what do i need to do to my standard loom to run carbs on an xe?

 

afaik and carbs aint my strong point

you dont use any of the xe loom, you need to use a dizzy from a 1600 oldskool carb cav

use the loom from it aswell that dizzy is adjustible to adjust timing.

or you can keep the standard dizzy and run a ecu to control it like a mbe or something similar

 

Megajolt?

 

could do any of the ingnition ecu's

 

Thats the only one I know

 

thanks for the answers guys,i was watching this but i got outbid at the last min as usual

http://cgi.ebay.co.uk/ws/eBayISAPI.d...EWA:PIC&ih=016

i didnt think it would go as high as that,its one of the oldest types! would have done the job tho..

 

You need to bin the entire loom, and fit a stand alone ignition system or a dizzy.

Carbs are SHITE though, get throttle bodies instead!

 

Nothing wrong with carbs as long as they are setup. My old pinto was sweet on 45's.

More gains to be had using tb's but I've not personally had a issue with a well setup carbed engine before

 

if it was a road/track car i would have put boddies on but i'm trying to keep the costs as low as poss and its a track only car so the carbs might not be to unreliable.

 

Fuel economy on a TB setup is far better, as is transient fuelling, with petrol prices how they are at the moment, thats a big deal.
Its also FAR easier to get the WOT fuelling correct throughout the entire rev range on TB's you can have it literally perfect everywhere, with carbs you cant.

Carbs work well for a peak BHP figure, but they are massively more compromised at other load points.

 

Carbs will be fine for the track, I'd prefer tb's on a road car but I got on fine with carbs.

My mates carbed Astra xe goes VERY well

 

Carbs are ok for on track, but more expensive to setup than TB's for most people (assuming you arent a webber expert yourself)

There is just NO advantage to carbs over TB's that im aware of, other than lower fuel pressure which is useful in a banger car, which is the ONLY place carbs belong.

If there was some gigantic difference in cost I could understand people wanting them, but these days there just isnt!

 

I agree about fuel costs but its something that doesn't even cross my mind when it comes to track cars.

Been out in a few carbed cars before that were mentally fast on track and didn't once miss a beat

 

Ł160 for a full setup off Pete Baldwin for carbs, the car was faultless after too. Jaws with the Astra had his done there too and was really happy with the service and costs.

2k for tb's plus mapping VS 1k max inc setup for carbs is quite a difference, especially if your on a budget

 

i was going to go with a set of jenveys like my brothers car but for a second hand set with all the stuff to get them on and running was Ł1500 + ,i think i should be able to get the 45's on and running for about Ł600.

i want to spend that 1k on other parts of the car.

 

2K for TB's gets you fully mappable ignition too, your 1K carb setup, whats that going to be running on? a 1600 dizzy and just keep retarding the entire curve till it doesnt pink?

Sorry but you are talking nonsense IMHO, to get the best out of a set of carbs, you need to be either on mappable ignition or at the very least start having a custom distributor sorted with the right stops and weights etc which costs as much as having the TB's mapped!

 

i like the way you think chip lol

 

why? do you have anything you can add from experience mate?

 

with the falling price of after market management tb's can be fitted for little cost imo

 

For 1k you could have mappable ignition with them.

I know what your saying but unless your extremely bothered about either fuel economy or low down driveability there is little point in spending the extra grand.

 

you dont have to go with a well known make of tb's to get good results they can be taken off a bike (gsxr 750-1000) ect and easely mated to a custom manifold for well under 1k imo Mate

 

thats what i was thinking ,i'm glad of all the input tho chip

i just dont see me having to even spend a grand with the carbs but the tb's go for VERY strong money,even second hand, Ł2-300 quid less the new just sometimes!(with ecu n loom).

 

A good set of tb's and management will still set you back between a grand and Ł1500.

As Dovboy has pointed out his setup will cost him around Ł600, once its setup the only thing I ever had to do with mine was re balance the carbs which is a 10 min job and can be done yourself.

 

Its not an extra grand though in reality, you are quoting bottom end secondhand prices on the carbs and everything ascociated with them, and new prices on the TB's

Sit down and do an accurate realistic comparison of ALL the costs, and then come back to me and tell me its still a grand apart to do the job properly in each instance!

And like Clarkey says, if you go bike TB's and megasquirt and map it yourself you can do it for LESS than on shitty old carbs!

