ECOS95

I'm going to get a stage 1 fitted to my small turbo and I've been advised to get an uprated pump fited.What one does everyone recommend ? How much & where from ?
Cheers for any help.



Chris.

adamski frst

buy the best in tank item a walbro good for 400bhp just bought mine from MSD cost just over £100 if i remember...

Damo V

Walbro wont run 400 brake, not in an Ecos

But will be ok for stage I

IMO you need a Bosch 023 and fitting kit incase you go bigger in the future

see this

https://passionford.com/forum/viewto...ighlight=bosch

yrkesman

Why doesn't Walbro run 400bhp? The GSS341 model should flow ~170L/h with 12V and with 5bar pressure, why isn't this enough for 400bhp in cosworth? That should be enough (theoretically) for 4pcs of 700cc injectors I would like some explanation since I have the Walbro pump.

Dave Henshall

and loads of evos run the 255l/h walbro pump with 400+ hp, there are 2 versions of teh 255 pump, a high and low pressure one its the high pressure one u want

yrkesman

And that's the one I got. It would be nice that when people give advices here, they state at the same time where the information is from (not just a "pub talk"), because many people use the information given here.

adamski frst

i have the GSS340 is that the low pressure??

Cozzie Bhoy

Fitted a Bosch uprated to my escoz recently. Mike Rainbird (07771912291) was cheapest around . LOL

yrkesman

Which Bosch and how much? When I bought the Walbro one it cost me around 75£

yrkesman

Walbro GSS340, GSS341, and GSS342 are 255 lph high-pressure models.

adamski frst

good man was gonna say i spoke to MSD when ordering and i'm sure they told me its good for 400bhp

Dave Henshall

yep, mine is the gss340 also

had the same one in my evo, the in in the escos is quieter than the one in the evo i have to admit..

yrkesman

I know that one finnish guy uses Walbro 255L/h pump in his 200SX and he has dyno proved 511bhp so the fuel pump shouldn't be that bad

ECOS95

Cheers for all the advice.

Chris.

Damo V

i said in an ECos NOT a 200sx

Franco

iTrader: (2)

Try taking your car for Harvey to set up on a Walbro Get a Bosch one, they're the same price!

Also i've had other tuners tell me Walbro are crap............

Up to you at the end of the day, but i'll listen to Harvey TBH.......Whatever evos/scoobys are running...

DaveEscos

walbro.. pmsl

ive just booted mine off on ebay for £140!


went with a bosch

Franco

iTrader: (2)

Stop it.......................

140 notes......One born every minute!

Dave Henshall

i dont really see how the same pump can perfrom diferently in different cars if it has a good (low volt drop) electrical supply as opposed to a different pump which is fitted in much the same way, the walbro is a direct uprated replacement of the orignal poor one as fitted std,

im not saying that the bosch one isnt anybetter, only bear in mind that the old bosch ones are getting on to a 20 year old design.

compare on this pic ...



for a stg 3 cossie running greens, with the injectoers at 80% duty cycle - (80% of 382 cc/min , x 4 cylinders = just over 1.2 litres a minute.)

the walbro graph assuming a volt drop to 12 volts, at 75psi fuel (matched to 1.5 bar held boost) can flow 45 gallons per hour, (= 216 litres per hour = 3.6 litres per minute) roughly 3 times the ammount of flow needed and at the right pressure...... so..... someone please correct my maths if its wrong

Dave Henshall

ovbiously if you were running 8 greys at 503cc each per min = 3.2 litres per min on 80% duty - which is still within the capability BUT getting close, and maybe a little too close, and thats asuming the same pressure to match 1.5 bar held boost, with 8 greays i'd expect a shed load more boost so yes then it would fall flat on its arse.

Damo V

I think you will find its not so much what they have been "Flow tested" at but whether they CAN flow that ammount continuously

Dave Henshall

as in they get lazy with age...?

Damo V

more along the lines of less efficient as they get warmer/work continuosly??

Dave Henshall

and these are actual findings, not pub talk

Damo V

I presume, the "actual" findings are those of melted engines

Simon Day

I was told by 2 very well respected tuners - only go for bosch, though they are much harder to fit and you need a separate fitting kit.

A 044 bosch should be good for 350bhp...
And as Damo V has said ( and from what I have seen - he does not miss a trick!) a 023 bosch is required for more bhp.....

-being new to the game, I would rather take advice from people that have the experience than learn the hard way!!!!

