RSandy

iTrader: (1)

really starting to get disheartened with these now, so either need some answers or will have to move on from them

i bought them not for improving handling, but for the (stupid in some peoples eyes) reason of gettin my car LOW! just looks, nothing more, nothing less

but trying to run a combination of mega low and 17x7.5 et40 MO's on 205 40 17 tyres, im really struggling to get my wheels to fit! i mean physically i just cant find enough room between the coilover unit and the arch to fit my wheel in there. iv got a rear disc conversion, plus 5mm spacers, so that equates to et30, and iv tried manipulating the bolts in the elongated holes in the hubs for the shock mounts, so get the wheels as close to the coilover as poss, so i can clear the arches, but im stuck, and i either have wheel/tyre hitting the coilover or tyre hitting arch. arches fully rolled etc

does anybody have any possible ideas to solve this? maybe narrower springs if thats a possibility? they are gaz coilovers.

any suggestions welcome, except for saying raise the car, cos thats kind of defeating the object of what im trying to achieve lol

also, am i missing something, but how the hell do people accurately fit their shocks on to the hubs when the holes are elongated? how do u know u have the same geometry both sides?

if i cant make the coilovers work, somebody make a new home for them, cos im going back to konis and chopped lowering springs

luke19790_3

How low is it, i've got gaz gold with 16's and I don't need spacers also running cossie disc setup

RSandy

iTrader: (1)

a little lower than this now

its low enough that i had to make custom shorter top hats for the coilovers cos the standard 1s bottomed out lol

but still, its not silly silly low, but my arch is virtually sat on the tyre, and yet the inside edge of the tyre and wheel are rubbing the coilover spring

luke19790_3

why go that low?

luke19790_3

i wouldn't go any lower then that picture

Versus_Creations

iTrader: (1)

There are a few things that is not perfect really.

Note:- No holes should be sloted ? Where is this excatly?

Firstly 17in wheels are too big. 16in wheels are perfect. With 205/40/16
Then the et40 again with 17in wheels is not perfect,
The 205 tyres you have would be better 215 (But would make it even more difficulty to sort.)
Its too low which is obvious. It will mess up the brake bias unless you have sorted the lines and compensators some way.
Then lastly i dont really like the budget range of coilovers on a mk3/4. Would rather adjustable konis. Unless you have some decent coilovers with correct rated srpings etc.


As for size of spring i use 2.75in springs on my cars (although they have cosworth engines some not a great comparision.)

Regards

RSandy

iTrader: (1)

the holes arent slotted as such, its the holes in the rear stub axle/hub where the strut bolts go through, the holes in the hubs arent exact size, so the bolt can be manipulated, if that makes sense? i hadnt even noticed until another member on here pointed it out to me. so it allows the wheel to be cambered in or out slightly. its not a massive elongation of the hole, but enough to cause an issue. same both sides, so i know it cant be just my car with this?

as for brake bias, its not an issue, as the diagnoal split system has been ditched, and i now run a fully braided set-up with a front and rear split, and the rear has an inline bias valve fitted in-car.

like iv said, its a show pony, and the ride height of a car is a personal preference, its like me saying why run your car higher than mine? its purely a looks thing, and i like it running low. im aware its impractical, and wont handle like a well sorted track car, but thats not what it is

i just was after some answers really, if its possible, or if im fighting a losing battle with these.

Versus_Creations

iTrader: (1)

The bolts that hold the rear shocks to the hubs, sound like they are not the correct type as there is no movment in these once fitted correctly. Buy 4x original bolts and stop this movment. The hubs will not need to be adjusted in this way as its not safe enough. If you really want to mess with the camber you would need to fit the 6link adjustable rear setup.




Pretty much fighting a losing battle, you say its for looks so no real point in fitting decent adjustable rear end to it (value for money) just to fit a set of wheels.

