jayRS

damn, you naffed all that £40 does seem a bloody good deal now

i would be interested in seeing a old plastic one if you have one mate, with a pattern its easier to make a new one

SWITCHBLADE

iTrader: (5)

yeah tell me about it, i was having a proper tustle at the time too when it went, quadrant failed, clutch somehow went and a piece of the cover got caught up and ground its way into the bell housing, theres a blanking bit inside the housing and it ground its way into that which resulted in it draining the gearbox oil, amazing how quickly it all happened, from when the quadrant failed, to when i came to a stop, by the time id hopped out the car and got on my knees there was a puddle of transmission fluid !!!!!!.

ill see if ive got my brand new plastic one i bought and never modded if ya want mate, ill then carefully mod it and send it to ya, alternatively i can draw you a plan of my ally one, ill use it as a template, draw round it and take all the vital measurements via my vernier caliper.

cheers bud

dave

jayRS

no point cutting up a new one mate, but if you got a old one that will do

SWITCHBLADE

iTrader: (5)

im not going to be using it now ive got my alloy one anyway, any old one would be in bits anywayif i still had it lol

jayRS

dont matter if its broken mate, if the bits are there i can work it out, unless of course its proper shagged and bent up and stuff

Micky

Switchblade,Im interested 110%,put me on the list Keep up the good work,as those of us who know what youre on about and understand the problems are glad of youre help in getting this matter fixed.

@ JayRS,it doesnt need any teeth cut into it as it for the Mark 5 pedal conversion!!Me thinks you dont know the difference between a Mark 4 set up and a Mark 5 set up!!

@ Safe Chav,I use a STANDARD Mark 4 quadrant and a Mark 5 pedal with no problems what so ever on my Ap 2008 clutch kit.I have posted this info before on here.

Regards to all,Micky

jayRS

me thinks you better read all the replys before ansd know what ya on about before replying with stupid ass comments like that

if you look at the title again your see it doesnt state specific clutch quadrant, as seeing as the first link to this i clicked was in the fiesta room, to which there clutch quadrants have teeth your see why i started my comment as i did.
just so you know, some came with auto adjust witch had teeth some came with manual witch didnt have teeth, it depends on the year

guess its the fact some people dont look at the facts before shouting there gob off eh

SafeChav

Correct

yes mate i know you have, but not everyone reports the same sucess. Now i would probably agree with you and say the standard size quadrant provides enough lift but unfortunately we can't be there to sort everyones cars out, so this won't accomodate for the people who can only get a working setup with the 58mm quadrant.

And just for reference aswell the guide on the AP site lists the wrong size quadrants, part numbers are correct but the description etc lets it down.

SWITCHBLADE

iTrader: (5)

safechav, so are you saying my ally quadrant is the standard mark4 quadrant ?????, am i right in thinking the standard mark4 quadrant has a 40mm radius which is why people use the later quadrant because of the increased radius (58mm) to give them the extra lift needed to operate the clutch properly ?????. also on the ap site it says the updated quadrant is 55mm, are you saying this is what theyre quoting as wrong ?????.

dave.

SafeChav

yours is the same shape as a standard mk3/4 item, the mk5/6 ones are actually half a circle not a quarter for a start.

There are various different sizes for each type of quadrant, but an RST has a 55mm quadrant, the white quadrant from a mk5/6 is 58mm.

SWITCHBLADE

iTrader: (5)

right ok here we go then, ill try to clear things up a bit

all original pics that i use here are from the ap website, whether they are right or not isnt what i want to get into, its the basis of the mod im trying to get across.

in the first picture ( pre 1995 quadrant ) im pointing out the radius of the groove for the clutch cable ( quoted as 40mm by ap) which is alot lower than the outside radius of the quadrant which i gather safechav is quoting as being 55mm ( which prob is the radius but the outside one not the groove for the cable ).






