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Where can I find a NEW S1 Relay? The Relay was missing. Bought the S1 three years ago and was in DRY STORGE.
Yesterday S1 started with perfect timing and sounded GREAT! S1 started with external battery (HARD WIRING). Please advise! Regards
From ex Auto sparks 50 years...now retired 75 , Fully conversant with "Bosch K & KE " Systems, the early S1s used a silver relay as you all know...later S2s used ether "Siemans" grey relay...or "Fords pink relay" the later relay S2s is a much better relay and can be used on S1s, the terminal numbers on Early silver relay..ie..."15"..."87"..."30"..."31"..."1" are all on the Pink & Grey relays as well...so just swap over...you will note the Silver relay has 1 more terminal ...ie "50"..just tape up safe...NOT used on later relays....Just for info wiring colurs are [ "30" Red ]...["15" Black]...["87" Red/black tracer ]...["31" Brown ]... [" 1 " Green/red tracer ]. Hope of help. Pete.
Hi Pete, I find a Black relay has "15"..."87"..."30"..."31"..."1" ..."50"...and "87b". Can I just tape up safe "87b" for my S1?
Many Thanks for your advice in advance. Tony
Hi Pete, I find a Black relay has "15"..."87"..."30"..."31"..."1" ..."50"...and "87b". Can I just tape up safe "87b" for my S1?
Many Thanks for your advice in advance. Tony
Yes 87 will be Pump & Fast idle Valve....50 / 87b not used, take it this is a relay from a non Ford car...double check every thing before starting...so 15 will only come live when ignition on....30 will be a permanent live....31 will be negative / earth...87 will be Pump / fast idle valve....1 will be the signal from the ignition Silver ECU. Pete
Wish OAP Pete lived round the corner from me, man should have a shedload of thanks! Rs Turbo electrics seem like rocket science for the supposed auto sparks round here:-(
Hi Pete, ACCORDING : www.injection...ulletin75pdf
Ford RELAY: V85AB9P 704 BA has PIN 87 and an extra PIN 87B.
Just read the above pdf.
Relay PIN 87 - Power supply to EFI system connected to all EFI related components, when require a12 volt supply. Whilst cranking or running, battery voltage should be presented.
Relay PIN 87B - Power supply to fuel pump connected to the positive terminal of the fuel pump. With the engine cranking and running, battery voltage should be present.
The S1 Relay has PINS: 15...30... 31... 1... 87.. 50.
Relay V85AB9P 704 BA has : 15...30...1...87...87b...50.
As I only find the Ford Relay Part (V85AB 704 BA)
Can I use the PIN 87b instead of PIN 87?
Thanks your helps in advance.
Tony
Im taking it you have a relay "V85AB9P 704"...The numbers on that relay [ your missing one as you write]...31 ...15..30..1...87...87b...50..OK, that relay will be ok for a Ford....you can now connect 50 as its on your wiring loom, 87b ..is for a second output ...the relay sounds to be being for a VW golf that in the day used 2 Fuel pumps..1 Primer at Tank..ie 87b..1 High pressure pump on chassie..87, in your case nothing need to go on 87b, as your be using 50, this circuit is in fact Starter motor...so not only does the relay see a ignition pulse , but needs to know starter is turning. Fords done away with this as for Safety reasons when the S2 was introduced....reason why...if the car say in accident / broke down, even if the Ignition pulse was no longer there due to damage... broken pipe ?...who knows...cranking the engine would bring in the Pump again, possible spraying petrol everywhere, so the "better Pink" relay was introduced ..to recap..31..15..30..1..87..50..can be used on your car..87b not needed. hope ok..Pete.