Fit a set of skirts that will make it look lower

luke19790_3

have you tried trimming the arch, grinder should do the job

RSandy

iTrader: (1)

my bolts are genuine ford jobbies, and they are a perfect fit for the holes in the shock itself, just the holes thru the hub itself are slightly bigger. id say it was the hub that was wrong, but the other side is an exact match, and they are the same 1s that have always been on the car. am i genuinely the only person to have this issue or sumthin? i put up a similar post in the past and some1 else pointed it out to me, thats when i noticed it

trimming the arches isnt an option, cos the lips have been rolled flat, and welded up and sealed, so there is no arch lip at all

fitting the kit is another problem altogether i have a kit ready to fit, but as it stands that needs to be fitted, and then the lips of that ground down flush with the arch to clear the tyre lol

i can see me having to completely strip a rear hub off of the car to take pics of the holes im talking about, and if they are both somehow completely wrong, then i will have to source new hubs entirely

Rob_DOHC

iTrader: (4)

If you really need it that low (i think your mad) i used coil overs on the front and bought springs from rally design for the rear, -1" looked like this



They also stock a -2" which i think would be as low as yours. Then your wheels wouldn't hit the spring.

Rob,

Rob_DOHC

iTrader: (4)

And PS, i found it shite to drive so raised it by 20mm. Bump steering all over the place, every speed bump was a night mare, every drive i reversed down removed a chunk of my back box.

So as low as yours with 17's on should probably make it drive like a 3 legged dog thats eaten half a back of cement.

muz

I'm not sure why your set up is causing headaches, Andy. My setup is very similar to yours and I don't have any problems.

Leda 2.25 coilovers with Faulkner 180LB springs
Compmotive MO 8x17 ET 35
205/45/17 tyres
Bigger rear discs being a 28mm x 300 IIRC bell and rota set up orginally for the front of a car with Brembos

and I only had to shave my rear arches to stop them catching.







One thing I don't like is the origonal top hats and narrow strut of the ERST so am looking at putting bigger front turrets in the rear with Compbrake solid top mounts, but this probably won't solve your problem.

muz

Your using the same tyres as me also. It may be becuase your so low the tyres catching all the way round, whereas mine only caught in a 2inch long strip at the top.

Aslo with regards to catching the coilover, mines close but theres 5-6mm gap but I suppose the ET of my wheel and thicker disc must make up for that.

RSandy

iTrader: (1)

im startin to think my rear stub axle/hubs might be fucked or sumthin, as if i loosen the bolts that hold the rear shock to the hub, i can actually manipulate the wheel and move the camber angle, thus the holes in the stub axle/hub must be elongated to allow this to happen? the bolts themselves are tight thru the holes in the shock tho, and are genuine new ford bolts and nuts and washers.

this is the only pic i have of my rear hubs before they were refurb'd



its hard to tell in the pic, but im sure on BOTH stub axles, of the 2 holes that the bolts for the shock pass thru, the lower hole is elongated slightly, and as such allows the bolt to move inwards and outwards, thus allowing the wheel to camber in/out slightly. a slight movement here obviously equates to a lot more over the full wheel. once done up the bolts dont actually move, but its in doing them up they can move around and not be the same both sides

hope that makes some sense and some1 can say for sure if they fucked or if thats normal

RSandy

iTrader: (1)

i just dug out this old thread

https://passionford.com/forum/ford-e...with-pics.html

in this, when i had a similar problem with the camber being able to be manipulated, lloyd also commented to tel me about the shock holes in the hub having movement, so can be pulled about and tightened up

i genuinely am confused how only 1, and lloyd, have noticed this hole dimension issue, or is it just that we both happened to have fucked rear hubs? lol

i kno this wont exactly solve my issue as even with correct camber my wheels wil wont fit, but still, need it sorted ideally

project rs

your problems are due to the ride high your after there is not enough space to do what you want with rear coilovers if you want it that low then you'll need to go back to old way seperate spring and strut

RSandy

iTrader: (1)

thanks mate, nice simple answer i needed really, without any opinions on changing my ride height etc. i figured it was just simply a space impossibility, but just wanted to check i wasnt missing something or there was a simple fix. i was pondering larger spacers and hunt down some stretched spec tyres, 185 35 17s, but hard to get hold of, and i think users on here would have a hissy fit at a low rs turbo on stretched tyres

jonny s2

iTrader: (12)

coilovers are thicker than normal shox and springs, and theres just not enough room for 17"s that drop and coilover kit tbh