in the second picture ( standard unmodified, post 1995 quadrant ) im showing the radius of the groove for the clutch cable (ap quote as 55mm) which as youll see is only slightly smaller than the actual outside radius of the quadrant, just enough for the cable to sit in infact.





in the third picture ( modified post 1995 quadrant as per ap website ) im showing the section ap recommend to cut off which leaves a very similar shape to the original pre 1995 quadrant but increasing the cable groove radius thus improving clutch operation, im also pointing out for those who maybe dont know the diff between a half moon and a quarter moon shape.





ok to sum this up hopefully once and for all, the original rs turbo quadrant hasnt got a big enough cable groove radius to operate the clutch properly, ap quote this at 40mm standard ( maybe this is where the debate has come from as i think they might be quoting the radius of the groove, not the outside radius of the quadrant, please refer to picture of pre 1995 quadrant and youll see what i mean by the diff of the two radius ), to rectify this ap recommend using the post 1995 quadrant as it has, and i quote, a 55mm radius ( which again is maybe the radius of the groove not the outside radius of the quadrant which is slightly more ). i gather they recommend cutting it so its then the same shape as the pre 1995 quadrant so what you end up is a quadrant that gives an approx 15mm bigger radius over the standard item thus giving the extra motion the clutch needs to work properly.

like i said though im not getting into whether measurements are exactly correct or not on the ap website, but i think they are quoting the groove radius and not the outside radius of the quadrant which is what measurement would be used when plastic quadrants are advertised for sale. basically theres no arguing the mod, when first done like the ap website says, works.

the point is the quadrant failure once the mods have been made, thats really the basis of all of this, finding a solution to the quadrant snapping on so many people, not whether the website may or may not be accurate with their measurements or whether some people need it or not. we all know that some people have success without the mod, some people have success using either just the updated pedal or the updated modified quadrant, some people however need both for it to work.

im pretty sure if everyone used both the quadrant and the pedal conversion the only problem theyde then have was it snapping which is where ive gone above and beyond to try to help.

oh and just to further clarify things, your wrong mate, i just didnt say anything sooner as i wanted to find out what you was chatting bout first. my quadrant is an ally copy of a modified, post 1995, quadrant ie one which isnt a fooking half moon shape but neither is it a quarter moon either which is the whole point of the mod, also compare it to the picture, mine has the increased radius to allow the clutch to work correctly, also seeing as it came off a working car and was used with a mark5 pedal conversion and with an ap clutch ( which is exactly what its for ) and worked perfect, funny that !!!!.

to everyone thats genuinely interested and that has this prob or people who have been through one snapping or even people who have a ap clutch fitted who want a sure safe way of it not happening to them, i thank you

dave.[/b]

Chris69

are people actually buying this that put there names on the list??
i have one i've had made myslef and i'd never lok back, also £40 is very cheap for it and will save you so much time changing them it unreal

As far as the da
ebate of the raduis goes, if its two short u simply screw in the adjuster to put the cable under stress and find an ideal biting point- i'm sorry i fail to see the issue with the one he has made and am very suprised peeps aren't biting you hands off

SWITCHBLADE

iTrader: (5)

cheers chunt69 but a simple answer is NO.

ive only had a couple of people that seem to want one. it doesnt help when certain people put doubt into other peoples minds that its not the correct item or feel they have to continue a stupid debate on what they thinks right or wrong when the proof is there in a working quadrant which id personally rather have than someones theory on things.

i didnt start the debate of the radius, i just felt i had to point out bloody everything because of people not actually understanding the topic. ive been working hard visiting engineering companies over the last 5-6wks trying to get some made to help people, in this time my pride and joy has been sat in the garage coz i had to use the ally one i bought for quotes.

when i finally find what i think isnt a bad price for one, i post up an update which includes pics of mine so people get an idea of what its going to look like and i get knob cheeses suggesting its not the correct quadrant, even though it was made and then used with a mark 5 pedal and an ap clutch, im beginning to wish i either didnt bother now or i put an increased price up just so i could make money for the hassle im having to go through now lol.

is mine similar to the one your using ie in shape and size etc ????.

cheers bud

dave.

