i believe that they would not do it.
13-02-2005, 04:41 PM
#29
Testing the future
but amount of airmass, isnt so big of a deal, than velocity and pressure. high pressure usually makes hi velocity. and you know that when you calculate force, the velocity means more than mass. but on bigger boost, the masses are bigger too.
Originally Posted by hectori
even in DV, you could have too small DV, and therefore still have schatter.
Originally Posted by hectori
why does air need to go past compressor? sorry, but i dont understand what are you meaning whit this question? that air will go to compressor wheel, and compressor wheel pushes air back to that throttle plate, and back again to compressor wheel.
Originally Posted by hectori
put your bottle on a pedestal, exactly in the middle so that its in perfectly in balance. make that pedestal spin for 100000rpm and the blow to the bottle. the blow dont brake that bottle, but that blow will make that bottle be inbalace, and it will be thrown of from the pedestal. now try same again, and put on some wings to it, like in compressor wheel.
good discussion so far
13-02-2005, 07:13 PM
#30
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Originally Posted by foreigneRS
we are talking here about a volume of air, certainly way less than 0.5 m^3 with a pressure of 1 or 2 bar above atmospheric going out through a tube with a couple of inches diameter (although much smaller past the turbine). how fast can that air be going? the force would be proportional to the volume flow. very fast air through a small tube does not create a large force, it creates a large pressure perhaps that could do some localised damage.
Originally Posted by foreigneRS
are you sure that it's the dump valve cannot flow enough, or just that the balance of spring and pressures is not correct?
Originally Posted by foreigneRS
the air must go past the compressor wheel whilst the pressure is higher inside the system than outside. it's nature. unless the system is sealed, which it is not as the compressor wheel has a clearance around it.
Originally Posted by foreigneRS
but in a turbo, it will be blowing equally on all sides so will not cause an imbalance.
good discussion so far
good discussion so far
yes, its good always to have a discussion. it is kinda hard to explain this, when its not in my native language. but bare whit me.
19-02-2005, 08:05 PM
#33
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my idea is thrash it trash it rebuild it faster not bore people with bullshit about physics i bet the winter evenings fly by in your household you boring twat
19-02-2005, 10:45 PM
#35
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small and little hey! someone seems flustered a tad maybe you may have finished it off with maybe (na,na,ne,na,na) or (i will tell my mum of you) i don't need to sound cool i am cool you however are obviuosly a nerd and should post in the volvo owners club not cosworth, this may be trying to sound cool to you but i call it sarcasm along with the rest of the poulation of earth. take your obviuosly massive balls and go home to mummy
20-02-2005, 04:06 PM
#40
PassionFord Post Troll
This topic seems to have got out of hand, and over what!! Dumping or chatter
So most of you have seen the Jeremy Clarkson dvd with the ten escos's? Well whos escoc does JC drive around the track? Hmmm a 400bhp escos owned by Mark Shead, and what can we hear?? CHATTER!
Enough said with regards to damage.
So most of you have seen the Jeremy Clarkson dvd with the ten escos's? Well whos escoc does JC drive around the track? Hmmm a 400bhp escos owned by Mark Shead, and what can we hear?? CHATTER!
Enough said with regards to damage.