1...keep the Gaz fit the kit and cut and knock the arches out
2...raise it LOL
3...change back to springs and shox
4...change the wheels to 16"s/or more stretched tyres

have to say it looks great tho Andy

RSandy

iTrader: (1)

cheers dude

in terms of arch work, whats done is all that can be really, as we fitted new arches, and we folded the lips flush, and panel beat them to a slight flare as it is. id scaff bar them to really flare them, but with having new arches fitted, it will either snap the welds clean off, or at least destroy all the filler work in the rear 1/4s lol

i think u kno my response to raising it haha

i think after this weekend im gonna swap back over to my konis and some modified lowering springs see how that looks

but yeh, i am still tempted to look into stretched rubber. im thinkin with a 185 35 17 tyre, and a 10mm hubcentric spacer, the wheel shud be pushed out far enough to easily clear the coilover, but with enough tyre stretch to clear the arch. maybe! lol its an expensive trial and error tho!

Versus_Creations

iTrader: (1)

Muz your motor is not as low as his as you have kept it at a sensible height to be able to use it like we would want to on road or track.

RSandy

iTrader: (1)

dude, not being funny, but why all the subtle digs? im not hurting anybody, im not building a dangerous shed of a car, im just wanting to run it low. i could raise my car on the coilovers to the ride height like muz's and it would work fine and dandy, but then i wouldnt like the look of my car as much, different strokes for different folks and all

also, without sounding like a dick, if i wanted a perfect handling road or track car, why the fuck would i use a mk4 escort as the base?!

have i really offended everybody that badly by wanting to run MY car low? lol

RSandy

iTrader: (1)

this is a pic of it rolled out at the weekend, for anybody that isnt mortally offended by a low car



the front needs to come down a tiny bit to level it out, but even then i wouldnt class it as horrendously low, certainly not compared to my mates running various low vw's, id still be confident to roll over a speedbump with this lol

russ rs

What colour is it make looks green tint

RSandy

iTrader: (1)

mallard green, was evening when the pic was took, if it was sunny it would be easier to tell

muz

I don't think Jano meant it as a dig, Andy. the highlighted bit below just means my advice is pretty useless as our cars are set up differently as mines a track car and Janos had a hand in building it as it's an Oddkidd car.

I'd be having ismilar problems if I dropped mine a further 20mm. I do think your going to have problems with the wide big wheels and the ridehight, though. The arch just isn't physically big enough

Russ Payne

This is how mine is currently sitting on gaz coilover with 16'' comps minus an engine lol, will be doing more adjustments once its completed.
Again the same as muz tho, mine is a track car and is getting built to get used like it.

Aslong as your not bothered by the handling and ride mate, which wont be very good, then its your motor, do what you like.

Hope you get around the problem pal

RSandy

iTrader: (1)

i wont lie, at 1st i was building it up with all the bits with the intention of maybe a few track days and stuff, thus the cage and the seats etc.

but financially, i know if i blow it up or stuff it, i wont be able to afford to put it right repeatedly. we spent so long doin the bodywork, i think if i was to damage it, i would just completely lose heart and want rid.

thats why my aim has slightly shifted towards just making a car that looks how i want it to, nice and low like the euro boys, and just has a nice reliable engine i can use to potter about to shows n stuff

lets face it, im not doing something that cant be reversed back to normal, i cud just as easily wind the coilovers up to a sensible, height and then suddenly iv got a car i could rag around a track with a brake upgrade.

Russ Payne

Of course mate, I understand that

I was the other way round lol, I was going to do mine to a high standard, but then it needed so much welding I knew it was never going to be perfect in my eyes and I didnt want to have the shell completly restored to a standard that I was then afraid to drive it!!
If you check my resto thread, the underside was still done to a good standard but the car is getting built so im not afraid to use it, so I just decided to make it a track car

Rob_DOHC

iTrader: (4)

Don't take this the wrong way as i think it looks pretty cool, but i think you will raise the height after you've been on the road a bit, you kind of get fucked off with speed bumps, pot holes and minor hills after a while (and a few down pipes) and mine was a good bit higher than yours.