Hi Pete, I bought a LUCAS FDR506 Relay had same part number as "V85AB9P 704 AA" from Ebay few days ago. This is same relay uses in my Red Peugeot 205 GTI 1.9 (Year 1993). I shall install the relay tomorrow. Thank you for all the advice! Best Regards ...Tony
Hi Pete, This morning I tried to install the S2 Fuel Pump Relay and found the Speed Sensing Module also missing. So I bought a Speed Sensing Module (Bosch 83 AB 128 526-AB MADE IN GERMANY) . Please send me cable installation plan ( Colour Cables Reference and Pin Reference Number). Many Thanks in Advance. Tony
You have lost me now...speed sensing..only engine speed used to trigger the "1" terminal on Fuel pump relay, this signal comes from the Silver ECU in engine compartment, this signal is generated by the "Hall effect" Ignition distributor, Signal arrives at Pin 1 of the Silver ECU and also runs Rev counter, and of course Fuel Pump relay , ive no idea what you have there...has the car been modified etc ??...Googled the number of relay you mention..no information. that's the standard Engine speed pick - up for "K" & " KE" systems S1 / S2. as I write. Pete.
This afternoon I installed the S2 Fuel Pump Relay (Fuel Parts, FPR7997)...30...87...1...15...31.
(1).When I turned the ignition Key, Fuel PUMP stopped in ONE SECOND. May be the new relay was defective?
(2.) So I HARD WIRED the terminal 30 and 87 and the engine started perfectly.
(3) I connected the LUCAS FDR506 Relay (with terminal...50). The engine did not start.
(4) There were two empty terminal holders (RIGHT HAND SIDE IS for FUEL PUMP RELAY), LEFT HAND (red) holder MISSING RELAY (any idea).
My mechanic said we do a Sparks to help us to solve these problems. We are completely loss. Tony
OK first your fitting Relays from other cars...not Ford..now no problem on this...if I were there could sort..but im not...I do wonder I have to say why not get the later S2 Pink relay ??...there still available in sure. But now I write how to test each circuit for your engineer there. First don't expect ALL relays you might have to "Buzz" the Pump on first turning on Ignition, "Yes" lots do...but must not be assumed faulty if not, proper test, Ignition "on"...turn very..very.. briefly to start position, listen for Pump to Buzz for second or 2 before stopping. before going on I want you to test the "Pulse" for me, bridge 30 / 87 as you have been doing..start..with a Multi-meter set to "AC" volts, negative probe to earth -...Pos probe touch on Pulse wire..[1] green/red slate, do you read a "pulse"..rev engine a little...pulse changes..don't worry if engine, stumbles slightly..normal on this test..that circuit wont like seeing a meter. all OK...connect connect all other wires as ive said...30 Red live all the time...15 Black live on Ign only....87 Red/Black...Pump feed..31 Brown will be earth...if your using a relay with 50...then connect it...if with a Pink correct relay or others...then of course NOT used. with all these circuits correct, car must start. unless you have Duff relay ?, If by any chance "no AC pulse present"..then there is a wiring fault, certainly back in the day saw "Fools" connecting imobiliser systems into this circuit.."wrong". Hope of help to you. Pete
Hi Pete, The S1 Fuel Pump Relay (V85AB9P704 BA) has just arrived this morning. I shall install it tomorrow morning! Thanks for all your advices for non Ford Fuel Pump Relay! Best Regards Tony
Hi Pete, Just tested the S1 SILVER Fuel Pump Relay (V85ab9p704 BA) from Ebay.co.uk. There was STILL no power to Fuel Pump. The engine worked with HARD WIRING. May be this is a duff relay. I bought two Silver relays (This relay has all pins and another relay has one missing pin) from a Ebay. Can I send them two relays to you for repair? Please give a quote for repairing two relays. Many thanks in advance. Tony
Hi Pete, Just tested the S1 SILVER Fuel Pump Relay (V85ab9p704 BA) from Ebay.co.uk. There was STILL no power to Fuel Pump. The engine worked with HARD WIRING. May be this is a duff relay. I bought two Silver relays (This relay has all pins and another relay has one missing pin) from a Ebay. Can I send them two relays to you for repair? Please give a quote for repairing two relays. Many thanks in advance. Tony
Cant understand new relays being faulty, have or your engineer there checked all the circuits on wiring....ie... well 30 / 87 must be OK as you can get the engine started...have you made sure 15 is live with Ign on...is 31 a good earth, make sure with test lamp....have you tested [1] with a meter as advised ?...any relay you have that has 50 terminal...then your S1 has a 50 wire and should be connected, to test 50 circuit, probe with test lamp, turn key to start, test lamp will light .
