fao everyone thats have gaz coilovers @ the rear
07-10-2009, 04:46 AM
#1
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fao everyone thats have gaz coilovers @ the rear
show me how you done it, and a little explanation would be nice
mine are loose at the top, lol!
and have you used the rubber bush to
got 1 tip with a 5mm spacer with a 12mm hole at the top
mine are loose at the top, lol!
and have you used the rubber bush to
got 1 tip with a 5mm spacer with a 12mm hole at the top
09-10-2009, 10:56 PM
#5
i stand corrected i just thought they would be ok as the front ones on ka's pumas and a few others move about a fair bit when jacked up had to look into this with ford and vosa as i am an mot tester and would normally fail a car on its test for this but were told by both ford and vosa that this is acceptable, wheter or not its ideal is another story tho lol!
10-10-2009, 04:32 PM
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anodised.... so you have rubber between the turret and coilover ?
or did you get some new rubber from GAZ with your rear coilover ?
Alex_86.... have you solved the problem ?
Henrik
or did you get some new rubber from GAZ with your rear coilover ?
Alex_86.... have you solved the problem ?
Henrik
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10-10-2009, 11:05 PM
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the rear coilover came with a top hat lookin mount at the top which fits at the top with nothing else needed mine never had a rubber mount on the rear only a funny shaped washer which i did not use
here is how mine came see the top hat looking thing on the first one on the right
here is how mine came see the top hat looking thing on the first one on the right
Last edited by anodised; 11-10-2009 at 07:30 AM.
12-10-2009, 09:13 PM
#9
Wye Valley Hardcore
Any more info on this? As mine have to come off anyway to change the rear hubs and brakes around. I've heard of people modifying the top hats so they fit better?
13-10-2009, 06:39 AM
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I got a reply from GAZ saying the rear coilover should be fitted with the original rubber bushes... as i have now, but there is still some movement 
Asked them for some advise on how to solve this problem, waiting for reply.
Asked them for some advise on how to solve this problem, waiting for reply.
13-10-2009, 08:12 AM
#11
Wye Valley Hardcore
Well I have Leda coilovers but Gaz springs and top hats. With the rears they sent me the top hat but the hole in the top was too big so the insert came through the top.
I measured it and it was a 15mm hole not a 12mm as I was using 1.25 insert rears.
I emailed them about this and the first email back was abit unhelpful, saying you need to retain the origional top mount inside the car from the Escort and the rubber bush. I said I have, I'm saying the top hat you send me on the inside, origonal bush and the origional Escort top peice in the car. the top hat you sent me is the wrong size. The hole in the top is too big and the insert just goes straight through. I told you when I ordered I'm using 1.25mm rear coilovers. NOT 1.5mm and they didn't email back. So mine were kinda bodged in for Ford Fair but now I need to do it properly.
I measured it and it was a 15mm hole not a 12mm as I was using 1.25 insert rears.
I emailed them about this and the first email back was abit unhelpful, saying you need to retain the origional top mount inside the car from the Escort and the rubber bush. I said I have, I'm saying the top hat you send me on the inside, origonal bush and the origional Escort top peice in the car. the top hat you sent me is the wrong size. The hole in the top is too big and the insert just goes straight through. I told you when I ordered I'm using 1.25mm rear coilovers. NOT 1.5mm and they didn't email back. So mine were kinda bodged in for Ford Fair but now I need to do it properly.
13-10-2009, 12:14 PM
#12
i just used the ford topmounts on mine front and rear fit fine and no movement only pic i have not realy helpfull excuse the welding my mate decided to help seam weld the turrets 
13-10-2009, 12:51 PM
#13
From memory, I'm sure I left the original rubber in place (it stays in and doesn't fall out), then there are 2 metal cups, one goes above the rubber (inside the car) and the other beneath it, just like the standard set-up. Then Gaz's alloy top hat goes under that.
13-10-2009, 12:56 PM
#14
Wye Valley Hardcore
That's what I've done with mine Christian. Just I thought that the whole insert shaft shouldn't come through the hole in the top of the top hat? Just the threaded part should?
13-10-2009, 01:33 PM
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well. no not exactly sorted out yet.
used the original rubber and the metal cups as christian pointed out but it is a bit play anyway though, going to order a new set of the rubber bushes.
just using the alu that is on the rear coilovers dont work as it will miss about 1-2cm where it is a stop at the damper for it, and where the metal cup stops
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v623/alex_86/7.jpg
will sort out better pics later
used the original rubber and the metal cups as christian pointed out but it is a bit play anyway though, going to order a new set of the rubber bushes.
just using the alu that is on the rear coilovers dont work as it will miss about 1-2cm where it is a stop at the damper for it, and where the metal cup stops
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v623/alex_86/7.jpg
will sort out better pics later
13-10-2009, 11:08 PM
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You guys need to seam weld the rear turrets when fitting coilovers! So why not just fit proper strut tops at the same time?