Chris69

it looks like the same radius but mine is a bit of a fuller circle if you get my meaning lol
its closer to a half moon than yours is.
i find it makes my pedal sit slightly high but the biting point is nice , i'm guessing as urs is the pedal must sit pretty much in line with the brake and accelerator??
compared to the three plastic ones i've tryed...... and broke the feel is very positive and now i'm not worried about breaking anything

SWITCHBLADE

iTrader: (5)

yes mate i can see that by it being more fuller itll make the pedal sit higher up than the other pedals but then itll also give it a diff feel with regards to the biting point etc yeah ????,

i could see probs however if someone made a aaaaaheem QUARTER CIRCLE QUADRANT as that might mean not having enough movement for correct clutch operation, also the opposite prob if it was cough cough HALF CIRCLE QUADRANT cos this would prob mean a very high pedal with hardly any adjustability ????.

thanks again, put the word out if ya like if ya know anyone whos interested, i dont know whether itll be a good idea to pm people who were previously interested in one or not, wouldnt want to potentionally upset any followers of said knob cheeser !!!!!.

cheers

dave.

Hrsturbo

Still interested! whens the order?

Chris69

yeah biting point is relatively high
Mine was originally half circle and it actually pulled the clutch cable too far and with the pedal all the way down the down the clutch would not engage.
for that reason i had maybe 15/20 degrees of the half circle taken off
this still leaves me with limited adjustability but tbh its fine and i can forget about it whcih was my aim
a quarter circle would not work even with the adjuster fully wound in- it wouldn't provide enough lift to disengage the clutch imho and if it did the biting point would be on the floor

SWITCHBLADE

iTrader: (5)

i cant give the engineer the go ahead until i have enough people to make me confident enough to order 20, as it stands i cant even get a definate 5 interested let alone close to 20 lol. once i get a decent genuine list of people up, and payment ie atleast a deposit, ill then give him the ok.

im wondering if it might be a good idea for people who are members of other forums to point people in the right direction via a link to this thread ?????. the quicker i get the interest the quicker i can have them made, the hard work is done ie finding an engineer and getting a fairly decent price, the bit that should of been the easiest is actually now working out to be a biatch lol.

cheers peeps

dave.

jayRS

just so i know how much of the slating is aimed at me?

SWITCHBLADE

iTrader: (5)

lol not one bit mate, you only asked questions and made valid comments and youve been supportive especially as your an engineer yaself,

fancy buying one ????. lol

dave.

jayRS

thought, hang on, have i upset someone here

na i dont wanna buy one mate, wont be much help to me, but, it might be worth a post on fiestaturbo.com as i know a few people that run the ap cluch, heeman him self had to mod a quadrant in his fiesta as he had the same problem with poor pedle etc.

if your not a member on there i could bung a post up on there linking it here?

SWITCHBLADE

iTrader: (5)

lol nah mate you havent upset anyone, not me anyway.

ok mate ya can do, but if you wouldnt mind waiting for a bit and seeing how things go here first as this was originally for members on here so ill give them a bit more time to put there names down first before giving others a chance, if theres not many takers then feel free to put the word out as ultimately the more people the better as itll speed things up, if a miracle happens and i get more than 20+ interested it may even bring the price down a tad too if i get a larger amount made, ya never know.

thanks again

dave

jayRS

no problem mate

Micky

@ jayrs.....you've upset me mate!!!!!This post is all about the fitting of a Mark 5 pedal and MODIFIED Mark 5 Quadrant to a Escort RS Turbo.This set up requires no teeth on the quadrant what so ever.For you to ask why there's no teeth on the after market alloy version proves you dont understand the circumstances in which this topic is referring too.We have been talking about this mod on the RS Turbo section of this board for the last 6 MONTHS OR MORE!!!!I've been giving my findings on this AP clutch 2008 problem for all these months,findings from actual 1st hand use of this clutch in my trackcar,not from hearsay cr*p pub stool talk after 10 pints of Stella!!!I'm only here to help other users get around this problem,but Im f*cked if Im going to sit back and listen to comments from you or anyone else saying Im making "stupid ass comments"!!!That is very upsetting as I've been testing this set up in the most harshest of ways,ie ...on track!!!Best regards ,Micky

ps Switchblade,Im still interested in an alloy one!!