Hi Pete
Those two silver relay are second hands from Ebay.
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EMAIL: FROM EBAY SELLER ...
"Hi my father was a mother mechcanic and he died 7 yrs ago the parts I’m selling are his old stock I keep coming across different parts if there is anything else I find I will let you know there is another fuel pump relay that has a terminal missing that you can have for Ł30 if you know someone who can fix them it would be a great spare because believe me they do give problems"
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I bought the FIRST used Silver fuel pump relay (V85 AB9P704 BA) on last Friday. I tested the relay this afternoon but shown no power to fuel pump. When I connected 30 and 87 terminals the S1 started perfectly.
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I bought the second missing one pin relay (Ł30.00) this afternoon.
Can you repair both SILVER REPLY for me? What is the repair cost for two relay?
Regards Tony
But have you or someone with knowledge where you are checked the 5 circuits you need for any Injection relay to operate...even 6 circuits in the case of S1s, I make no comment on second hand relays... something tells me you have a wiring fault there...ive explained the system as it should be on S1s and S2s...S2 Pink relay replaces the early Silver relay, but ALL circuits must be present...the only 2 circuits I see as being present from what you write are 30 / 87.
.something is missing there re - wiring fault. Ive found a few companys on the net who sell this relay for all Escorts. you may have to find an Auto sparks your end, as I am and was, to know exactly how as I do to check all 4 or 5 depending on relay you have. best I can help. Peter
Last edited by OAP Pete; 09-07-2018 at 07:20 AM.
Reason: last statment incorrect, should say 5 or 6 terminals
Yes, I did buy the S2 Relay (same as your picture). Also I have found a copy (AUTODATA 1989/90 FUEL INJECTION MANUAL FOR PETROL ENGINES. ON PAGE 239 FIG. 14 LOCATION OF SAFELY CIRCUIT RELAY ( S1 fuel pump relay). I do have two defective S1 fuel pump relay. Can you repair them for me?
Tony
Yes, I did buy the S2 Relay (same as your picture). Also I have found a copy (AUTODATA 1989/90 FUEL INJECTION MANUAL FOR PETROL ENGINES. ON PAGE 239 FIG. 14 LOCATION OF SAFELY CIRCUIT RELAY ( S1 fuel pump relay). I do have two defective S1 fuel pump relay. Can you repair them for me?
Tony
There not worth messing with Tony i cant get involved with that, they get over loaded...heat up etc, all RS Fords i had [6] i allways fitted upgrade in wiring and another relay after Pink relay, situated in boot....then 13.8/14 volt allways at pump then Pink relay last for ever, im still not certain all circuit systems have been checked? i know 87 / 30 are ok, as engine runs...but so many relays you have..all duff !..??? The pic i sent is one that would be OK, just don't use 50 wire, did you get new one ?...or second hand ?...something not right. best i can help. Pete
What I see there is some wires for Fuel relay "cut" its clear to me the car has been "got at"..moded in the past...perhaps to fit some non-standard relay, i advise you get a Auto sparks your end to sort out, or rewire your self at least a good Fuel pump relay, you have there 30 Live...you have 87 Pump / Fast idle control, i can write exactly what to do re - the 3 missing or not circuits, i will look carefully at pics....but as your not Auto sparks may be better to advise how to make and connect the other 3 missing, at least you would have car on "the Key" as it were, lots of the other relays there were to do with the complicated "Dim-Dip" system on the cars back then, it was a legal requirement then. Pete.
Hi Pete,
ALARM HAD SWITCHED OFF!