Seems silly to fit expensive coilovers and then having them flop about in shitty rubber mounts!
Seems silly to fit expensive coilovers and then having them flop about in shitty rubber mounts!
13-10-2009, 11:34 PM
#20
Having stage tarmac rallied Escorts since 1992 over all sorts of terrain I have never yet seam welded or needed to modify the top of a rear turret on any of my cars.
The top mount will move NO MORE than it would sat inside a spherical bearing.
The beauty of having the rear rubber top doughnut is that it absorbs some of the shocks thrown up into the chassis !!
If you do go solid mount top mounts with spherical bearings there is no give at all and all the shock loadings are transfered into the shell around the turrets, which over the years I have seen cause more problems if not done correctly !! (in competition)
Problems will arise however if people fit coilovers then still expect to carry 4 up in the car over speed bumps etc. Coil overs are not designed to carry weight at the top !!
The top mount will move NO MORE than it would sat inside a spherical bearing.
The beauty of having the rear rubber top doughnut is that it absorbs some of the shocks thrown up into the chassis !!
If you do go solid mount top mounts with spherical bearings there is no give at all and all the shock loadings are transfered into the shell around the turrets, which over the years I have seen cause more problems if not done correctly !! (in competition)
Problems will arise however if people fit coilovers then still expect to carry 4 up in the car over speed bumps etc. Coil overs are not designed to carry weight at the top !!
Last edited by NUTS RuS; 13-10-2009 at 11:38 PM.
14-10-2009, 12:00 AM
#21
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Well I find that odd as unless I have you mistaken for somebody else you are using pics of my car with the top mounts I spoke about on your website?
Given what you say about road spec use I couldnt agree more! but Koni suspension will give all that is required of a road car and some.
If somebody is going to the extent of coilovers its should only be in a track form surely?
Given what you say about road spec use I couldnt agree more! but Koni suspension will give all that is required of a road car and some.
If somebody is going to the extent of coilovers its should only be in a track form surely?
14-10-2009, 03:24 AM
#22
Sorry I dont have a website showing any top mounts (well not the one your thinking of) the only ones I possibly would have a picture of are the fronts which are a shaped fit to fit up into the original mount and do spread the load around the designed Ford part.
My experience with Koni's was unfortunatly bad in competition
Back in the early days (1992 - 1995) I persevered with modified Koni's on the rear, modified in the way that we converted them into coilovers and played about with steel, alloy, short, long and extra long top mounts on them. (remember coilovers were not invented for Escorts back then)
To me back then they (koni's) were classed as consumables as they would at a push last me 2 events (roughly 100 miles) before they either bent like a banana or creased at the strut fixing points (the actual tube casings bent or crushed not the fixing ears or the actual cars turrets).
We tried over a period of 2 years various top mount designs to take away some of these loadings causing the bending and creasing.
Motorcraft original tubes would last longer than Koni's on the rear but unfortunatly did not have as good damping that was needed in motorsport.
Other makes around at the time (spax) were worse than the Koni's.
The basic outcome from a few years testing and development was that custom thick wall Bilsteins, extended alloy top mounts and rubber bushes gave me the best solution for the time being.
I then wanted to play around with the rear settings to take it one step further and knowing the best way to adjust geometery on the Escort is at the bottom of the wheel and not up top we (MEFMotorsport) made and developed the link arms.
As all the work was being done at the bottom near the wheel with rose joints and bearings the top mount remained unphased and has continued to this day to remain untroubled.
Its a kind of keep it simple attitude in the design that worked out best (for me) as to us in motorsport shells can be classed as disposable, and if one has undergone a lot of mods to get it to where you need it then when time comes to change it it makes the whole job twice as hard.
My turrets have never been welded around the top load points and I have never had any trouble from them. On this current car I did seam weld the rear mounting points on the inner wing but that was only because the rest of the car was being done.
If anyone wants to go to the trouble and expense of fitting flat top mounts on the rear and take pictures then that is fine, as it shows the extents of what can be achieved further than what I took it in 17 years of motorsport use. Im also sure the people making top mounts are happy to use those pictures too, but when to me the constraints were in the actual suspension units themselves failing then time and development was better spent and needed elsewhere.