And yes,work was a bit stressfull today,Im usually more easy going!!

jayRS

ive upset you have i,. ah well, i havent set out to up set anyone

first off as i said go back and look at my firs 2 post then think about what i said above,

it was posted in the fiesta room, fiesta ones have teeth yeah..........
my first post was:

bloody hell, £40 for that, as a engineer i know how easy that is to make, i was expecting one with teeth for that price.

i thought it was still in the fiesta room.....

second post

but i was a bit shocked to find they wasnt toothed

again, didnt clock it had gone into escort room, but i was saying for that price, i was shocked it didnt have teeth, as in, i would of thought it would of been cheaper as it didnt have teeth on it.........

so for you to say i asked why there wasnt any teeth on the alloy one isnt right, it didnt ask why there wasnt any did i.... read the posts like i said, it seems you have got your wired crossed somewhere and taken it the wrong way.

i am aware of a mod needed to the rachet as others have done it, but not having a escort my self or a ap cluch i dont need the conversion done, but dont think just cos i dont have a escort i have never worked on them or even understand whats going on, ive worked on fords for best part of 11 years so i dunno where you think pub talk comes into it?

anyway, im not gunna get into a argument about it, wired were crossed, on both parts i would say and thats that, as far as i see it its nuff said, i understand where your coming from, and hopfully now your see where im coming from

SafeChav

I really haven't got the time to read the essays you've all posted since

But SWITCHBLADE, your first post, where you've explained about the quadrant sizes. Your first diagram looks similar to a Mk5 quadrant, not a MK4 quadrant, however according to microcat there isn't even a 40mm quadrant available for a Mk5/6, i have a feeling that may be from a fiesta or something else! The external diameter will always be the same as they all use the teeth for the auto adjuster on the pre 95 cars.

On a mk3/4:

Red Quadrant = 40mm
Yellow Quadrant = 45mm
White Quadrant = 50mm
Black Quadrant = 55mm

On a mk5/6:

Black Quadrant - 55mm
White Quadrant - 58mm

Obviously on the Mk3/4 the engines go right down to a 1.1 so they will have very small and low lift clutches, which require less cable pull hence the smaller quadrant and therefore a lighter pedal.

SafeChav

The theory behind it being that the AP clutches supposedly need more lift to fully disengage, think of two circles, one bigger than the other, if you wrapped a piece of string around the circumference the bigger circle would need a longer piece of string around its entire circumference.

You may well be able to adjust the bolt as suggested but many people come back saying they are unable to achieve a good pedal height whilst maintaining full functionality.

A bigger quadrant = more cable pull per set distance the pedal travels.

SWITCHBLADE

iTrader: (5)

lol like ive said before, i dont care whether the ap website quotes wrong sizes or not, thats why i added pics previously to try to explain why they may have it slightly wrong ie if you look at the first picture which shows what they say is the pre 1995 quadrant you can clearly see that the groove on which the clutch cable sits is well different to the outside radius. what i was trying to say is that maybe ap racing are quoting that when they says its 40mm not the outside radius of say 55mm...........then the modded one at 55mm ( groove radius ) and not the outside measurement of 58mm, i think theyre really just trying to show that using the later quadrant gives and extra 15mm approx groove radius to properly engage the clutch.

i do however agree that if theyre either using the wrong pictures or quoting sizes of quadrants that confuse people then they should rectify it to make it 100% accurate for people who have no idea what theyre looking at, but as long as they quote the correct part numbers then it shouldnt matter.