 

TBH anyone I have known who has done that hasn't made the numbers, now thats either there mapping skills or the size of the tb's they used.

Best TB setup is any set of Jenveys, loads to choose from, MBE or DTA seem to be the 2 most commonly used ecu's in motorsport and people do make the numbers.

 

if i could have got them for a grand with loom and ecu a would have snapped their hand off!

 

Brand new carbs Ł500
Brand new inlet Ł100 or less
New linkage Ł75

Leaves you Ł325 to sort the rest of it, and thats if you do it all new.

TB setup new is over 2k, by a fair amount too once you add all the other bits so I'll still say there is about a grand between the 2 setups if purchased new.

 

I recently sold a setup for Ł1500, that was Jenveys, MBE 967, volvo injectors, ITG filter, 90mm trumpets, FSE FPR, coilpack.

Prices of the tb's seem to change with the wind, I was struggling to get on offers above 1k at one point

 

1500 all in a realistic price for a complete secondhand TB setup IMHO, in fact ive seen them go for 1200 in the past. On a standard XE the basemap is actually really good if you are getting a pukka setup, there is little point getting it mapped at all providing you can at least det check it and whack a wideband on to check the fuelling

Carbs you are looking at 600 for the carbs and manifold, then you need mappable ignition on top of that which is going to be best part of 300 quid including the loom so within a few hundred quid of what you can get the TB setup for, and on the carbs you WILL need a setup unless you get mega lucky and buy a complete setup off a standard XE thats already just been recently setup, which is actually relatively unlikely.

The cost difference is next to naff all in reality!

 

325 will not get you:
mappable ignition + loom
Rolling road time to setup the carbs (you WILL need this if buying new IMHO)
Rolling road time to setup the mappable ignition
Filters


By the time you have done all that, you will be practically at the 1500 you just sold a COMPLETE setup for.

And on the carbs you are going to need a suitable fuel pump not just use the standard one like on TB's

 

i thought you meant you could get tb's loom ecu for 1k secondhand,my bad

 

i have the 45's already,they are from a c20xe.

them and inlet manifold for Ł285.

 

Your quoting new vs used Chip.

I sold a set of 48's off a xe with manifold, filters and linkage for Ł500 delivered, you need a Filter King and thats about it, Jaws still runs the stock xe pump on his setup although a facet red top is peanuts new and not a lot 2nd hand.

It very much depends what you want from the engine, in Dovboys case carbs WILL work fine

 

Jonboy, im quoting new for the rolling road time yes as I dont know anywhere that does it secondhand for carb setups and mapping ignition

Bottom line is you are looking at about a grand to do it properly on carbs secondhand, and about 1500 on TB's, and you are looking at about 1500 new on carbs and 2000 on TB's

And thats if you go for "branded" TB's if you are prepared to get a bit inventive with a bike set and cheap management, you can bring it in for the same or less than you can with carbs.


Your resale value on the 1500 quid TB setup 2 years later is 1500 quid, thats the best thing about it on a standard XE, no mapping costs needed, and no depreciation.

So cost of ownership over a 2 year period = zero IMHO

 

PS

I do agree that carbs will work fine though.

 

jonny,all you have to do now is find me a cheap ecu and loom mate

 

ford fair 2007 fiesta turbo won the fastest frount wheel drive off the top of my head and was running off a megasquirt ecu when built right megasquirt works fine yea i no they dont have varnished bords sealed casses ect ect but the ecu its self works and has proven good results.

as for the tb's there are alot of bike tb's that compaired to there more expensive after market tb's dont realy differ that much ok yea thay will need work to fit but size wize i mean

 

Chip: You were comparing the new costs against the setup I sold. Also to be fair there was quite a difference in Ollys base map to the complete map so the base maps are not ideal although I will admit they are a very good starting point

Dovboy: If I hear of an ecu I'll let you know

 

my plan to keep costs down is ,45's on and running,cams,sbd manifold,home made big bore exhaust,verniers and thats it! if i can get 190-200bhp from that i would be very happy.

 

Just to go wildly off at a tangent, why not a LET?

Will do more power than you want for less money than you are going to spend, and will be better on economy too, not to mention will last longer as you arent revving the tits off it and you wont need to start pulling the sump off to fit rod bolts like you need to on the carbs.