Decent coilovers should be for track use yes, but there is also a range that is suited (wrong word - priced) for road use. That road use set does get extended by some to include track use and the top mount as it is supplied will be more than capable of doing the job on track as I actually know where the design of it stemmed from. But as said they are not designed to carry any weight which is why a cautionary note of the shell needing mods will be given to the road market as a get out.
I have never been known to be sympathetic on my car it often has hard crash landings far far in excess of what I would would be able to put it through on any normal road or circuit and its never faulted yet so what is classed as track form ?
My experience with Koni's was unfortunatly bad in competition
Back in the early days (1992 - 1995) I persevered with modified Koni's on the rear, modified in the way that we converted them into coilovers and played about with steel, alloy, short, long and extra long top mounts on them. (remember coilovers were not invented for Escorts back then)
To me back then they (koni's) were classed as consumables as they would at a push last me 2 events (roughly 100 miles) before they either bent like a banana or creased at the strut fixing points (the actual tube casings bent or crushed not the fixing ears or the actual cars turrets).
We tried over a period of 2 years various top mount designs to take away some of these loadings causing the bending and creasing.
Motorcraft original tubes would last longer than Koni's on the rear but unfortunatly did not have as good damping that was needed in motorsport.
Other makes around at the time (spax) were worse than the Koni's.
The basic outcome from a few years testing and development was that custom thick wall Bilsteins, extended alloy top mounts and rubber bushes gave me the best solution for the time being.
I then wanted to play around with the rear settings to take it one step further and knowing the best way to adjust geometery on the Escort is at the bottom of the wheel and not up top we (MEFMotorsport) made and developed the link arms.
As all the work was being done at the bottom near the wheel with rose joints and bearings the top mount remained unphased and has continued to this day to remain untroubled.
Its a kind of keep it simple attitude in the design that worked out best (for me) as to us in motorsport shells can be classed as disposable, and if one has undergone a lot of mods to get it to where you need it then when time comes to change it it makes the whole job twice as hard.
My turrets have never been welded around the top load points and I have never had any trouble from them. On this current car I did seam weld the rear mounting points on the inner wing but that was only because the rest of the car was being done.
If anyone wants to go to the trouble and expense of fitting flat top mounts on the rear and take pictures then that is fine, as it shows the extents of what can be achieved further than what I took it in 17 years of motorsport use. Im also sure the people making top mounts are happy to use those pictures too, but when to me the constraints were in the actual suspension units themselves failing then time and development was better spent and needed elsewhere.
Decent coilovers should be for track use yes, but there is also a range that is suited (wrong word - priced) for road use. That road use set does get extended by some to include track use and the top mount as it is supplied will be more than capable of doing the job on track as I actually know where the design of it stemmed from. But as said they are not designed to carry any weight which is why a cautionary note of the shell needing mods will be given to the road market as a get out.
I have never been known to be sympathetic on my car it often has hard crash landings far far in excess of what I would would be able to put it through on any normal road or circuit and its never faulted yet so what is classed as track form ?
Last edited by NUTS RuS; 14-10-2009 at 03:26 AM.
14-10-2009, 09:52 AM
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Right then.... GAZ is saying the same thing with the 2 metal cups, anyone got a picture of the rear suspension with the 2 metal cups and rubber ??
Not sure if the cup beneath the rubber i fitted to rear setup, but it sounds like its the part missing
Not sure if the cup beneath the rubber i fitted to rear setup, but it sounds like its the part missing
14-10-2009, 11:45 AM
#24
Advanced PassionFord User
The alloy top hat that sits between the spring and the inside of the rear turret should be 55mm from the very top of it, to where the spring first touches it.And as said,use the Ford rubber and 2 metal caps.The set up should be tight then.Regards,Micky
14-10-2009, 12:09 PM
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06-03-2017, 07:51 PM
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Sorry I dont have a website showing any top mounts (well not the one your thinking of) the only ones I possibly would have a picture of are the fronts which are a shaped fit to fit up into the original mount and do spread the load around the designed Ford part.
My experience with Koni's was unfortunatly bad in competition
Back in the early days (1992 - 1995) I persevered with modified Koni's on the rear, modified in the way that we converted them into coilovers and played about with steel, alloy, short, long and extra long top mounts on them. (remember coilovers were not invented for Escorts back then)
To me back then they (koni's) were classed as consumables as they would at a push last me 2 events (roughly 100 miles) before they either bent like a banana or creased at the strut fixing points (the actual tube casings bent or crushed not the fixing ears or the actual cars turrets).
We tried over a period of 2 years various top mount designs to take away some of these loadings causing the bending and creasing.
Motorcraft original tubes would last longer than Koni's on the rear but unfortunatly did not have as good damping that was needed in motorsport.
Other makes around at the time (spax) were worse than the Koni's.