to tell you the truth though, the one thing that pissed me off the most is as soon as i post pics of my alloy quadrant up, instead of you asking the question you took it upon yourself to just say that it looks like a mark 4 quadrant which will not be any use to the ap boys, without even explaining what made you think it, especially for people who would like an alloy one but dont really have a clue on the visual differances.

this could have a geniune affect on people putting their names down as there are people out there who believe people on here without asking any further questions, which then in turn could mean nobody ends up getting one as the key to getting these made is numbers. thats one reason i felt i had to ask you what you meant, if you clearly look at my picture of a modded white mk5/6 quadrant and the key word here is MODDED then compare it to the shape of my ally one can you not agree its the same basic shape, which leads me to your answer when i asked why you you said mine is no good, you wrote :-

"the mk5/6 ones are actually half a circle not a quarter for a start".

who gives a flying fuck what an off the shelf mk5/6 quadrant is ie half moon, Mine wouldnt be a half moon would it as mine is an alloy copy of a MODDED mk5/6 quadrant ie one which has had the 10 teeth cut from it which, just to inform you, IS what the ap boys have done to theirs so therefore my alloy quadrant is the same shape as a MODDED mk5/6 quadrant which brings me nicely onto the other thing you said which was :-

"yours is the same shape as a standard mk3/4 item"

no shit sherlock, thats what a MODDED quadrant ends up looking like when the teeth have been cut off, which also means by that statement you agree mine ( alloy modified mk5/6 quadrant ) looks the same shape as a mk3/4 quadrant, none of which can therefore be described as a "quarter" circle cos clearly neither of them are anyway !!!!.

you need to get ya shapes etc up to speed mate if thats what you based your comment on that its the wrong quadrant, especially for someone whos commented on the modification and the prob people are having so much, can i suggest one of these to brush up your skills a bit ????



apart from your statement relying on the shape of it, what else can you see that would make you even think its no use to people using ap clutches ????. i cant see any that would of even confused someone.

i really didnt go to all this trouble to have people commenting on whether they think they know better than a me, who has a proven working quadrant, just by looking at a simple picture, i did this to help people..... end of.

this thread was originally created to gather interest, it wasnt a thread asking for advice on anything someone wanted to do but it seems like thats what its turned into which has meant the whole point of it, which to some people is the most important thing, has been either forgotten about or brushed to one side which is only going to result in one thing, not having some made.

mate ive read many comments from you on so many threads and i have no doubt youve been helpful to many forum users and youve obviously got a good grasp of knowledge, in principle, on this subject but as your prob not interested personally in having a alloy quadrant yourself then all i ask is you maybe think about your comments or answers first before posting coz they might have more of an affect than you may think and this thread, more than most, isnt one genuine interested forum users or myself wants to drift from the only important point, which is SORTING THE PROBLEM.

i hope any of the light humour above isnt taken too seriously, even though this is an important subject, i hope this thread isnt turning into a breeding ground for making enemies, were all here to help each other if we can, atleast thats why i joined passionford in the first place ?????.

all the best to you all

dave.

jayRS

my local doctors have still got one of them there for kids to play with
its funny watching kids get fingers trapped when they split it getting shapes back out

ok, enough hi jacking, back to the post

Chris69

doubt i need engineering advice from you andy i understand the principle of a larger radius but there is quite alot of movement with the mk5/6 pedal arrangement and no stupid ratchet self adjusting system so no need for the cuttouts for the cuttouts for the last time

SWITCHBLADE

iTrader: (5)

jayrs mate, exactly what i went into detail about, the most important thing is the original thread, not bickering or chatting bout a few mm between quadrants etc. if that has to be done then fine but only if the point of all this isnt forgotten lol.

dave.

jayRS

i spoke to my dad about these today, as hes a engineer too and has been for over 40 years, anyway theres different ways they can be made, and althouhg it would only be a few hours to make (wont be any cnc machines in my workshop) the cost to produce just one would be more than £40, taking in acount of time to set machines, make the job, cost of metal etc and over heads.
im too used to doing homers in break times with no cost to my self

anyway, £40 for one is good price, i think anyone that thinks its over the top should find someone to make one for less than £40, cos it wont happen unless someone does it as a favour or something.

so get ya names on the list people

Micky

Names on list

1.Micky


add from here!!!