1. Installed the S1 Relay SILVER V85 AB 9P704 BA) and BLUE HEADLAMP "DIM-DIP" Relay.
2. S1 MOTOR started perfectly.
3. Front screen Wiper CAME ON.
4. Head lamp screen washer ON.
5. Disconnect Had lamp washer.
A. Found a connecter has been disconnected.
B. Alarm wiring needs attention!
Please found attached photos
Tony
Hi Pete, The photo No.3 I did not connect the cable. this cable part of the " Alarm system"? Thank you for the most helpful advices ( nine replys ). I shall find a local Alarm Engineer to remove all old alarm systems. Best Regards Tony
Hi Pete (OAP Pete),
The mechanic tested all the relay wiring terminals (Per your instructions).
The test was perfect!
1. Two new relays had been installed.
2. The mechanic told me the fuel pump had an intermittent faults (started for 20 seconds).
3. The engine did run for five minutes (Drove S1 out of the garage).
4.The mechanic asked me the buy a new pump.
5. I bought a new Bosch Fuel Pump (Arrives this Saturday).
6. Also I bought a new 044 Fuel Pump Rewire Loom (Arrives this Saturday).
I hope the new Pump and Fuel Pump Loom will solve the problem.
Please advise.
Best Regards Tony
OK yes the Pump re-wire loom takes all the load of the Fuel pump relay...so they never give trouble then, essentual if a new 044 Pump used as those pull 12amps...where the standard pulls 10amps ..but a must mod anyway as takes away any volt drop over years , your find with the loom kit your getting, should have another relay that is fitted in boot, a heavy new wire 5mm [ no less] will need running from the "Pos+" terminal of battery with a Fuse holder there and 30amp Fuse fitted for safety. in the boot the 5mm wire will connect to new Relay pin 30...pin 86 /85 will now be the 2 wires that at the moment are on the Pump 86 brown / 85 Red/black, these wires re - routed to inside boot, 2 new 5mm heavy wires ...one from pin 87 relay, other to a good earth...both run out of boot to new pump 87 being Pump +. Do note its a fact that the Tanks rust from the inside over years, your car may have new Tank ?, the rust Debre wrecks pumps, when you get old pump off, look in to see if any Rust there, hope of help. OAP Pete
Hi Pete, Sorry to contact you again. My mechanic installed a new pump 6 months ago. If I hot wired the terminal 1 to terminal 30 I could hear the pump working sound for 1 or 2 minutes. My Mechanic has gone for one month holiday in India. Someone told me I should bypass the Alarm. Thank you for all the helps
Bit of a loss at what problem you have now, did the moded loom get fitted, ie relay in boot ??, you mention Bridging 30 with 1 take it on the Pink relay under dash, that's wrong !, to tempary bridge out the Pink relay its terminals 15 and 87 must be used there , then turning on Ignition the Relay for the Pump in boot will activate, but remember its only to get going, must be put back to normal as soon as fault found, 30 12v power should never be put to terminal "1" as could damage the silver ECU. im assuming you have Pink relay and the upgrade Relay and wiring in boot. .........what fault do you have. Peter
Hi Pete, I just bought another a second hand Silver Relay with terminal 50. I tested the fuel pump relay terminals this afternoon. The terminal (1) had power but no power on Terminal (30). Owner workshop manual said there is a Fuse to BUBBAR. Thank you for your helps in advance. Best Regards Tony
Terminal 1 you say power...but in fact when ignition on that's ign power through the coil windings, when cranking changes to "Negative Pulse", Terminal 30 must have live all the time, so you need to check all the Fuses with the colure Red wires ...live all the time..no ignition on, so car wont start without 30...go through the fuse boxes, look at the Fuseable links on the main Positive battery terminal...if imobiliser fitted...some broke into 30. should be easy to find...Peter...
28-06-2018, 08:07 AM
V85 AB 9P704 BA) and BLUE HEADLAMP "DIM-DIP" Relay.