Dave Henshall

of course, im not professing to know all about pumps, only what i have tried in several applications with good results, as im only running stg 3 though, the walbro will be more than up to it, obviosly if i was goning to go onward and upward with the power i would go for the proper bosh setup with twin pumps, swirl pots and new fuel lines.

july1

iTrader: (1)

The 044 is an external pump which as a better flow rate than the 023.
For the escort (in tank pump) the alternative for bosch are 023 and 003. I never found the rating of the 003 and not all tuners agree on which one is the best but what I'm sure is that for a stage 1 or 2 both of them will do the job

but a stage 1 the walbro should also be fine, cheaper and easyer to fit!
so if you really don't thing to upgrade more than this your car don't wast your time and money!
anyway to get more power on your T25 you'll have make a lot a modification and in most case it's clever to sell it to swap for a T34

Dave Henshall

ive been reading up... it seems the walbro can drop off is pressure when supplying fuel at over 100psi, i hold my hands up whereas the bosch can still run happily ot well over this continiously, but as above for my setup, its still well within its limits.

Damo V

tgsday, As july1, suggests, you cant fit an 044 to your car (well you could) but an 023 or 003 will be a little easier I had a 003 in my car and recently replaced it for an 023 when I fitted ny new engine

Simon Day

Damo - after reading july 1 's reply I rang Mike Rainbird and had a chat with him this morning, as you said the 044 is no good unless you use another pump with it. Pity because I bought one off ebay thinking I could use it.... I think the I will have to buy the 025!
Thanks again for the advice.

Anonymous

...i have an MSD stage 3 around 340bhp apparently and i have just now got past the rev limiter of 4k due to no lamda..all sorted now though ....my next stage before i thrash in the higher gears is see what my intake is flowing like as i have no idea wether its std or uprated...i would assume uprated as it was a stage 3 when i bought the car BUT assumption is the mother of all fuck ups..ROFL.

..i do hope it is uprated though as i dont relish changing the pump just yet..i guess if it aint i will just run lo boost of around 16psi until i put the proper engine in

Some specs as i da man

003------130 - 200 lt/hr @ 5bar
023------220 lt/hr @ 6.5bar
044------200 lt/hr MIN @ 5bar (for comparison)

Basicaly the 003 is good for around 380bhp on a YB providing all wiring is good etc....the 023 good for 500 plus bhp....The 044 has a MINIMUM of 200lt/hr which makes this pump the bollocks....certainly ok for 600bhp!!!!

cosworthbg

what about the 909,is it any good,what power could it support?

graham c

iTrader: (5)

hi matey i have one of them feul pumps spare as ive fitted bosch? its done 1000 miles i fitted it and then woz told it wos not up 2my power safley but ideal 4 std 1

july1

iTrader: (1)

I've designed a part to weld on the fuel pump assembly to fit 003 or 023 (they have the same shape)
This will cost about £10-15 to by machined by any company in 316L ss.
If you don't have TIG you'll have to pay some more for the welding
You 'll have to cut the pipe inside to place the pump at the correct height in the tank so no way back.
This part will avoid the need of a braided line between the pump and the filter (ie you keep original plastic lines)
The point is I don't know if I could give it as I don't want to mess with the dealers here.
My drawing would be free of course

red october

GGR group A on mine - seems absolutely fine

Damo V

july1, Thats quite a good idea, though I just had a bit of hose...

obiously as you say cut to the correct length so the pump sits at the right height in the tank

july1

iTrader: (1)

yes but even if you put some sand paper on the pipe I wouldn't be happy with a hose.. and as the acces isn't easy I made my welding bung.
another point is the height in the tank the bottom of the pump should about 0 to 5 mm above the end of the return pipe (to let enough clearance between the suction and the floor) and it let not much 'meat' for the hose..
But I already saw this way of fitting it so I would say it's up to you..

Franco

iTrader: (2)

Well Ford seemed happy using a rubber hose

But then what do they know!.............PS mines fitted the same as Damo's

july1

iTrader: (1)

What do I know and what Ford did by the way is that when you fit a hose on a pipe you'll need a boss (I'm not sure on the word I mean an extantion on the diameter) to avoid the hose to move back!
Obviously this will remain on the part that will be removed to shorten the pipe
That's why I changed the type of fitting
It's possible to work on the pipe to restore the boss but I found more clever to weld my stuff.

If you loose the pump in the better case you'll have to pull the car until your house, in the worth if you have a leak when driving hard you can simply melt a piston... now you do what you want and you can try to save some money but keep in mind that we are talking about few pounds (nothing compared to the price of the pump and I'm not even talking about an engine rebuilt..)

As I said everybody does what he wants, I just give an option