SafeChav

You really are making a mountain out of a molehill on this, if you want to be patronising with your little pictures and telling me i need to brush on my shapes, then i am telling you that you need to learn the english language again.

LOOK at what i wrote (important bits in bold type and pretty colours to help you out)

ABOVE ALL theres no need to bring it down to this level, i haven't been sarcastic with you, i posted a response because im genuinely looking out for everyones best interests, if i am mistaken, as ive said i could well be, you could of just written that it would of been very easy.

That was quite a bitchy reply in my eyes......

Without even trying to completely show you up, where have i repeatedly, or even once insisted on this "cut out"

Andy-ywk

Names on list

1.Micky
2.Andy-ywk


add from here!!!

Hrsturbo

Names on list

1.Micky
2.Andy-ywk
3.Hrsturbo

Alex_86

iTrader: (2)

well lads

As Andy is saying... its NO point to make one that would be just like the mk4 one(just made of metal) and would not be any good for the people that has ap clutches.

so instead of attacking Andy verbally you should ask him for advice and make the right one, so we all could buy one... was not that the point with the hole topic in the first place???

SWITCHBLADE

iTrader: (5)

have you not read anything at all or are you just playing follow my leader, as ive pointed out it is the correct one, if you have a modified one yourself youll know its the same shape as a mk 4 one when its been modified, also weve been over this already, its obviously a misunderstanding as andy said " unless im mistaken " which prob meant he thought it was a standard one without the increased radius.

i can see why it was said but i can assure you its the correct one and if you bother reading other peoples comments youll know that others are using either plastic ones currently or even one off items made from alloy, dont you think these people are more experienced to say its not the right one when comparing it to theres and not just a picture ????, its being used currently for the reason it was made and its perfect.

theres no advice to ask off anyone, i know what size its supposed to be, ive had modded mk 5/6 ones that have broke on me, ive been through the fitting process a few times and ive checked the alloy one against the measurements that are needed. how much more evidence do you want or are you still going to make judgements by a picture without any measurements on display ????.

but your the exact reason i was annoyed, you was first in line to agree with andy when he thought it could be the mk 4 item so me saying that comments like that can damage the point of this thread and maybe turn people off buying one is entirely justified. do you really think i went through 6 weeks of f@cking about after i had hunted around for one then getting quotes etc and looking for the best prices i could find to help you lot out to then try selling you the wrong item ????.

heres a suggestion to all that doubt its correct, go find someone who will make one for you yaself, and remember, i didnt have to leave my car off the road when i purchased my alloy one, i could of just fitted it and laughed at others who have them when they break on them but no, ive tried to help the best i can but sometimes that just isnt enough is it for some people.

im not arguing anymore, this has turned out to be more trouble than its worth, i said previously to get back to the point of the tread as thats the most important thing and not to forget why were here but its still happening.

have fun.

dave

Alex_86

iTrader: (2)

Well first off all

I haven read to the whole topic! As i don bother doing it. as it was just arguing. Did just see what andy wroth, then i did not read the rest that standing on pg 2 and 3. but i gone sit down and read it later

second I usually disagree with every thing Andy says

Third
If you could guarantee that i would fit i would happy buy 1... I may even order 3 of you, just have to talk too my mates.

and just making things clear
if it breaks or dont fit the ap clutches/alcon clutches or anything at all, i would come over to the UK and kick your ass


and one more thing, surly you should stop being that negative to everyone that is asking questions, people just dont wont buy something that would not fit

SafeChav

That was much simpler was it not!

indeed a misunderstanding on my part which i myself had doubts about, so fair enough, and for everyone watching the thread who isn't sure what to believe now, this will be the reliable solution for your car!