Rob,

mattseries2

iTrader: (1)

Looks the tits though!!!

Rob_DOHC

iTrader: (4)

What about using S1 arches bonded on and cutting the metal arch back a bit further? might give you a but more room for some spacers etc?

muz

It would probably give you about 3mm of extra room. The arches sit quite tight to the origional arch from about 1/2 of the way up so all you would gain is the thickness of the origional metal right at the lip and about 10mm up the arch plus about 1mm of void that would be between the two.

fastash1

I had this issue with mine and gave up in the end, went back to konis.
I understand that some people do not like the cars too low but gaz do state that they are upto 100mm, There is no mention in any advert that you may struggle to fit and would require spacers, it's only after you part with your cash you find this out! In my opinion although they are height adjustable they are useless and you may aswell buy shocks and springs..

Sorry for the rant but they really got to me last month and I hate to see people having the same issue..

On a lighter note I have a set of gaz rear coil overs for sale with 180 9" and 250 7" springs..

Ash

Neil@FastFord

It's not that low. No arch gap granted, but that's cause your on big wheels. You wont loose a bumper when parking or on a speedhump.

Stop muckin' about, whack it on 15's, and then lower it properly. Smash that sump in...like i did on my Focus!

muz

That's because it depends on wheel choice and rear brake choice. Just because the unit has 100mm of adjustability it doesn't mean you actaully can lower it by this amount, its just the specific of the product. A coilover is adjustable for race purposes IMO to get the correct stance and balance for cornering etc rather than cosmetic. Like Samco Boost hoses being rated to 500PSI burst pressure, you'd never run 500PSI of boost.
They can't factor in every possible combination and say what works and what doesnt. If you have standard ERST wheels and standard rear drums you could put it on its arse no problems.

The problem here is not the coilover itself (although due to the rear end design of an ERST it could be argued that all coilovers for this model are badly designed) it's a combination of large, wide rear wheel, a low stance, a rear disc conversion, spacers so it all bolts together and a lack of physical arch space combined which is not GAZ's fault.

I think the only solution would be to go back to a Koni set up so you can remove the spacer which pulls it away from the coilover to make the extra space and that's the answer.

fastash1

Muz I do agree totally with what your saying I just wish that when spending £500 quid minimum they would state that if you have after market wheels brakes etc they may not be a direct fit, ??
I for one would definitely have bought konis if I was told that rather than spending many nights trying to fit them and ended up back with koni !!

Just an idea for Gaz as they know about the issue and still don't tell you that you need spacers until you contact them with an issue..

Ash

Versus_Creations

iTrader: (1)

Just see this pal i didnt mean it as a dig at you. Of course its your motor and you do what you like with it.

Having owned many cars of all sorts i gave you my honest opinion due to ride heights and handling. Anyone on here who has had a really low car will tell you that its not worth doing.



Because the Mk4 Escort is perfect for this use.
The Mk3 shell was designed with race and handling in mind. Hence all the great adjustable bits that are on RS16i and S1 ERST's. I dont think there is a better handling RS from the factory.. Untill we bring 25year younger cars into the conversation like the FRS. Or silly overpriced cars like gt40 or rs200

Using:-
S1/16i rollbar
Adjustable TCA's
Coilovers
Top mounts
6link rear end

You have a super handling car that is very hard to match with any other model of RS. Even if you had a cosworth they dont come with the adjustable bits the S1/16i came with. Spend alot more on the cosworth than you would need to compared to a mk3/4 and it might handle similar although will still be a lot more in weight and still not handle as well.


So i hope you didnt take it the wrong way.
Regards
Jano

rs combi

same wheels and tyre size and i have no issues with them the only reason mine isnt lower in the pic is that i couldnt get the tracking guages on with it any lower

i do have the 6 link kit on the rear but its set up same mesure ments as standard

JohnnyBgood

I wouldnt say it sat any lower than mine mate, but i run 195/40/17.
Or you could even run a 205 with a tappered sidewall like a toyo t1r.....