The basic outcome from a few years testing and development was that custom thick wall Bilsteins, extended alloy top mounts and rubber bushes gave me the best solution for the time being.
I then wanted to play around with the rear settings to take it one step further and knowing the best way to adjust geometery on the Escort is at the bottom of the wheel and not up top we (MEFMotorsport) made and developed the link arms.
As all the work was being done at the bottom near the wheel with rose joints and bearings the top mount remained unphased and has continued to this day to remain untroubled.
Its a kind of keep it simple attitude in the design that worked out best (for me) as to us in motorsport shells can be classed as disposable, and if one has undergone a lot of mods to get it to where you need it then when time comes to change it it makes the whole job twice as hard.
My turrets have never been welded around the top load points and I have never had any trouble from them. On this current car I did seam weld the rear mounting points on the inner wing but that was only because the rest of the car was being done.
If anyone wants to go to the trouble and expense of fitting flat top mounts on the rear and take pictures then that is fine, as it shows the extents of what can be achieved further than what I took it in 17 years of motorsport use. Im also sure the people making top mounts are happy to use those pictures too, but when to me the constraints were in the actual suspension units themselves failing then time and development was better spent and needed elsewhere.
Decent coilovers should be for track use yes, but there is also a range that is suited (wrong word - priced) for road use. That road use set does get extended by some to include track use and the top mount as it is supplied will be more than capable of doing the job on track as I actually know where the design of it stemmed from. But as said they are not designed to carry any weight which is why a cautionary note of the shell needing mods will be given to the road market as a get out.
I have never been known to be sympathetic on my car it often has hard crash landings far far in excess of what I would would be able to put it through on any normal road or circuit and its never faulted yet so what is classed as track form ?
My experience with Koni's was unfortunatly bad in competition
Back in the early days (1992 - 1995) I persevered with modified Koni's on the rear, modified in the way that we converted them into coilovers and played about with steel, alloy, short, long and extra long top mounts on them. (remember coilovers were not invented for Escorts back then)
To me back then they (koni's) were classed as consumables as they would at a push last me 2 events (roughly 100 miles) before they either bent like a banana or creased at the strut fixing points (the actual tube casings bent or crushed not the fixing ears or the actual cars turrets).
We tried over a period of 2 years various top mount designs to take away some of these loadings causing the bending and creasing.
Motorcraft original tubes would last longer than Koni's on the rear but unfortunatly did not have as good damping that was needed in motorsport.
Other makes around at the time (spax) were worse than the Koni's.
The basic outcome from a few years testing and development was that custom thick wall Bilsteins, extended alloy top mounts and rubber bushes gave me the best solution for the time being.
I then wanted to play around with the rear settings to take it one step further and knowing the best way to adjust geometery on the Escort is at the bottom of the wheel and not up top we (MEFMotorsport) made and developed the link arms.
As all the work was being done at the bottom near the wheel with rose joints and bearings the top mount remained unphased and has continued to this day to remain untroubled.
Its a kind of keep it simple attitude in the design that worked out best (for me) as to us in motorsport shells can be classed as disposable, and if one has undergone a lot of mods to get it to where you need it then when time comes to change it it makes the whole job twice as hard.
My turrets have never been welded around the top load points and I have never had any trouble from them. On this current car I did seam weld the rear mounting points on the inner wing but that was only because the rest of the car was being done.
If anyone wants to go to the trouble and expense of fitting flat top mounts on the rear and take pictures then that is fine, as it shows the extents of what can be achieved further than what I took it in 17 years of motorsport use. Im also sure the people making top mounts are happy to use those pictures too, but when to me the constraints were in the actual suspension units themselves failing then time and development was better spent and needed elsewhere.
Decent coilovers should be for track use yes, but there is also a range that is suited (wrong word - priced) for road use. That road use set does get extended by some to include track use and the top mount as it is supplied will be more than capable of doing the job on track as I actually know where the design of it stemmed from. But as said they are not designed to carry any weight which is why a cautionary note of the shell needing mods will be given to the road market as a get out.
I have never been known to be sympathetic on my car it often has hard crash landings far far in excess of what I would would be able to put it through on any normal road or circuit and its never faulted yet so what is classed as track form ?
Just fitted coilovers to my S2, I have Rs7 spoke wheels, I have set it to the height I want and I only have 1 inch at most off negative travel ( droop) is this OK or dangerous?
I can not lower it much more as I'm running 12mm spacers to avoid wheel catching coilovers, so wheel will catch my arch. I know the wheels are Probly to big for car but is 20mm to 25mm droop enough to stop back in lifting off the tar. Car is used on road mainly
Many thanks
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